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Post by freddypipsqueek on Jun 2, 2010 14:15:45 GMT
Has anybody tried these with a White Noise Audio and/or Chiarra - I've also PM'd Insomniac but without reply. Are Audio GD Op amps no longer available ?.
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insomniac
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Post by insomniac on Jun 13, 2010 13:11:51 GMT
Hi Freddy, Apologies for the late reply as I've been out of the loop for a bit. The Chiarra works well with the Dual Moon and also the Dual Sun V2 (with a small modification) but not the Earth. I'm not sure about the White Noise Audio tbh but providing it supplies enough voltage and current to the op-amp socket/s there shouldn't be a problem fitting the discrete modules.
What Model is your White Noise Audio? Does it use single or dual op-amps?
Dave
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 13, 2010 14:03:26 GMT
Hi Freddy, Apologies for the late reply as I've been out of the loop for a bit. The Chiarra works well with the Dual Moon and also the Dual Sun V2 (with a small modification) but not the Earth. I'm not sure about the White Noise Audio tbh but providing it supplies enough voltage and current to the op-amp socket/s there shouldn't be a problem fitting the discrete modules. What Model is your White Noise Audio? Does it use single or dual op-amps? Dave Singles Dave... the stock WNA (all the versions) uses LM6171.
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Post by insomniac on Jun 13, 2010 14:32:56 GMT
Hi Freddy, Apologies for the late reply as I've been out of the loop for a bit. The Chiarra works well with the Dual Moon and also the Dual Sun V2 (with a small modification) but not the Earth. I'm not sure about the White Noise Audio tbh but providing it supplies enough voltage and current to the op-amp socket/s there shouldn't be a problem fitting the discrete modules. What Model is your White Noise Audio? Does it use single or dual op-amps? Dave Singles Dave... the stock WNA (all the versions) uses LM6171. Cheers Mike, I see the LM6171 can get by on 2.5 mA Supply Current whereas the Audio-gd single modules require up to 30 mA. What is the typical WNA op-amp supply voltage Mike, 15V?
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Post by freddypipsqueek on Jun 15, 2010 18:33:53 GMT
Sorry for not thanking you for the replies earlier - Dave & Mike. I have the construction manual for my WNA Mk3 which I could email to you as a PDF. PM me your email address. I have looked at it and understand the 24v input is split into 2, 12v rails, and thus each mono amp has 12v. I do though use a cascode PSU however which has 2 mono PSU 'lines' and thus changes things; beyond me I'm afraid but I do also have the manual for the cascode.
The WNA is my main rig. I was interested in running a couple of "suns" on it. The chiarra in the spare room. Is the mod to the chiarra complicated ?.
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insomniac
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Post by insomniac on Jun 15, 2010 20:42:16 GMT
No worries, PM sent.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 15, 2010 20:53:51 GMT
With the Chiara you'll need a dual GD "module"..... earth, moon or sun will be PERFECT plug in chips..... no probs at all.
With the WNA MKlll you will need 2 x single GD modules (or three if you propose fitting one in the rail splitter)
I have checked my notes re: the Mklll and it's perfectly OK to fit earth, moon or sun.....
Just be sure to disable the LM6171 trimpots. (ie: desolder them out of circuit)
Mike.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 15, 2010 21:06:22 GMT
I'll be happy to fit the GD modules into your WNA MKlll (free of charge).... I'm NOT happy discussing the process "online"..... David White (WNA) and I departed on bad vibes after I pulled out of buying his business (for good reasons)....... contact me via PM and I'll do my best to sort you out Mike.
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Post by insomniac on Jun 15, 2010 21:21:51 GMT
Good info there Mike... I expected that you would have notes and knowledge of the WNA amps, something I'm not familiar with myself. That's a cracking offer Freddy, having the modules fitted and fine tuned by Mike.
