Musical Fidelity Amps

[pcourtney1]

my first MF amp was the X-Can v1 in the mid nineties, around '96 I seem to remember. The source was usually from the line out of one of the many Sony Discmans I used over the years, probably a D-33, and the headphones were a pair of AKG K240's

this combo served me very well for many years, and 15 years later after discovering "rockgrotto" it would be great to get back up to speed with all the latest wisdom from you guys re: the best setup (bang for buck) I could achieve today, if that is OK

First off, I gave my X-Can v1 to my son and he tells me that he mostly uses his iPhone now with some Sony headphones, so I could retrieve it and send to Mike for all the upgrades, or would it be much better to get the X-Can v3 or V8p

I nearly hit the credit card in 2004 when I saw Wes Phillips review
and how nice the v3 sounded with his Senn HD600 cans

www.onhifi.com/product/musicalfidelity_xcan_v3.htm


so a little bit about me, I have 51 year old ears, with a love for acoustic guitar, piano, sax, a lot of Jazz, and even mainstream R&B stuff, really enjoy any CD's which have been superbly recorded by talented engineers.

The AC power in my house will be fed into an APC Smart-UPS RT 1000, this provides proper regulated sine wave power to my HiFi equipment, I once had a friend who loaned me his PS Audio Power Plant for a couple of months, and I could not perceive any difference to the APC UPS in ABX tests that my wife played on me.

The source (CDP) will be my trusty Musical Fidelity DVD-1 player, as it can play discs up to 24/192 stereo (edit - now sold)

The cans, probably AKG again, or Senns, my brother has some HD600's, and he wants to sell them, so I might bite if fellow rockgrotto members think they are still good enough ?

[XTRProf]

Hi there,

Welcome! Actually, if you are into DIY, there will be quite an explosion of HA kits to consider here. Just stay around and checkout the place and you will find them.

[mrarroyo]

Hi, I have both the V1 and V2 modded by Mike. I much prefer the V2 and my fully modded V1 is sitting not being used. So I would get a V2 and mod it as well as modding the V1 you already have so you can compare for yourself. Good luck.

[mrpharmacist]

As for the HD600s I think they're a good set of headphones.........but really what's your CDP like? I find the Senns very neutral to the point of picking up the slightly thin mid-range on my Rotel CDP. Therefore I did all the X-Can V3 mods thinking it would even it out, but I think what I've done is just carry that thinness across? (it does get a bit psychoacoustic after a while)
If I were in your shoes.....or rather if you were in my shoes I'd suggest testing a V3 alongside the apparently 'ballsier' V1 or V2 and also checking the 600s alongside the 650s which sound more forward.
With some sort of combination of the above MF and Senns you ought to find something to suit your source or have enough info to take a well-informed guess.

[PinkFloyd]

If you can get one (ebay) I would buy a V2 over ANY other headphone amp on the planet.... they are STILL seriously good amps (even as stock) and, although secondhand prices are MORE than the original price of £129, still worth it.

Only thing is... a ten year old V2 will not be firing on all four.... the valves will be out of spec and "6 times out of ten" one or more of the Jamicon caps will have started to bulge..... ONLY buy a V2 if you are prepared to replace all the "time sensitive" parts.... these are capacitors and valves... the resistors, transistors, diodes etc. will last forever.

Compare a "stock" 10 year old V2 to a "brand new" amp and you may well prefer the brand new amp..... replace the tired caps / valves and listen again You will be very impressed by the V2.

Remember this..... there is no such thing as the "latest" amp or the "new generation" of amp..... amp designs have been pretty much the same for decades..... ALL amps are just a variation on a tried and tested design.... pretty much like a wheel.... if somebody told you tomorrow that they have reinvented the wheel you would laugh.... a wheel is a wheel, you can't get "rounder" than round.....

Same goes with amps.... all these BS merchants who claim their design is "ground breaking" etc. have simply fitted some different tyres to the wheel.....

In ALL my years of listening to headphone amps I have, yet to find, one that stands out as TRULY different to all the rest.... SURE, there are "slight" nuances that can be homed in on but (generally speaking) a well designed amp will sound much the same as the next well designed amp.....

It's not so much the "design" (as the designs have been around since the 1900's) it's more the "implimentation" of the design that counts (PCB, layout, grounding etc.).... to this day I STILL haven't heard a headphone amp that is any better than the X-CAN V2 at the price and those that "were" slightly better didn't warrant an extra £2,000 to give me "slightly" better sound.

