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Post by vincent on Dec 5, 2011 13:55:54 GMT
Hi, I recently purchased the AKG Q701(for a decent price). My current setup is a DAC/Amp Fubar IV Plus,my music source is PC/NB mostly FLAC.I also have a Koss porta pro and AKG K518 LE. When i listen to the Q701 on my fubar i still question my self if the foobar has enough power to drive the Q701s. I wasn't initially planing to buy the K/Q 701s but since i got a good price I jumped in knowing that my dac/amp might not be the right one for them. In my country I do not have the opportunity to compare it with other dac/amps out there if it's the case.Now im aware that i have to burn them in, but still i struggle if i should get a decent amp for them. I've done a lot of reading on Head-fi then i came across this forum, but i still can't decide.
I was choosing between the Meier audio Jazz and the MF M1 HPA but found some negative opinions on these devices that they are not worth the price they sell for. After that i found out about the Neco Soundlab bossfetV2.1 and thought this might be the answer.
I would really appreciate if anyone could give me some advice. If it's really the case that i have to get an additional amp or is the fubar sufficient or not. If it isn't i would appreciate any amp advice.I'm not focused on just these three amps so any recommendations are welcome.
Sorry for my bad English.
Thank you
Vinc
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2011 15:43:57 GMT
Hi Vinc,
Welcome to the forum. The AKG 701 (Q 701) greatly benefits from amping especially those amps that have a high (around 120 Ohm) output reistance. Unfortunately not many sellers include this output resistance in their specs.
The Neco's, just like any other C'moy are low Ohmic in general so eventhough being good amps not optimal for Q701, at least if you want it to sound optimal. Of course there will be plenty who say it does sound good but probably haven't heard what the proper output resistance for these particular headphones can do.
In the end it's your ears that will have to decide.
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Post by vincent on Dec 6, 2011 7:45:47 GMT
Hi and thanks I did read about the 120ohm standard but didn't know the K/Q701 was one of those. It would be nice to have some feedback of someone who did hear it and i think i read some posts here addressing this issue. I guess for now ill have to choose one amp and eventually get an adapter for the output and compare it.
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toad
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Post by toad on Dec 6, 2011 19:55:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2011 21:57:10 GMT
One amp that I enjoyed with the K701 was the Panda. It had an output impedance of 120 ohms since it had enough power to work at that. That's something where other amps show their lack of power unfortunately. Many that are set at low output impedance don't have enough power to drive at higher impedances so you crush the dynamics and the headphones can sound edgy to say the least.
For me, it was pretty important to get the impedance to 120 so that the sound was slightly less toppy and 'ringing' i the upper register.
I went on with the K701 for quite a long time, but never really managed to feel at home with it in the end.
I'm happier with the K601 which is probably an inferior headphone but more pleasant for me to listen to. Out of all of the headphones that I have, I'd say that this one is closest to 'neutral' whatever that is on a headphone.
For me, the K701 just tips into the treble to far whereas the K601 is less edgy and probably less 'flashy' sounding because of it's frequency response.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Dec 7, 2011 2:07:03 GMT
Hi there and welcome to RG. Actually, for anybody serious enough on HPs, they must have an arsenal of amps so that matching to your HP stash becomes easier. Don't need to be expensive stuffs. So amps arsenal should include a: 1) Transistor Class A amp. 2) Fet/Mosfet Class A amp. 3) Tube Class A amp. 4) Hybrid Class A amp. The only constant is Class A and must have at least 0.3 Watt at the HP impedance you use. Higher wattage the better as the music slam will be more apparent and there will be even lesser constriction of dynamics. I'm sure our dear Prof Frans will have no objection to the arsenal variety, Class A and higher wattage.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2011 6:57:29 GMT
Vincent has a Q701 and is looking for names/types of amps as a recommendation.
In HIS case, when it is the only headphone he has an amp with 100 to 120 Ohm output resistance might give the best results to most ears, regardless of topology IMO. Tubes will ADD nice distortion (to techs, warmth musicality to others) if his wants this. SS will add little to nothing if well designed/applied
Simply buying a low Ohmic amp and later adding a resistor to come to 120 Ohm is, as Ian correctly points out, NOT the best way. Simply because to drive a low Ohmic headphone through a 120 Ohm resistor it needs to have a large output voltage swing if you want it to sing. Low Ohmic amps simply cannot do that as their voltage swing is too low, except for some of the more expensive amps perhaps.