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Post by clausdk on Jun 15, 2010 23:35:51 GMT
With the Chiara you'll need a dual GD "module"..... earth, moon or sun will be PERFECT plug in chips..... no probs at all. At my house the sun and chiara does not work together, but it is very good with the moon module, why dual it fits right in or am I just daft ?
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FritzS
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Post by FritzS on Jun 20, 2010 5:51:35 GMT
Sorry for not thanking you for the replies earlier - Dave & Mike. I have the construction manual for my WNA Mk3 which I could email to you as a PDF. PM me your email address. I have looked at it and understand the 24v input is split into 2, 12v rails, and thus each mono amp has 12v. I do though use a cascode PSU however which has 2 mono PSU 'lines' and thus changes things; beyond me I'm afraid but I do also have the manual for the cascode. On the OPA there are only +- 10 V ... each capacitance-multiplier needs 2 V sometimes ago I post parts of the WNA MKII & MKIII schemas here ... if needed please send me a PM PS: I use the WNA MKII with equal rights as my green Solo ... sometimes the WNA seems me more neutral but a (very) little bit darker ...
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Post by PinkFloyd on Aug 2, 2010 20:20:39 GMT
Freddy, I'm happy to report that the Sun modules have been fitted in your WNA MKlll. There was no real "neat" way to fit them in your enclosure (not enough room) so I glued them onto the veroboard.... don't worry, you will be able to remove them if you should ever wish but you'll have to lever them off.... no WAY are these going anywhere in transit / normal use, they are fixed solid! I also had to employ the extension leads but, thankfully, these have not caused a deterioration in sound quality. The glue you see on the sockets is simply "locking" things together.... again, all can be removed with careful prising. Thing is, I don't think you'll WANT to remove them..... I've had the sun's burning in for 4 days now and they sound absolutely gorgeous Superb bass extension, lovely flowing mids and refined treble.... I would class them on the warmer side of neutral, very similar to the AD-843 in signature. There is a "touch" of DC offset but not enough to warrant fitting output caps into the signal path.... the highest it gets up to (once the modules heat up) is 23mV which is negligible IMO..... better with 23mV than two 1000uF non polar electrolytics stitched onto the output. I initially cut the ground leads off cause I'm of the opinion it sounds better (or as good as) without them connected.... I then thought this was a bit "presumptious" of me so I fitted a switch just above the headphone socket..... with the switch in the ON position (down) the sun's ground leads are attached to the amps ground.... with the switch in the OFF position (up) the Sun's ground is disconnected. I've been flicking the switch all day and on certain tracks I prefer the ground "on"..... on others I prefer it "off"..... it really is EXTREMELY subtle and you need ears like a bat, an extremely good source and a high quality pair of headphones to hear it..... just another thing to drive you mad! I'd forgotten just how nice the WNA MKlll could sound..... I'm really enjoying it and it's the first time I've heard it with the cascode PSU..... did you remove the trimpots before shipping the amp by the way? I noticed you had the LM6171 installed, minus trimpots..... erm, that would have been "DC offset city"!! I've seen those LM6171 go as much as a VOLT without trimpots Anyways, no damage done.... all is good now You know, I've become a real fan of the Audio-GD modules (Earth, Moon and Sun) and would use them in everything but they're just too bloomin' big! Very few headphone amps can accomodate their size which is a real shame as they are such lovely sounding devices.... personally, I would go with an oversized enclosure "just" to accomodate the Audio - GD modules but it's not everyone who wants to rehouse their amps to make room for a GD - Module. If they could make the singles on twin boards and the duals on quad boards that would get the "height" down a bit but then we have the problem of width (which is an equally "pain the ass" problem to deal with)...... If only the GD modules could be condensed into something, say, the size of an op-amp we'd be good to go...... oh well, stranger things have happened Freddy..... as discussed, I am doing this free of charge for you but your headphone socket is knackered.... ok for me to fit a new gold plated Neutrik? It will be £3 Mike. BY the way..... noise floor is ZERO.... crank the volco all the way up and all you will hear is inky black silence
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Aug 2, 2010 23:52:59 GMT
Mike, did you ever try one of this modules in an X-Can (the original)? Thanks.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Aug 3, 2010 10:44:25 GMT
Mike, did you ever try one of this modules in an X-Can (the original)? Thanks. They won't fit Miguel.... way too big. Mike.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2010 16:08:04 GMT
Mike, did you ever try one of this modules in an X-Can (the original)? Thanks. They won't fit Miguel.... way too big. Mike. Mike, have you actually measured up for that? I only say this because the subject came up once before. I measured up in a V2, assuming the position of the opamp from photos posted here of the V1. At the time I reckoned, if the main board layout, that's clear of the upper board, is the same between V1 and V2, then the Sun etc should fit with an extention lead (slightly longer than their standard one if memory is ok) laying down to the right side (viewing from front). Just leaving a way of fixing it in place to suss. Waddya fink?
