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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 0:26:48 GMT
Hi John, just noted your Invalid License post..................funny thing I went back into the 02 Monitor whilst writing post to Javier and "License Invalid" is gone..................unless it only comes up occasionally. Alan
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 11:38:55 GMT
Alan, if the "License Invalid" is gone it should be for good, very unlikely it will come back. Maybe you needed to reboot, disconnect/reconnect or something else.
Comparing the 02's headphone section to the SandyK would be a little unfair, it works and for the price is not that bad but that is it. I don't think anyone expected its OP275 to exceed the SQ of any dedicated headphone amp and certainly not a high end one, probably even a C'moy would trump it. I have used it once or twice with the H681 and its OK if you have nothing else at hand but not more.
The comparison that would make sense, at least to me, would be a two stage ASUS DS + PK into the amp against a single single stage 02 connecting its line out into the same amp, this is source Vs Source only where the PC side is identical in both cases.
The TI BB PCM1793 chip in the 02 has almost the same specs as the ESS9023 of PK (113dB Vs 112dB DNR), and their performance should not be very different in most aspects. They are both Vout DACs with integrated opamps and their circuit topologies are rather similar though not identical.
Have you tried this?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 16:57:08 GMT
Hi Javier, I had a look at the pic of GUI which you posted and see that it's .......Monitor 02 US [0002]........where as the one I have is .......Monitor 02 US [0001]........ this driver set I downloaded from Musiland.com www.musiland.cn/index.php/Download/show/id/65now this is the driver set for Monitor 03 US driver [1.0.14.0] Yes it's not Monitor 02 but installed on my system and playing yet showing Monitor 02 US [001]. as the interface. This suggests to me that the initialisation drivers are common to 02 and 03 and when you first connect the DAC you get the appropriate interface set for which ever model you have. The [0001] interface is adequate lets you do all the ins and outs...Analog....Dig....Line..... HP....WDM.....Asio. The [0002] interface has more knobs to twiddle.......we all like twiddling knobs. It only bugs me that you have the twiddly one and I don't. I guess that's Chinese Logic. With regard to O2 and Will's PK yes I have tried all ways of tying the O2 to my system and given each a fair try. I'm not here to knock the O2, like yourself I think it's fair for the money and will suit the purpose I bought it for. I'm inclined to think that the same files played out of my PC via the Spdif out of the Asus into the PK then SandyK sound better to my ears than when played via USB into the O2 then SandyK. I take it that is what you mean. But then we all know how our ears differ. Perhaps if we could strip out the O2 power section and hook it up to my JLH line up the O2 would be more on par with the PK. As Alex is showing with his USB power supply mods...... there's a lot in how good the power supply is Regards Alan
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Post by JohnnyBlue on Nov 9, 2011 17:34:04 GMT
Alan I think you might be getting your knickers caught in your USB ports: I think the [0001 -> 0002 -> 0003] in the Musiland control panel refers in some way to the USB port on your PC, into which you've plugged your 02. Still don't know why you haven't got access to the full works, though. I expect El Genio will be along shortly... EDIT: Just noticed you're getting your drivers from somewhere different to mine: you should try looking here, and downloading MlCyMon_2.1.0.0_build20111026.exe,
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 17:38:19 GMT
I'm not home ar the moment and writing in the smartphone is a PITA. I'll answer when I get home in about 4 hours.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 18:04:51 GMT
Hi John, let's have a look at my knickers then through another port!!!! As the sailor said to the actress......any port in a storm.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 18:11:49 GMT
Alan if you really have installead ver 1.0 .14 it is no wonder the knobs aren't working, those drivers are exclusively for the 03. I suggest you follow John's recommendation.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 19:53:09 GMT
Hi Javier, my first install was 1026 which came from Musiland.com That works very well just no knobs........not the knobs aren't working.........it's a different interface to the one you posted.......but it works and the 02 works well.
