ESKY Honey Bee CP3

[PinkFloyd]

OMG! This will probably be the shortest thread in the history of this place as I am bound to crash this thing into a tree (or animal)....

I was testing the controls with the canopy off (you have to remove the canopy to fit the battery) and everything was working but I couldn't get the throttle going.... I flicked a switch on the transmitter and it went APESHIT! spinning about the floor like crazy I flicked the switch again and it stopped (phew!).

Once I had realised what was what I put on a hat and a pair of safety glasses and held the Honey bee (VERY securely) with my left hand and gradually applied throttle..... JESUS H CHRIST, those blades spin fast and would slice the top of your head off! I didn't even "go" full revs as it was already pulling my arm upwards....

Ian, you are correct... this is maybe a tad too "ambitious" (and friggin' dangerous) for a total novice like me.... that thing is a "chopper" in the truest sense of the word.... you wouldn't want it making "face contact", I would imagine it could be quite nasty.

I think it may need a fair bit of calibration before it even gets off the ground but that seems quite easy to do according to the instructions (which are very good by the way).... if heli goes one way you turn the trimpot screw (on the helicopter) and if it is nose heavy you also trim on the 'copter itself.... also tells you how to balance the blades and a cornucopia of other "fine tuning" tweaks.

Straight out of the box I think it's pretty much calibrated in headless chicken mode and certainly not RTF mode unless we assume "RTF" means ready to fekk. The manual advises that an "experienced" pilot sets it up for you and all through reminds you that "this is NOT a toy".

The battery seems to be a bit of a PITA, you have to remove the canopy every time you recharge it and they also suggest removing the battery to recharge it (incase it goes on fire and torches the helicopter)...... I think I'm going to risk charging it "onboard" to hell with stripping the canopy off every 5 minutes. Not sure EXACTLY where to place the battery either.... the manual is a bit vague in that respect..... I will have to do a bit of googling.... the manual shows it sitting proud of the cradle but this seens a bit odd to me.... the velcro securing strip is also a bit "random" and fiddly.... I think a bit of tape would do a better job AND would be a lot lighter.

VERY early days, I can't really say anything about it as I haven't a clue but, all should become clear when I either A: manage to get it into the air or B: end up in the casualty department minus a scalp.

Ian, where do we get these flight simulator things? That may be a good idea.... get used to the controls on the computer before attempting to avoid crashing outdoors

A few pics: (will upload some under the bonnet pics tomorrow)

[PinkFloyd]

By the way.... the controller is nice quality, lovely smooth action to the "sticks" and more "options" than an Turk in a Hareem.... normal mode, crazy mode, not so crazy mode, trim this, trim that, throttle curve settings, mode settings..... this is a steep learning curve and I think "steep" may be more enjoyable than "RTF"..... Being a bit "OCD" I tend to master things quite quickly and then dump them.... this should keep me occupied and DETERMINED to get the hang of it for quite some time I never give up on anything until I have mastered it.

[Deleted]

There is a simulator out there Mike, but it's not cheap. Also, I imagine it would need a pretty fast PC.

That's why I was suggesting the msr or even the 120 sr. They give a taste of what you've now got!!

The other thing you could do is stick the beginners feet on it, but they do affect the way it flies.

The rotation on the floor may disappear when you get it into the air. That's what you have to do with the MSR. It tends to flip off to the left if you piss around on the floor, so you have to hold it with right aileron. (That's quite common with Single blades) However, if you stay on the floor trying to hold it with aileron, it'll topple and the blades will hit the floor.

It could be trimmed and you're just not used to its characteristics Mike.

Single blades are feckers in comparison to coaxials.

I'm not sure about the flight simulators either in that you don't get real life practise. With the MSR, it reacts with the ground effect/furniture/wind puffs so you learn to correct and be subtle in how you do it!!

It may be cheaper to crash an MSR or 120 SR which is more like an outdoor heli.

If you have a field close by with longish grass, that could help in that the heli will get a relatively soft landing.

