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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 2, 2011 22:04:24 GMT
Was having a bit of a cleanup / stock check today and came across ten of these Burr Brown OPA111BM single channel opamps in their original packaging. They are TO99 package (metal can with gold pins) and are UK stamped (manufactured in the UK)...... A pretty old Burr Brown design and I was SHOCKED to see that RS are selling them at £56.64 GBP EACH!!.... add on the £11.32 VAT and £4.99 shipping and these are coming in at a whopping £72.95 "EACH" !! Holy CRAP Batman, that is a LOT of money for an opamp that has been around since the beginning of time.... and that's £72.95 for the crappy lead free "ROHS" OPA111BM churned out in some sweatshop in Asia..... I've got ten "made in the UK" ones with gold pins so, surely, they are worth £900 each? Genuine Burr Brown, made in the UK, Gold pins..... it's got the makings of an audiophile's "must have" hasn't it? As rare as Hen's teeth and I would assume that the UK manufactured OPA111BM were the best! OK..... I have found ten of these in the back of a drawer and the question is "what will I use them for?"..... they are single channel opamps so I will try a couple of them in the NECO portable (for starters)..... I have ordered a few TO99 to DIP8 mono to dual adaptors and will try these out in a variety of amps I have at my disposal..... Metal can opamps seem to be all the rage at the moment.... I just wonder how these "oldies" will compare to modern day opamps...... I have a hunch that they may be quite good (looking at the specs)..... it's not an opamp that I have experience of and I certainly didn't expect to have 10 x £50 GBP (minus VAT) worth of them sitting in a drawer! The spec sheet is here: focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/opa111.pdf On "paper" it doesn't seem to be any great shakes but maybe it will SOUND good..... I will keep you posted It is "obviously" of value to somebody...... I wouldn't dream of paying £70 GBP for an opamp.... maybe this is a NOS marvel that hasn't been discovered yet and there are a hardcore group of OPA111BM listeners out there who are keeping it a secret? I will experiment with a couple of them in a variety of amps and let you know the score...... Frans, maybe you have a working knowledge of these? A few pics I took on the kitchen worktop........ The TO99 adaptor I will be using (single to dual) The Burr Brown OPA111BM (UK made) opamp.....
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 2, 2011 22:48:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2011 11:08:10 GMT
I think they may be better used for their original intended applications . Their slew rate is quite slow by today's standards and their power bandwidth is quite low.Might be O.K. for Mega Poop 3 though .
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 3, 2011 11:20:53 GMT
I think they may be better used for their original intended applications . Their slew rate is quite slow by today's standards and their power bandwidth is quite low.Might be O.K. for Mega Poop 3 though . I agree about the specs Alex BUT will use my ears to see what they sound like Nothing to lose eh? There is no law that states NOS "vintage" chips should not be used in today's equipment... if they sound crap then so be it but definitely worth a try
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 3, 2011 11:24:39 GMT
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Post by gommer on Jul 3, 2011 11:47:12 GMT
I agree about the specs Alex BUT will use my ears to see what they sound like Nothing to lose eh? There is no law that states NOS "vintage" chips should not be used in today's equipment... if they sound crap then so be it but definitely worth a try Hear hear, that's why I'm building a TDA1543 DAC. You can't go much older than these babies for DAC's
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2011 11:51:18 GMT
I never used those and don't know them. From a technical point of view they are very similar to the RC4558 (which Miquel seems to like) and also exist(ed?) in metal can b.t.w. Alex is right on the slow part, and the slew rate is rather low. Not very suited for battery fed stuff as well, as it is not specified below +/-5V (so 10V battery voltage with rail splitter) but perhaps will still work at lower voltages, just not meet specs anymore ? The OPA627 is 50 times faster, has lower noise and other better specs. It is, however, pin compatible (as are most of the single chip opamps). How they compare subjectively may be a completely other ball game. When used in a preamp with output voltages of around 1V it will have high a enough bandwidth with moderate gain levels. Cannot be used in microphone or RIAA amps for sure. When used in headphone amps, at full throttle, the bandwidth might be a bit limited and fast transients in hirezzzzz audiofiles MIGHT cause the opamp to deteriorate the sound, but only at high HF levels these things MIGHT occur. At high levels the opamp simply cannot make rising or falling edges fast enough anymore within the audible bandwidths, and sinewaves of 20kHz at high levels will start to look like triangles. (see the C.H.AMP article on the RC4558) At lower output levels it will be fine though. Perhaps slewrate power bandwidth limiting might take the edge off of some of the agressive (read high amounts of (un)related harmonics) recordings and 'flatten' those a bit. Only your ears can tell, so give it a try, nothing to loose.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 3, 2011 20:34:33 GMT