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Post by PinkFloyd on Aug 3, 2010 19:56:03 GMT
They won't fit Miguel.... way too big. Mike. Mike, have you actually measured up for that? I only say this because the subject came up once before. I measured up in a V2, assuming the position of the opamp from photos posted here of the V1. At the time I reckoned, if the main board layout, that's clear of the upper board, is the same between V1 and V2, then the Sun etc should fit with an extention lead (slightly longer than their standard one if memory is ok) laying down to the right side (viewing from front). Just leaving a way of fixing it in place to suss. Waddya fink? Hi Chris, I will be modding a V1 in the next couple of days so will have a really good "size up".... I DO know that no way will they fit directly into an opamp socket in the V1 / V2.
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insomniac
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Post by insomniac on Aug 9, 2010 23:57:59 GMT
Good job there Mike. I thought the extensions might have been a bit tricky to position with them being quite short and also made from heavier gauge wire than usual but you've fitted/routed them in well. Nice to know that the modules are a good match in the WNA, performing and sounding good albeit with the slight DC offset. I've seen offset up to 50mV in some of my gear when fitted with the modules but now just turn the volume down before plugging in any sensitive phones to avoid the initial "crackle"... and touch wood no problems yet. I agree with your findings on the audible difference between "grounded/not grounded" btw... quite difficult to discern but your added switch is a nice little touch.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2010 18:20:03 GMT
You know, I've become a real fan of the Audio-GD modules (Earth, Moon and Sun) and would use them in everything but they're just too bloomin' big! Very few headphone amps can accomodate their size which is a real shame as they are such lovely sounding devices....Mike. Hi Mike, I have a highly mod'd Beresford 7520 (up to Caiman spec) done by Tirna Electronics. I use it around 50% of the time for headphone listening. I'm just exploring possibilities here but would fitting a GD module to the headphone output be possible, and have you any opinion as to whether it would improve the SQ? Not looking for a freebie, I would be very happy to pay you for your efforts and cover return postage. Don't know whether it is significant in terms of this query but my 7520 DAC/HPA is fed by 16.2v linear PSU. Thanks for your consideration, Dave.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Aug 10, 2010 20:25:11 GMT
You know, I've become a real fan of the Audio-GD modules (Earth, Moon and Sun) and would use them in everything but they're just too bloomin' big! Very few headphone amps can accomodate their size which is a real shame as they are such lovely sounding devices....Mike. Hi Mike, I have a highly mod'd Beresford 7520 (up to Caiman spec) done by Tirna Electronics. I use it around 50% of the time for headphone listening. I'm just exploring possibilities here but would fitting a GD module to the headphone output be possible, and have you any opinion as to whether it would improve the SQ? Not looking for a freebie, I would be very happy to pay you for your efforts and cover return postage. Don't know whether it is significant in terms of this query but my 7520 DAC/HPA is fed by 16.2v linear PSU. Thanks for your consideration, Dave. Hi Dave, I have ZERO experience of the Beresford so wouldn't even contemplate working on it, sorry. I've taken on work that's out of my "comfort zone" before and it's got a bad habit of biting me on the arse For example, I offered to work on a guy's McIntosh amp and it took me 8 WEEKS to secure the correct parts... my local delivery guy asked me if I'd have a look at his 1964 Marshall guitar amp.... it's been here 3 months and is a work in progress Nope, I am sorry, from now on I am sticking to what I know with parts I have in stock for a quick turnaround..... these "custom" jobs tend to throw a spanner in the works and get my blood pressure up...... Is the beresford's head stage socketed? If so, what opamp does it employ? Mike.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Aug 10, 2010 20:49:18 GMT