Getting off the ground is a nerve job. You have to give it enough revs to twitch on the ground so airstreams are set up and flowing around and then give it an even 'up' on the throttle and keep going once it lifts. Let it go up and then ease off when you get to a reasonable/comfortable height for you. However, don't let go of that aileron and yaw. It'll slip and slide and as a beginner, you will tend to over compensate so it'll go berserk.

Not to mention winds and puffs of air outside.

You're right, it is very dangerous if you're not careful. It also will move extremely fast. Even the MSR will go like a rocket if you don't watch out. However, if you get it up in the sky and push the forward thrust hard or bank at the same time, you'll get a shock at its speed.

It's not easy, Mike. Even the MSR has taken me a week to get properly under control. It's a bit like learning to ride a bike. You're not sure what you do to balance a bike, but eventually, you're doing it without thinking. That's what happens with these types of heli.

I was convinced that the MSR was totally unsteerable on the first day. I just couldn't hold it still and it shot all over the place. Actually, I thought it had a fault. I also thought that it wasn't trimmed. However, patience and practise slowly got it to behave and I realised that it was me.

Once I started to vaguely fly under control, I started to move very slowly and watch what it was doing and then learned what it does on forward motion after you stop. In the MSR's case, it does a slight uphill tilt and then starts to fly backwards and the goes forward again. So I learned to stop, wait for it to start the backward motion and then push the forward very slightly to stop it and it then goes into hover. In other words use it's characteristics. I even use that pendulum to get forward motion without throttle and then push forward when it reaches the end of its natural travel.

If you get to turns ....... on left turns, push forwards. On right turns, go reverse. (Very slightly) It stops you getting into pendulums. The heli has a natural tendency to turn left and then go backwards so you need to push it forward. Equally, on right turns, it'll have a natural tendency to go forwards and gain a lot of speed, so you go reverse top counteract this.

You can't do what you do on a coaxial and just use left/right rudder. It'll do a slide and can easily become uncontrollable.

To start, try just getting off the ground and let it drop back again in short bursts. It will take a lot of time.

or ........ practise with MSR, Mike.

BTW - It looks quality to me. I've seen the battery arrangement in the Bees. It does look dodgy but the motor is powerful and it will have less effect on a bigger heli in comparison to MCX. How about a rubber band to hold the battery?

Ian

[PinkFloyd]

If you get to turns

That reminds me of Del Boy on the jet ski

I hope I can turn it Ian.... I would be pretty pissed off if it flew away and disappeared into the sunset

[PinkFloyd]

[PinkFloyd]

Blimey.... a bit tight!

[PinkFloyd]

Training balls on their way! I want to learn how to fly this puppy.... first step will be taking off, hovering at 3 feet and landing.

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ESKY-HONEYBEE-CP3-HB-V2-TRAINING-KIT-SET-EK1-0221-/150631696303?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item23125947af

[toad]

I don't know if this is any use to you guys but there is a very clever sony playstation one game called RC Stunt copter that runs nicely under emulation on PC. It's more or less a simulator and I've seen people comment that it started them off on RC copters.

I've no idea how it compares to real RC copters as I've never flown one but I do know it's damn hard. It includes a comprehensive training section.

It runs nicely under emulation on a PC.

The only downside is the trainer is a sarcastic american.

Review here uk.gamespot.com/ps/driving/rcstuntcopter/review.html?tag=summary%3Bread-review

Link to 2nd Review which includes the following quote.

"Taking into consideration the fact that Shiny was after was the true tactile "feel" of flying a radio-controlled helicopter, I would have to say that I think Shiny got it right. Especially since I have had one or two occasions to "attempt" flying one of those expensive little toys, compliments of long time friend Victor Santillo (the neighborhood rich kid). Having the insight and forethought to realize that the Dual Shock-with its two analog sticks-closely emulates a real R/C controller, Shiny was able (after years of development) to derive at a physics model that very closely simulates the true physics found in R/C Copter flying."

uk.psx.ign.com/articles/160/160451p1.html

Vid here

[Deleted]

I hope I can turn it Ian.... I would be pretty pissed off if it flew away and disappeared into the sunset

Turning with a single blade isn't like a coaxial Mike. At first, you'll be grateful to get it in the air and hovering (kind of) still!! (I have flown one - but the fixed wing version) To start, you need to learn take off, hover and down.