Frans.... Could well be the distortion that makes some of these "not technically perfect for the job" appealing to some ears I will know the second I listen to them, if they are warm and lush sounding then they will appeal to the "tube" lovers..... Maybe Miguel loves the RC4458 opamp because it's closer to sounding to a "tube" than it is to SS..... Sure, it may not be "superfast", may not have a stunning slew spec and bandwith may be limited but that means nothing..... if it "sounds" nice to certain people then it IS valid to them. The Indeed / Bravo amps kind of prove that.... "technically" shite but "sonically" appealing to quite a few ears...... The NE5532 is pretty much laughed at on most "audiophile" forums, it's said to be outdated etc.... BUT, in some applications, you just can't beat it. I have nothing against older chips and have never been one of these "latest is greatest" type people.... thinking back, I enjoyed music more back in the late 70's / 80's than I do now.... god knows what "components" were inside the the gear, that didn't matter to me.... all that mattered was the sound. I have heard (and own) most of the modern chips and just because they are "newer" and have better "specs" doesn't necessarily mean they sound any better than a well implemented LM351 (for example)....... Just like musical instruments themselves, there is no such thing as the "perfect" guitar or the "ideal" Piano.... it is all down to who's playing the instrument Anyhoo..... I'll stop typing now as I don't want to start another "can you hear the difference" type thread..... I'll report back on the chips (OPA111BM) as soon as I've had a chance to listen to them..... I'll shove them in the WNA MKlll for starters.... that will give them the best opportunity to show their metal Mike.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 12, 2011 21:55:38 GMT
The adaptors arrived from Thailand today and they are TOP quality..... - FR-4 laminate 1.6mm - 2oz. Copper - Gold Plate Came supplied with gold pins and DIP8 sockets.... you basically slot the gold pins into the Dip8 as a "holder" and then attach the apator and solder the pins onto the adaptor.... Superb quality adaptors and you can get them from Sorch Audio on ebay. Anyhoo.... fitted the OPA111 onto the adaptors and did a preliminary "do they work" test in a breadboarded GS Solo.... yes, they do work! I will be back in a couple of weeks after listening to the opa111.... just thought I'd check in to report that the adaptors have arrived Pics of the OPA111 fitted onto the Sorch adaptors:
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Jul 12, 2011 23:30:01 GMT
Mike, they look awesome! I look forward to reading your impressions.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2011 0:11:59 GMT
Mike, they look awesome! I look forward to reading your impressions. Miguel IF you had a couple of LME49710HA (single version of LM4562HA/LME49720HA) it could be worth trying in your SC HA. Alex P.S. Did changing to 4,700uF s in the JLH make much difference ?
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Jul 13, 2011 10:04:09 GMT
Hi Alex, I will look for the LME497010HA. The caps were replaced and the unit has been burnt-in for about 100 hours. The JLH sounds nice, however aural memory is at times fleeting so I cannot comment on the difference.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2011 10:27:42 GMT
Hi Alex, I will look for the LME497010HA. The caps were replaced and the unit has been burnt-in for about 100 hours. The JLH sounds nice, however aural memory is at times fleeting so I cannot comment on the difference. Miguel I can't promise that 2 x LME49710HA will sound better than a single metal can LM4562HA/LME49720HA Alex
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 13, 2011 21:38:10 GMT
Mike, they look awesome! I look forward to reading your impressions. Yes..... they "look" OK but what do they sound like? That is the main question Most of my amps (these days) are discrete "opampless" types and I am finding it hard to choose "which" opamp rich amp I DO have at my disposal to evaluate these in.... I have a breadboard SOLO (which has followed ALL the revisions since year 2004 to the present day) but don't want to "go there" again so it's a bit of a dilema for me I have a project headbox, a NAIM, an old Sugden etc. to play about with but these are amps I have, long since, relegated into the "gathering dust" dept. I will go with what I know and use my own reference points..... I will test / evaluate the single OPA111 in the WNA MKlll (with cascode PSU) I will shoehorn the single to dual OPA111 into my reference X-CANS (V1)...... I have soldered a couple of them onto Dip8 sockets for single channel duty and will try these out in the WNA MKlll / cascode amp.... the single to dual's I will evaluate in my "reference" X-CAN V1..... Plenty of free time at the moment so I expect to get back to this thread in the next couple of weeks