Good job there Mike. I thought the extensions might have been a bit tricky to position with them being quite short and also made from heavier gauge wire than usual but you've fitted/routed them in well. Nice to know that the modules are a good match in the WNA, performing and sounding good albeit with the slight DC offset. I've seen offset up to 50mV in some of my gear when fitted with the modules but now just turn the volume down before plugging in any sensitive phones to avoid the initial "crackle"... and touch wood no problems yet. I agree with your findings on the audible difference between "grounded/not grounded" btw... quite difficult to discern but your added switch is a nice little touch. Dave, Hot melt "glue" mounting was the only practical solution in this instance. Freddy has tried most of the conventional opamps and the impression I got from him was "do what you think sounds best" so I did. As far as I'm concerned his WNA MKlll need never be opened again, it's now time to enjoy the music.... the Sun's are a MAJOR improvement over the stock LM6171 (which come with the kit).... so much more depth, musicality and emotion... they really are special. I thought it a good idea to "switch" the ground.... before I forget Freddy: down / ON = ground in circuit.... up / OFF = ground out of circuit..... simples (as the Meerkat would say). I have replaced the headphone socket with a high quality Neutrik type so there is no more crackling / intermittent contact.... The volume knob pissed me off (for some unknown reason) so I have fitted a very "weighty" chromed top hat knob.... it has a much nicer action / balance with the TDK pot. Are you back from holiday yet Freddy? I will ship your MKlll back as soon as I hear from you.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2010 22:51:22 GMT
Hi Mike, I have a highly mod'd Beresford 7520 (up to Caiman spec) done by Tirna Electronics. I use it around 50% of the time for headphone listening. I'm just exploring possibilities here but would fitting a GD module to the headphone output be possible, and have you any opinion as to whether it would improve the SQ? Not looking for a freebie, I would be very happy to pay you for your efforts and cover return postage. Don't know whether it is significant in terms of this query but my 7520 DAC/HPA is fed by 16.2v linear PSU. Thanks for your consideration, Dave. Hi Dave, I have ZERO experience of the Beresford so wouldn't even contemplate working on it, sorry. I've taken on work that's out of my "comfort zone" before and it's got a bad habit of biting me on the arse For example, I offered to work on a guy's McIntosh amp and it took me 8 WEEKS to secure the correct parts... my local delivery guy asked me if I'd have a look at his 1964 Marshall guitar amp.... it's been here 3 months and is a work in progress Nope, I am sorry, from now on I am sticking to what I know with parts I have in stock for a quick turnaround..... these "custom" jobs tend to throw a spanner in the works and get my blood pressure up...... Is the beresford's head stage socketed? If so, what opamp does it employ? Mike. Mike, No probs, I fully understand your position and accept that it's best you don't learn another hard lesson on my B-DAC . The B-DAC uses 8 pin dual op-amps of various sorts and op-amp rolling is part of the fun. I believe one of the current favourites is A826 (IIRC, my memory aint what it used to be ). If you take a look at the pics on page 1 of this thread you should be able to form some idea of what is used: - theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3058Cheers, Dave.
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Post by freddypipsqueek on Aug 14, 2010 20:36:38 GMT
Mike.