YMMV (your mileage may vary) but, generally speaking, an amp is an amp..... If you wan't to get the best SQ for cheap then go with a V2..... A well implemented design (which has stood the test of time) and you are guaranteed you will get more than your outlay cost back should you decide to sell it...... a TRUE icon in headphone amp history.

Hope this helps,

Mike.

[pcourtney1]

wow, thanks all of you, especially Mike :-)

a V2 it is, can't wait to buy one and send it off to you Mike for the upgrades !

BTW the CDP is the MF DVD-1 CD that I bought in the summer of 2001, mainly designed around and built upon the success of the A3CD player but can play DVD's as well, it sits in the same rack as my APC UPS, and it would be really cool to sit the V2 and my cans on the glass top table of the rack in my lounge.

to my ears the A3CD and the DVD1 have a very similar sound signature to me, and in ABX tests I did at the time, I could not tell the difference, they even use the same chassis :-)

so all I need to do now is to listen to lots of different cans when I get my V2 modded, thanks everyone for your help so far, lovely forum to be on, glad I joined.


NB If anyone can recommend headphones that work wonderfully well with your V2, please let me know, I would very much appreciate that, then I can demo those as well in my quest to plough through all my old CD's this winter before I rip the really good ones to my NAS for posterity using EAC software.

[pcourtney1]

bought a nice V2 today, and have been comparing it with my son's stock V1, and the Senn HD600's, mostly been using the line out of my iPod for the source and uncompressed wav files, it was clear that the V2 in stock form has the edge over the V1, just like Mike said it would, we even used the same 6H1N tubes in both amps so that it was more of a like for like test, but the V2 just creates more music, more life, difficult to exactly describe it really.

what are the main differences pcb wise between these two x-cans ?
what did MF do to get the better V2 signature sound ?

what tubes does everyone now use for x-cans to get optimal sq, these 6H1N's are from the seventies i seem to remember but probably there are much better ones to be had these days perhaps

[mrarroyo]

Is the heater current draw the same? I thought it was like double the draw of a 6922. I hope Mike chimes in to clarify it.

[PinkFloyd]

I wouldn't use the 6H1N as they require more current.... you will find your wallwart gets pretty hot with them! I would recommend you change them for 6N23P-EB which are the Russian equivalent of a 6922, they are chrome pinned and built like tanks.... superb valves.

[elysion]

The AC power in my house will be fed into an APC Smart-UPS RT 1000, this provides proper regulated sine wave power to my HiFi equipment, I once had a friend who loaned me his PS Audio Power Plant for a couple of months, and I could not perceive any difference to the APC UPS in ABX tests that my wife played on me.

Looks like I'm not the only one that does it this way. Have a look here:

www.rockgrotto.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=c&action=display&thread=4723

[pcourtney1]

there maybe a handful of us now on RG Christian

the thing that most people don't get is that the UPS design i have used for the past 20 years is true double online conversion, the APC unit i currently have even displays a BYPASS light if the unit needs to bypass the DC batteries for whatever reason, obviously the RT range that APC manufacture is expensive, it's designed for high end medical and laboratory conditions, where perfect sine wave AC is preferred !

But i picked one up on ebay for £50 sterling last xmas for a friend of mine, did all the mods and cables for him, and shipped it off to Tenerife for him, he is one happy bunny, no longer having a care in the world about all his high end Audiophile gear, and when i went out there to see him at Easter the sq on his system wasn't bad either

needless to say a UPS is not for everyone, it is deemed too simple to be true, and therefore can have no value, i was very lucky in that a good business friend of mine had a PS Audio power plant he let me borrow for a few months, and swapping between my UPS and the PS Audio made absolutely no difference sq wise, when he came back to London I told him so, he sold the PS device and now has the same 1000 RT model as me

the extra benefit for me is that my networked NAS is plugged into the UPS as well, and it also powers the ADSL modem in the house, and the DECT basestation so that if ever the power does go out, we have over 18 hours of DC battery to fall back on (luckily my ups also has an external battery pack connector that allows me to daisy chain as many extra battery packs as I need)

luckily RG is such a friendly place that it does not matter what I need or use for my hifi listening pleasure, but a good quality UPS has become more important to me over the years, that's for sure !

[PinkFloyd]

Jun 10, 2011 20:25:10 GMT pcourtney1 said:

there maybe a handful of us now on RG Christian

the thing that most people don't get is that the UPS design i have used for the past 20 years is true double online conversion, the APC unit i currently have even displays a BYPASS light if the unit needs to bypass the DC batteries for whatever reason, obviously the RT range that APC manufacture is expensive, it's designed for high end medical and laboratory conditions, where perfect since wave AC is preferred !