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 14, 2011 20:32:46 GMT
I had the Neco portable open today so thought I may as well try a couple of OPA111 in it whilst I had the bonnet open: Frans wasn't too sure about these being "useable" in a low voltage amp but I can confirm that they ARE useable in the Neco portable I was, honestly, expecting these to sound pretty shite in the Neco but, to my amazement, they proved me totally wrong! They possess a lovely flowing, fluid type sound and not dissimilar to the OPA627 in tonality. I can now "hear" why a few people seem to really rate this vintage chip, it is very "un opamp like" (if that makes any sense?) and sounds quite analogue (again, if that makes any sense ).... You can crank the Neco right up and there is no signs of distress (as Ian noticed with the AD-843) just nice, clean, music right around the dial. I am going to get these into a bigger amp, sooner rather than later, as they sound very promising indeed! Maybe they aren't up there "technically" with some of the hot rod, latest and greatest, chips but as far as tonality and musicality are concerned, they are well up there. I would like my man in Surrey (Ian) to have a listen to these so will pop a pair in the post tomorrow, if that's OK with you Ian? Ian really has a way of describing the "music" when he's listening to a chip which is a lot better than me typing a long screed about XYZ compared to ABC type chip thang I'll solder a coupls onto DIP8 sockets in the morning and get them in the post for you to try Ian. To my ears, these OPA111 chips have a lot of promise and may well be one that the audio junkies have totally missed!
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 14, 2011 21:45:50 GMT
Listening to H17 "Penthouse and Pavement" right now and this chip (OPA111) is giving me insight into an album that I never knew existed until now (the insight)...... Oh yes, to hell with you "stat" merchants (may you burn in hell!).... this is giving me insight / being at one with the music and THAT is "all" that matters in my book
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 15, 2011 22:25:52 GMT
I was in a bit of a rush to get out the door in one piece this morning Ian and the "Wilkinson Sword" disposable razors I bought, to replace my usual (tried and tested) BIC sensitive skin razors, didn't help as they cut my face to shreds...... I just cannot be doing with these "twin blade" (or more) shavers.... they seem to want to shave SKIN as well as hair..... I kind of "blind shave" in the shower and only use palmolive soap..... I rotate the palmolive soap in my left hand to work up a lather, coat my face with soap and then go in with my right hand sporting a "yellow" BIC single blade razor (constantly rinsing it under the shower head)....... I have been doing this for almost TWENTY years without so much as a scratch..... anyhoo, these "twin blade" Wilkinson sword blades cut me up badly I wasn't aware of it until I noticed BLOOD draining away in the base of the shower Holy crap..... I had an hour to get ready to catch the bus into town and my face looked like a sieve with blood pumping out of many holes Note to self..... BEAT the crap out of those razors with a hammer and do NOT attempt to use them again.... especially NOT around the testicle area! OK.... 10am in the morning and I am STILL bleeding from many areas of the face..... half a kitchen roll wrapped round my head...... erm, NOT my usual morning "routine"...... I tripped on the stairs, fell down them and have appeared to pulled a muscle or something in my hip...... Fear not though! I made it to the end of the lane and boarded the bus with your OPA111..... they should be with you tomorrow "clean shave"?!! I expect that to mean "HAIR" and not "skin" that is being removed..... I don't think I would respond very well to one of these twin QUAD type "turbo" razors.... ffs, I wan't the shave to be "close" enough so it doesn't look like I've pissed myself and slept in a ditch overnight but I don't want it to be SO "close" that it actually removes SKIN from my face! I PRIDE myself on my young looks and put it down to using ONLY soap (for everything body washing), single blade razors, a daily inhalation of nicotine and an ingestion of neat spirits to "pickle" your parts..... that Wilkinson Sword guy must have had a face like a well thrashed arse using those things..... Not my idea of a comfortable "shave". My face is STILL bleeding (in parts) and it's almost MIDNIGHT..... A lesson well learnt though.... you can "blind" shave with a BIC sensitive for 20 years (PLUS) no problems, but it only takes 5 minutes to carve the fekk out of your face with a Wilkinson Sword
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Post by Garage1217 on Jul 15, 2011 23:07:30 GMT