Just got in this evening. From sunny France to rain in the Midlands. A few hours sorting stuff out, an hour making up to the cat, and then a check of the forum.
Your fitting of the op amps was pretty well what I had in mind. I just wasn’t to sure about the exact fitting and exactly how you felt they would be best glued.
Thank you for the switch on the earth connections. I really appreciate your thoughtfulness.
I picked up the WNA second hand so if I’ve fitted the LM6171 incorrectly that is my fault. I fitted them and assumed (as they were originally the stock with the amp) they would be a straight swap for those already in.
I agree with you on the Audio GD op amps. I have fitted a (double) moon to my Chiarra and it’s really lovely.
I’ll send a paypal payment for the headphone socket & volume knob and any other bits. Just PM me with the amount. I’m sorry about the bits of cardboard on the headphone socket – I couldn’t find any suitable washers when I was putting the case back together. The same is true of the volume knob. It stood out from the case when everything went back together and I anticipated a change would be required. Thanks for sorting this also.
I’m not sure what else to say now. A bit tired. I will add another replay when I’ve had a good listen. No immediate hurry sending the amp back - to suit you - and I tempted to suggest that if Dave (insomniac) wants to try it for a couple weeks . . . I don't know what the done thing is here.
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Post by freddypipsqueek on Sept 19, 2010 14:50:29 GMT
My apologies in that work has stopped me posting this earlier.
The Op Amps now have in excess of 100 hours on them (I think Mike had them running for a good while as well) and (noting the advice in the write up) I assume they have settled down.
I cannot compare the Op Amps to the LM6171’s which were fitted before. The amp was away whilst I was away on holiday and it would be silly to try to imagine the original sound. I also reorganised the main cables and fitted a BT mains conditioner which helped the sound (in terms of tightness). The mains conditioner was a bit of a bargain. Finally my QA550 is running of a Kingrex 9v PSU which again makes a difference.
Two things are clear. Firstly the silence. Not in terms of the lack of noise (the USb input on the Arcam BB2 I use seems to induce a very small amount of hum which Mike would not have been subjected to – apparently a design issue) but the difference between the sounds. Secondly the placement. Overall I can pick out what is going on in a way I never could. If I listen to Debbie Harry (Communition) the piano is perfectly placed across the soundstage and the notes can easily be picked out despite everything else – or I can listen to everything else. With the Gorillaz’ (Spyro) the base is so clearly defined it does not confuse the vocals, etc, etc. With St Matthew’s Passion (Bach) the orchestra is placed, the chorus defined, and the lead singers positioned on the stage. The whole picture is there in a way which is captivating. Alicia Keys (Empire State) has a series of “ghost” vocals (they are not echos) which I can now position.
It maybe that there is better sounding kit. In fact there must be. If there is however I know it will only buy me a better seat. I’m already there. And the sound is good from the one I’ve got. I used to listen to my amp when working. I can’t do that now. It is simply too good. I have speakers I can listen to when working. I now have my amp to escape into pleasure.
I suppose the Op Amps are not responsible for this in entirety. The WNA has always impressed me and has always been a jump up from the Chiarra I was using before. This other thing to say is that the WNA & Op Amps partner my HD600’s very well. They also work well with the K701’s. Both have aftermarket cables. With the HD600 however the feeling is that the amp is now filling in the gaps that I always felt the headphones (HD600's) were (just a little bit) too lazy to play. I hope this makes sense.
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Post by freddypipsqueek on Jun 29, 2012 23:22:58 GMT
Mike.
Just spent yet another evening listening to the WNA. Thank You.
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Post by freddypipsqueek on Aug 17, 2012 22:24:36 GMT
Just a quick note to say I've changed the TKD pot for a DACT 20k attenuator. The DACT was an ebay find (£46) otherwise I would not have messed. A noticeable improvement - can't easily explain how beyond saying the space in the soundstage makes it easier to hear stuff.
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