Of course you can also drive the Q701 with low Ohmic amps and will sound excellent to many. Those that have heard low-Ohmic and high Ohmic amps and appreciate the finer quisine may end up choosing for the slightly different presentation of the higher Ohmic one. a tad more lows and somewhat less agressive highs (also as Ian already said).
so IF you feel the Q701 should have a bit more lows and find the highs to be 'feisty' you could alter that with a higher output resistance amp. That's the rocket science behind it... the ears and personal preference of Vincent should be the deciding factor. recommendations can only be that made from the viewpoint/preference/experience of other individuals that are very likely to have a different taste.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Dec 7, 2011 7:16:57 GMT
Oh, with the 4 types in the arsenal, all ohmic will be covered. Also, all sound will be covered as well. So just change the HPs and enjoy if you are one who likes changing HPs. Of course, if you are not and loyaly and devotedly to Q701, take Prof Frans' advice seriously. But so far I don't seem to come across many only on one HP here. Anyone, please raise your hands (words ) here.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2011 18:06:59 GMT
Actually Vincent, one headphone is quite limiting in terms of sound for different genres and recordings. I enjoy the K701 and K601 as an alternative to the Senn HD 600 and HD650. They are kind of opposite in sound, so for stuff that needs a big heft in the bass, the HD650 sings. The same music doesn't sing the same on a K701. However, the K701 sings on acoustic guitar, harpsichord, vocal in away that the Senn can't. Midway - I seriously like the Beyer DT990 pro. So for me, from treble to bassy: K701 - K601 - HD600 - DT990 - HD650. This set all get increasingly bassy with less sting in the treble. That way, you can match the sound of the headphone to what you're listening to. It's a great way to get the most from your music collection. (and I have many others) I find the K701 very tiring after a while in terms of frequency response so if you are going to use only them, I seriously listen to Frans' recommendation of 120 ohms. He REALLY knows what he's talking about and he is normally right, I'm afraid!!
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funk1969
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Post by funk1969 on Dec 8, 2011 1:40:19 GMT
My AKG's (K240 DF, K500, K400) and SRC2496 are a good combination. You can adjust gain and volume on the device and use it as a DAC at the same time. Given it's cheaper as a product than a dedicated headphone amplifier it's a good option...
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Post by vincent on Dec 8, 2011 11:48:32 GMT
thanks guys for the great input I took Prof Frans advice seriously and ordered Necos bossfetV2.1 with the OpAmp upgrade - I figured this would be a good start. It should arrive sometime next week. I wasn't really too keen on paying 500+ Euro for a HPA. Im curious on how will the Q701 sound with the neco mossfet amp despite being low ohmic. The higher ohmic amps are hard to find at least i didn't see any/many i know that the fiio E9 has a higher output but im not sure it its the right thing. Actually i now realized that the fubar wasn't the best choise to begin with. I should've gone with a separe dac and amp. Oh well I do learn mostly of my own mistakes which isn't something to brag about :s Anyways the neco will be my first pure amp so im looking forward to it As for the headphones, I actually was pending between the HD650 and the K701 but since i had the opportunity to get the Q701s i went for it. I listen to various types of music except hip-hop(not really my thing) so I'll definitely be getting a more bassier headphone like the HD650 or maybe some beyers as time passes. The Q701s are too bright with the fubar 4 (i guess the OPA2604 in fubar adds to this) i have and the bass is non present and by that i mean that i can't even feel the instruments in classical recordings... it's just flat. I'll try to replace the factory OPA2604 in the fubar with the LM4562 and see how it will work. But I'll do that after i burn the Q701 in. Oh, and there is the power supply which one can but for additional 120 Euros or so which will contribute to sound quality but i don't like this kind of marketing even thou other manufacturers in this price range do it. sigh.. i have no avatar >.>
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Dec 9, 2011 10:23:32 GMT
(i guess the OPA2604 in fubar adds to this) But BB OPAs are not known for bright and thin sound. In fact, the reverse. Problem somewhere else.
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Post by vincent on Dec 14, 2011 6:45:10 GMT
You're right. I think the fubar it self is a little bright and has quite allot of ssss in the voices when someone is singing. Today i received Necos bossfetV2.1. I pluged it on the fubar output. And what can I say... its... excellent . The difference is like night and day. The sharp heights are gone, the bass is finally there I'm really loving it, the music now has depth more clarity. When i compare it to he fubar its a like a different world. The sound from the fubar amp is really flat, with the neco i get a real in depth feeling. ATM cannot imagine how it would sound with a 120Ohm output amp, but as it is now its really satisfying and one day i hopefully will experience it so i can compare it. In the future i will replace the fubar with a decent dac, thats for sure btw did you guys notice that neco has a V3 portable up on Ebay already? It looks really impressive.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Dec 14, 2011 7:32:10 GMT
Congrats on the Necos bossfetV2.1 purchase. Just enjoy the sound for now. I'm sure you will be itching to "upgrade" again after settling down on this. But in the meantime just enjoy what you have and forget everything about upgrading. It's a never ending process I must say when we are into this.
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funk1969
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Post by funk1969 on Dec 14, 2011 11:48:15 GMT
Don't worry, music is soothing...
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Post by vincent on Dec 14, 2011 13:16:48 GMT
Congrats on the Necos bossfetV2.1 purchase. Just enjoy the sound for now. I'm sure you will be itching to "upgrade" again after settling down on this. But in the meantime just enjoy what you have and forget everything about upgrading. It's a never ending process I must say when we are into this. Thank you, will do. And thanks everyone for the great input.
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