If you turn left, the heli may veer backwards at the same time. If you turn right, it'll veer forwards. You have to compensate all of the time.

On take off, it'll try to go sideways and also spin. With coaxial, it's a comfortable up/down, left/right, forward/back without one affecting the other too much.

With a single blade, one movement affects another and it's those that you have to 'learn' and use so that you're not fighting it all of the time.

You'll get it if you have OCD!!!! (like me and music)

Ian, the simulators have to be set up for real life helis so you learn their characteristics. It's very complex and you literally learn the heli that you fly. They're all quite different and have different types of flight problems/characteristics.

The one Mike has is very close to the real thing except you're not sat inside it, so you are quite remote from it and it needs an awful lot of skill to control it!!

Ian

[PinkFloyd]

First casualty Was out in the workshop (plenty of space) got a bit bold and tried to turn her round...... she smacked right into the lawnmower

Both wooden blades written off and one of my training balls (and securing stick) has disappeared.... the blades have kind of snapped at the edges so absolutely CRAP for a beginner who is likely to have a few scrapes.

Thing is, it wasn't even going fast, it just veered over to the right a bit, made contact with the lawnmower and the friggen blades were toast.... seems that was the only damage so not too bad.

I'm going to get a pair of the plastic "extreme" blades and also 10 x CP2 blades (£6.66 for 10 and they fit the CP3 apparantly!).....

Probably a good thing that the blades absorbed the blow, if they were more robust then it may have been nastier.

This is one BITCH of a thing to fly!

[Deleted]

It's a steep learning curve, Mike. I'm sorry to hear you whacked the blades. Maybe take it to a field with longish grass?

Single blades veer off all over the place on the floor and settle higher up. The trouble is, you can't do it in slow motion. Take off is at normal speed (or faster) Slow speed doesn't work for a beginner because of the ground and drift.

Also, I'm not sure how the beginner's kit affects its characteristics to be honest. Although it's safe, it could be teaching you to to compensate for things that won't happen when you take it off. I noticed on You Tube videos how poor the flight was with most helis having those kits on so I wouldn't stay with it for too long, Mike.

Sure you don't want to practise with MSR? It gives a flavour of how to lift the single blade off the ground. There's a technique to it. Or the other one that Sam spoke of - it's cheaper.

With the msr, I rev until it starts to lift and then I raise the throttle evenly but quite quickly to get it in the air. The second it leaves the ground, I give it a tiny twitch right on the aileron and let go as I rev a bit harder until it reaches a good height and then I ease off.

The thing is, you have to analyse what the heli is doing and learn compensations for each tiny movement that you see. I noticed on your video that it was going off left as you rev'ed so you may have to push right as it goes up.

At least it's just blades, but maybe a cheap SB heli would be cheaper than repairs in the long run? It took a week for me to get a grip of the MSR. I was considering the 120 SR but thought, sod it, I'll go Honey Bee because it's cheaper.

Now you have me thinking they're killers to get up in the sky!!

Ian

[PinkFloyd]

I've ordered ten CP2 blades from Hong Kong (£6.99!) and apparantly they will fit on the CP3 so 69p per blade isn't bad at all. I glued the CP3 blades last night and will stick some filler in today so at least they should be ok until the replacements arrive..... it will give me the confidence to crank the throttle and get it airborn.... if I smash the blades again, doesn't really matter.

Some say the wood are better as they basically absorb the blow whereas plastic or carbon would just keep whipping round oblivious..... some also say that plastic blades on the CP3 are a lot better for control (less agility) so maybe better practicing with plastic before going down the precise "wood" route?.

I agree about those training balls, they seemed to change the characteristics and I blame them for the crash The beauty of these things is the blade "span".... if you're going to hit anything it's the blades that will take the damage.... so I think a few spare sets of blades is a must for your V2 Ian because you, sure as hell, are going to have a few smashes..... I manages to wreck my blades and the damned thing was only 6 inches off the floor! I dread to think what would have happened if it whacked into a tree at 70mph

Gonna pop out and see if I can patch the blades up with some filler and snadpaper.... will keep me going until the new blades arrive.