Ouch man! We have the schick brand here which is wilkinsons sword over there. I actually just wrote an article on another site as I have had razor burn problems for 20 years in the sweltering hot desert of AZ... You really feel it when it is 115 out! Anyways I switched over to the wilkinsons / schick hydro 5 and my god it is the best razor I have ever used and I have tried plenty of razors. I also blind shave in the shower as well. Been using them for a month and not 1 day of burn since! Worth a shot for sure if anyone is looking to try something else or if one has sensitive skin.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 15, 2011 23:21:28 GMT
Ouch man! We have the schick brand here which is wilkinsons sword over there. I actually just wrote an article on another site as I have had razor burn problems for 20 years in the sweltering hot desert of AZ... You really feel it when it is 115 out! Anyways I switched over to the wilkinsons / schick hydro 5 and my god it is the best razor I have ever used and I have tried plenty of razors. I also blind shave in the shower as well. Been using them for a month and not 1 day of burn since! Worth a shot for sure if anyone is looking to try something else or if one has sensitive skin. Jeremy... once bitten twice shy..... I'll ship you over a pack of these BIC razors.... let me know how they perform in the desert...... they may not be the "closest" shave but, shit, they agree with the skin..... I'll send you a pack of ten as soon as my chemist gets them back in stock. Mike.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2011 23:23:16 GMT
;D I've only been wet-shaving for 10 years or so, finally got sick of 2 electric shaves or possibly 3 if going out late, per day. I don't have "heavy" growth but it is fast. Anyway I went straight to 3 blade "behind bars 'caus there so deadly" jobbies. Yep! Cut myself to ribbons, looked like the friggin' Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Got hold of some decent gel and all is well. I can now use pretty much any blade, the above ones are at home at Lidls best at work, "Bellini" I think. Same three blades but no bars..... Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, they're fierce I deffo. reckon you get a closer shave with the gel than with soap or foam. 1 shave a day is usually good enough and no more blood-baths. Smooth as a babys
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 15, 2011 23:51:12 GMT
What is all this "close" crap about? I don't want my face to look like a baby's arse... I just don't want to look like a tramp.... kind of "fresh but 9 hours ago" type of look.... If I was an ugly bastard then I'd be quite happy to shave "skin" on a daily basis, thing is I am NOT ugly and would prefer to hold onto all the skin I've got
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2011 0:12:20 GMT
What is all this "close" crap about? I don't want my face to look like a baby's arse... I just don't want to look like a tramp.... kind of "fresh but 9 hours ago" type of look.... If I was an ugly bastard then I'd be quite happy to shave "skin" on a daily basis, thing is I am NOT ugly and would prefer to hold onto all the skin I've got Sounds like an electric razor could be ideal for you ?
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Post by Garage1217 on Jul 16, 2011 1:24:48 GMT
Mike, We have the bic sensitive here in the us
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2011 9:44:15 GMT
Mike, They've just arrived and I've put them in. What a doddle with mini water towers to hold. They look great!!! Maybe this should be called 'The Water Tower' mod. First listen and it's noticeable to say the least. I must 'tune in' to whichever opamp I'm using. These seem to be hard hitting. I also listened to some P & P to replicate what you were listening to and it has got plenty of kick in it. In fact, it does help the sound of the band a great deal and is more like how I heard it with the bottom end being particularly important. If that's missing, the music loses any impact because it's based on minimalism and no fill in sounds. That's the problem that many have with it since it sounds shite on poorer systems because you also need to be able to hear the 'detuning' of the synths above and the harmonics that start to appear with it. You should also notice the 'pitter patter' sounds that have clear definable patterns whereas on a poor system, you just hear 'pitter patter'. (You might understand this Mike if you have a close listen. On this opamp, you can hear it. Exactly what I heard live! That's why I moan so much about CD mastering. It can be hard to detect which just leaves inane melodies and bass lines on poorer systems. I'll have a close listen today but they will probably need to cook a little. First listen is good. They seem to sound less 'clinical' which always makes me wonder about accuracy, but that's the same feeling I got with the DT990. Having said that, the system that knocked me down didn't sound 'hi fi' but it was real music coming from it!! This punches but isn't clinical/toppy sounding. In fact, it doesn't quite fit the sound of SS imo. Anyway, I'll give this a prolonged listen. It sounds nice. In fact, seriously nice. Maybe I'm addicted to distortion following the tech spec? Ian
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2011 9:59:12 GMT
It would be interesting to see if a plastic version of this I.C. sounded anywhere near as good. I suspect not.
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