But i picked one up on ebay for £50 sterling last xmas for a friend of mine, did all the mods and cables for him, and shipped it off to Tenerife for him, he is one happy bunny, no longer having a care in the world about all his high end Audiophile gear, and when i went out there to see him at Easter the sq on his system wasn't bad either

needless to say a UPS is not for everyone, it is deemed too simple to be true, and therefore can have no value, i was very lucky in that a good business friend of mine had a PS Audio power plant he let me borrow for a few months, and swapping between my UPS and the PS Audio made absolutely no difference sq wise, when he came back to London I told him so, he sold the PS device and now has the same 1000 RT model as me

the extra benefit for me is that my networked NAS is plugged into the UPS as well, and it also powers the ADSL modem in the house, and the DECT basestation so that if ever the power does go out, we have over 18 hours of DC battery to fall back on (luckily my ups also has an external battery pack connector that allows me to daisy chain as many extra battery packs as I need)

luckily RG is such a friendly place that it does not matter what I need or use for my hifi listening pleasure, but a good quality UPS has become more important to me over the years, that's for sure !

Where is the best place to buy one?

[elysion]

Jun 10, 2011 23:13:39 GMT PinkFloyd said:

Where is the best place to buy one?

Mike, in your case, it's maybe a good idea to look for a used UPS. I'm sure you can replace all components if this would be needed and the batteries themselves aren't as costly as the whole UPS. I've seen used or new UPS for almost ridiculous prices on auction plattforms.

If you want specific an UPS of the APC RT-series, you'll need some luck since those are seldom (and costly if you buy one new).

I have two high-end PowerWare UPS from Eaton. I have lent them to a good friend who uses them for his audio equipment. He needs only one and the batteries of both are worth next to nothing. If you are interested, I'd send you one of those (including a very costly network management card), but without the batteries. The weight will still be very high for a parcel though.

Another option is to buy a new APC UPS. They are quite cheap, but the RT series is their high-end product line. If you are already satisfied with a cheaper model of the Smart-UPS series (like those I have), you'll find a lot of good offers. I'd suggest to keep the UPS as small as possible, because a big UPS burns a lot of electric power if the load is small. The newest series of APC UPS are quite efficient though (there are new EU regulations that demand for higher energy efficiency).

I've bought one of the new models this spring. It's (only) a Smart-UPS SMT750I with 750VA/500Watts, but that more than enough for most of my gear. It's not the same class as the RT-series, but I've heard real improvements even with the lower end Smart-UPS. According to Frans, the main benefit is from the line filters that are used, but most better UPS regenerate the sine-wave and have various other features. Most UPS do not output a perfect sine-wave though (the sine-wave is somewhat "flattened" at the top). I've seen this on an oscilloscope of a friend. I can't say how the sine-wave looks on my UPS' since I don't have a oscilloscope.

[pcourtney1]

i think I may be able to source one for you Mike and courier it up to you, will call you on Monday !

i don't know where Christian got his information from re the Smart-Ups consuming lots of power, but i have measured my RT 1000 model, and when nothing is plugged into the IEC sockets it barely reads 50 watts of power being consumed in idle mode, so this has never been a worry for me, cannot say this is true of any other UPS models, but i like the 700w of power that i can use on the 1000 model when i have all 6 IEC sockets being used, so for me (and many others) a big UPS like the 1000 and 1500 models are fine for home use !

i have a simple toroidal transformer that i had made for me back in 1996 when i first bought my X-CAN v1, it was hand built by a chap in Hertford, fantastic quality, probably not as sophisticated as your "Little Pinkie", but then all the hard work on the AC mains supply is being done by the UPS, so it only needs to be a super simple hand wound jobbie using the best parts one can lay their hands on at the time

i have played with many IEC cables, sockets and copper wire, of all sorts and prices over 20 years or so, but to be honest I find it difficult to improve the sq on my setup using exotica that many so called audiophile companies churn out at the most ridiculous prices, but good luck to them, I am not sure I could sleep at night selling "snake oil" for a living, but hey ho !

[elysion]

Jun 11, 2011 13:21:46 GMT pcourtney1 said:

i don't know where Christian got his information from re the Smart-Ups consuming lots of power, but i have measured my RT 1000 model, and when nothing is plugged into the IEC sockets it barely reads 50 watts of power being consumed in idle mode, so this has never been a worry for me, cannot say this is true of any other UPS models, but i like the 700w of power that i can use on the 1000 model when i have all 6 IEC sockets being used, so for me (and many others) a big UPS like the 1000 and 1500 models are fine for home use !