[Deleted]

That's a point, Mike. You could use resin or fibre glass to patch the wood blades up. They are probably a lot more precise because perhaps they don't flex as much as plastic? I notice that the blades on my MSR change shape as they speed up. They bend upwards from the tip so that in the air, they look kind of like a 'smile'. They perform fast though, but then it's much smaller.

Another thing I noticed, which you may get with the tail rotor in the air, is that they aren't 'precise'. you can trim until you're blue in the face and get it perfect, rev up and the tail sends it slightly round. I tried other tail blades but they're all the same. Apparently, this is more precise on your type of rotor so may not be such a worry. I found that a compromise is needed between hover and straight ahead flight with revs, or else the heli veers off to one side at speed.

You can get 'Superblades, Mike. They're slower but give a better hover. Also susceptible to damage on crash but they may make your Bee settle down enough for you to learn some flying skills before you go on to faster blades.

The rotors can affect the speed of it quite a lot. I think you're right, the rotors are going to take loads of smacks.

The kit will tend to pull it around so if you fly with forward motion, the kit will lag behind and pull the heli back. It could create a kind of 'opposite' motion to the heli. I wouldn't keep the kit for too long or else you'll 'learn' bad habits and be back to square one when you take it off.

You're making me wonder how I'll fare with the V2 now. I think I'll do what I did with the MSR and just do small steps at a time. That's how I avoided smacking the MSR although I had some close calls. I think I've learned some useful flying skills from it though so I may be able to control the V2 with a bit of luck. I think coming from the MCX must be one helluva shock. It must feel like you're driving a rocket.

I still wonder if it would be useful for you to go back a stage to something more docile, Mike. In the long run, it could save you repairs and more money.

Hopefully, the rotors have taken all of the 'smack' and not sent a bolt down into the mechanics. That could affect its flight. I noticed that your MCX is a bit 'bouncy' and that could be the 'smacks'.

Anyway, I hear that the Superblades slow it down but hover better.

Ian

[PinkFloyd]

The glue has set (overnight) and I have patched up the missing lumps with car body filler.... they look pretty good.... have sanded and given a coat of quick drying varnish so will report back.

I throttled down immediately so, hopefully, no damage to the control gear.... the fragile "wood" has taken the blow and absorbed the shock.... probably easier to fly with carbon blades but more likely to damage other parts if they take the blow.... they won't break but parts further down the chain may.

Have a look round the forums re: the V2 Ian..... lots of cheap "aftermarket" parts on ebay.... you can also fit the SR blades onto the CP3 so PLENTY of alternatives.

[PinkFloyd]

Rattling like mad now... obviously the blades are way out of balance after the crash..... runs as smooth as silk without the blades fitted so I assume it must be the repaired blades that are causing it to vibrate like a nutter?

[Deleted]

Mike, do the blades fold up when you put it in the box? If they do, make sure that they flap around. If you do the screws up too tight, that can cause vibration. The MSR is the same. If I bolt the blades tight, it rattles all over the place, but leave them loose and they're fine.

I think the CP3 has the same arrangement. The blades should flap around loose, I think?

If they are loose, then there is an imbalance in the blades. Fit them on top of each other and see if they are a perfect fit. (The angle especially) Try bits of tape on the end of the blades?

If not, they're fecked!!

Amazing that you got it all together!!!!

Ian

[PinkFloyd]

I tightened them up a fair bit Ian, will go and refit them and see if loosening them helps.... I'm pretty good with repairs but with things that "fly" balance has to be perfect

[Deleted]

Well, it causes the MSR to shake if they're tightened so that the blades don't flop. Other than that, tape on one blade and if it's worse, take it off and put it on the other.

However on that size heli, the tape may not be heavy enough!!

Also Mike, check the tracking of the blades. Start them turning quite fast and look at the shape of the edge of the blades. You should see just one blade and not a 'ghost' image. If you see a 'ghost', then one blade is higher than the other and needs to be lowered. To work out which one, look to see which one has that red strip that one of your blade has or had? Or else put a mark on one blade, like a strip and check to see if there is a 'ghost' image.