I have the information from the graphs that APC publishes for every single model of their product line. Lower load means bigger dissipation losses (but there's always some loss when using a UPS).

50 Watts of consumed energy while doing absolutely nothing is IMO a massive waste of energy. If it does nothing, shut it down... it's that simple.

I don't want to upset someone though. My only intention was to clarify that the "right" size of an UPS is important to keep your energy bills down. It doesn't make sense to buy a 3 kVA UPS to power a single headphone amplifier with it (in this case, the UPS itself would "use" more power than the headphone amp connected to it).

In my case, the 750VA/500W APC UPS is enough for several headphone amps, a CD player, a tuner, two or more small computers (including TFT's and some peripherals), three NAS with a total of eight 3.5" harddisks, a 24-port managed ProCurve Gigabit-Switch with Mini-GBIC slots, an ADSL router, a WLAN router and most of the illumination I need in the evening (all "lamps" using LED's). And the UPS has still some reserves...

My NAS' and some of the illumination are time-controlled to keep the energy consumation as low as possible.

I agree with you that a UPS in the 1000-1500 VA range IS suitable for home use. But my example shows that it is possible without problems to go even further and live with less mains power. It makes also sense to connect as much gear to the UPS as possible. This way the dissipation loss of the UPS can be kept as low as possible, while the dissipation losses of the connected PSU's remain the same. Of course every UPS and PSU has still some dissipation losses as long as they are connected to the mains.

The new EU regulations that demand higher efficiency are not without cause. The objective is to minimize dissipation losses on a big scale.

That's also the reason why SMPS are so common today. They offer rather high efficiency even at relatively low loads, are cheap and comply easily with current regulations.

But SMPS' have also various drawbacks. Thanks to the guys on RG, I know that. And that's a very good reason for me to go for linear regulated or toroidal PSU's for some applications. I won't stop using linear and toroidal PSU because some EU bureaucrats have too much time to create new regulations.

It's about the right type and right size for UPS' and PSU's. If we consider the factors mentioned above, we can use our equipment in the most efficient way, while saving money with lower energy bills and doing something good for the environment for free.

BTW: I wouldn't be suprised if older UPS (built before the new regulations came up) have also some advantages over newer models.

[pcourtney1]

you have got me going now, i will properly measure it when I get a spare moment, it is probably less than 50 watts, but as i never switch off the UPS because our ADSL and DECT base station, and NAS are also supplied by it, I cannot say I am too bothered, what I do know is that my hifi sq is better for it, and costing me next to nothing In reality as I need the UPS for other things that are more important than my headphone amp :-)

looking at the APC specs for my model, if I plug in all 6 IEC sockets with 700 watts load, then I am actually consuming 796 watts because my RT model is only 88% efficient at full load, so apologies to all you "save the planet" activists, but I am sure you guys have bigger fish to fry than my 96 watts !

[elysion]

I'm not a "save the planet activist". But why spend more on electricity than needed? Because you like to throw money out of the window? Even if the savings are not substantial for you, what's bad about optimizing it somewhat?

Even my UPS isn't always under full load (mostly it's not). And it has always some headroom left for spikes. Most of the time it's around one third of the maximum load or even below. With everthing turned on and computers on 100% CPU usage, it's around 80-85% (which is reached only very seldom). The UPS is also always on for the same reason you have mentioned (NAS, network, router).

If I would be a "save the planet activist" then I would not use an UPS at all. Very likely, I'd have not as much electrical devices around then.

[pcourtney1]

i did not mean to point the finger at you Christian, it was your reference to the EU and what you said about their goals for "saving the planet", anyway, have a good weekend Sir, I'm going to have a soak in my hot tub with the girls

imageshack.us/photo/my-images/135/cyprus.jpg/

don't worry it's on a dedicated 16amp circuit, and it's only on for a few hours every day :-)

[elysion]

Jun 11, 2011 22:23:45 GMT pcourtney1 said:

i did not mean to point the finger at you Christian, it was your reference to the EU and what you said about their goals for "saving the planet", anyway, have a good weekend Sir, I'm going to have a soak in my hot tub with the girls

imageshack.us/photo/my-images/135/cyprus.jpg/

don't worry it's on a dedicated 16amp circuit, and it's only on for a few hours every day :-)

A very pleasant way to waste energy...