Ian

[PinkFloyd]

It's not the blades.... I have checked, it's a bent feathering shaft!

[PinkFloyd]

I can see this being a VERY costly helicopter to run.... £3.50 for a "feathering shaft" and they bend if you so much as look at them Obviously the secret is not to crash the blades but, if you do..... a new feathering shaft will be the order of the day.

Ian, these things are not little "e-flite" indestructable jobs.... these are pretty high maintenance I fear.... lots of adjustments to be made (fine tuning) and high running costs.

[Deleted]

What a pain. At 6 inches off the floor as well!! Their size works against them in knocks and crashes. Hopefully, nothing has been transmitted further down the works. Once you replace them, you'll find out.

The little ones are really fiddly to play around with. Even those silly little plastic links you pop on are a pain because it's so fiddly.

Maybe on the Bee it won't be so bad because of its size?

Jeez, you've got me feeling quite wobbly about them. Very easy to do damage. It's SO easy to topple a single blade on take off so the blades hit the deck. I'm going to take it really easy.

Ian

[PinkFloyd]

Just removed the feathering shaft (TIGHT) and it's bent as a nine bob note.... thing is, it is a SOLID piece of gear and even smashing it with a hammer wouldn't straighten it so it just shows the force those blades have!

Note to self..... don't smash blades of on a lawnmower again!

I will do a step by step guide how to replace the feathering shaft as there are a lot of bearings, washers etc. that all have to go back in the correct way round..... I also reckon a little bit of grease would help in there.....

[Deleted]

You have me worried now. What have I let myself in for? Oh well, we'll see. Thing is, one crash seems to be quite dangerous to the heli. It's all very well chucking the Blades about, but this is a different ball game altogether!!

Ian

[PinkFloyd]

Oct 9, 2011 22:02:46 GMT @iancraig10 said:

You have me worried now. What have I let myself in for? Oh well, we'll see. Thing is, one crash seems to be quite dangerous to the heli. It's all very well chucking the Blades about, but this is a different ball game altogether!!

Ian

Don't worry Ian.... basically the feathering shaft slides through the main shaft and essentially supports the blades.... look at it as a "T" with the top of the T being the feathering shaft..... if you whack the blades (with FORCE) then the feathering shaft is probably going to take the blow resulting in it getting bent.... and, as I now know, a bent feathering shaft will result in severe vibration.

I actually prefer learning this way Ian... it's good to know what does what and WHY it does it.... much better than crashing and ending up in some model shop exclaiming "my toy is broken can you fix it?".... I reckon if we can understand the mechanics the actual "flying" should be a lot easier.

The beauty of the Honey Bee is that you can actually work on it quite easily, the MCX2 is so fragile I'd be frightened to touch anything incase it snapped!

The feathering shaft is VERY strong so I must have given the Honey Bee one HELLUVA whack off the lawnmower..... I tried to hammer the feathering shaft straight and, believe me, it's like hammering a piece od steel..... VERY strong...... I couldn't even bend it using two pairs of pliers so, as I say, it must have taken one HELL of a knock

Good news is, they are generally available, £3 a pop and relatively easy to replace (as long as you take note of the 6 washers, locknuts, bearings each side) I find it strange that the whole assembly was fitted "dry" and will be applying a small film of silicon grease when reassembling.... barring further "smashes" I think the silicon will make things a wee bit smoother..... I was always taught "if it moves, oil it.... if it doesn't move, paint it".....

Soooooo...... just awaiting the new feathering shaft (which I have been reliably informed is made from silvered steel)

[PinkFloyd]

hmmmmmm..... have been advised to check the "main" shaft too as sometimes (according to this guy) if the feathering shaft bends the main shaft could have bent too.

Oh great! 43 seconds "flight time", crash into a lawnmower and now into the main hangar for repair...... erm..... cheap to buy, expensive to maintain.

I think we've bought a Sony playstation here Ian Cheap if you don't want to play games but £40 every time you want to play a new game