YES They are identical to 1026 which John has kindly pointed me to. I'm now retracing my steps to 1026 via John's posted link.....thanks John........I will return later after the fresh install and a nice pint of ale to report. However my thinking now is that it's a firmware thingy sitting inside the darling little 02. The Firmware holds the interface files which are loaded into the host computer after the initialisation drivers are loaded. So load drivers 1026/ 1.0 .14 probably both the same instruction set then restart computer plug in 02 and the files you say to, ok run anyway I don't care, are the interface files held either in the firmware set or triggered by it. Hence I'm always going to get the GUI I've got. Answer................update firmware. Sorry Javier I do "Rabbit on" slap me down with the correct explanation if you please Regards, Alan
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 22:16:53 GMT
With regard to O2 and Will's PK yes I have tried all ways of tying the O2 to my system and given each a fair try. I'm not here to knock the O2, like yourself I think it's fair for the money and will suit the purpose I bought it for. I'm inclined to think that the same files played out of my PC via the Spdif out of the Asus into the PK then SandyK sound better to my ears than when played via USB into the O2 then SandyK. I take it that is what you mean. But then we all know how our ears differ. Perhaps if we could strip out the O2 power section and hook it up to my JLH line up the O2 would be more on par with the PK. As Alex is showing with his USB power supply mods...... there's a lot in how good the power supply is Regards Alan Maybe when you try your 02 with proper drivers you'll find it a little better.... or may be not, as you say horses for courses. I'm sure one of them, PK and 02, will measure better than the other in several performance areas like jitter, THD, DNR, IMD or Crosstalk, which one? no idea, unless someone has a very accurate (read expensive) oscilloscope we will never know. But subjective is another story, isn't it? As to modding the 02, I think it would very interesting though could turn to be a little difficult. The 02 uses USB power for the digital section and even if unplugged from the mains its SPDIF out will keep working. The problem replacing that with an external linear PS is if the DAC user the USB power for on/off signaling or any other task. The switched mini PS inside the case power only the analogue section, it is basically to provide some juice for the headphone amp as the line out doesn't really need it like the PK. Another possible tweak could be replacing the opamp for something flashier like a LME49990 or a LME49720 with a steady hand as this is a SOIC and not DIP part. Same with resistors in the analogue path, maybe some thin metal? Caps in my unit are all Nichicon Golds so I think they are quite OK.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2011 22:41:53 GMT
Hi Javier, my first install was 1026 which came from Musiland.com That works very well just no knobs........not the knobs aren't working.........it's a different interface to the one you posted.......but it works and the 02 works well. I'd really like to see a pic of your Musiland's control panel without the knobs. If you get a "License Invalid" the controls won't work a you'll get a very limited funcionality, the same seems to happen if you install the 1.0.14. Try the 1026 following the steps I wrote a few posts before and see if you get lucky this time. I you aren't then download the 0727 using this link: www.musiland.com.cn/downloads/drivers/beta/MlCyMon_2.0.0.0_build20110727.exe However my thinking now is that it's a firmware thingy sitting inside the darling little 02. The Firmware holds the interface files which are loaded into the host computer after the initialisation drivers are loaded. So load drivers 1026/ 1.0 .14 probably both the same instruction set then restart computer plug in 02 and the files you say to, ok run anyway I don't care, are the interface files held either in the firmware set or triggered by it. Hence I'm always going to get the GUI I've got. Answer................update firmware. Sorry Javier I do "Rabbit on" slap me down with the correct explanation if you please Regards, Alan You got me a little lost with that paragraph, I don't quite follow what you are trying to say. Firmware is the resident software that makes the 02 tick, it has nothing to do with the drivers, well it has but not inside the host PC. The 02 is based on a programable FPGA, the firmware is for the 02, basically, its operating system like Windows to the PC. The drivers in the PC communicate with firmware in the 02 so they both need to be compatible and agree on their sets of instructions else errors will happen. Newer drivers sometimes need upgraded firmware because they make calls or use instructions that were not included in the old firmware. The last time Musiland updated its firmware tools was November 2010 and probably it was also the last time they wrote new firmware but I think nobody save Musiland themselves knows if that is true or not.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2011 1:24:26 GMT
Hi Javier, I've just read "that paragraph".................. did I really write that?.....................it's got me confused also. I'm sorry but I can't seem to be able to bring back that GUI which actually was simple and easy to use it had three pages or screens. Wish I had taken pics. I went with John's link that took me to the Download Index where I had taken my first copy of the 1026 on Monday the one which gave me the no knobs GUI and downloaded a fresh copy that went on okay and gave me the new GUI but was very buggy with regard to use of the controls.......lost sound if moved volume controls and some would freeze up. Took that off and went with the 0702 but didn't like that one so thought I'd put back the first 1026 drivers with the nice green simple interface..........from there on drivers failed to load no matter what flavour I tried till I made a manual install of a new download of the 1026 drivers. Result as below is working GUI no bugs 0702
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2011 1:32:19 GMT
So Musiland 02 is being sent off to Santa and wont be opened till Xmas Day I've put the relevant driver files onto a USB stick to go with the 02 that way I hope there will be no faffing around when installed on son's laptop. Just a thought..............I hope the license isn't PC specific. Many thanks for the patient way that you handle this thread it's much appreciated. Alan
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Post by JohnnyBlue on Nov 10, 2011 7:34:52 GMT
Alan Two words: Alt + Print Screen (All right, I suppose it's three words and a symbol, really.) Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2011 12:13:40 GMT
Hi John, is this more to your taste........... Iv'e got into the habit of pointing my small Powershot at everything I want to post here so second nature click the camera............thank you for getting me back on track, Alan
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Post by JohnnyBlue on Nov 10, 2011 12:43:02 GMT
Alan, thanks, you've made an old man very happy!
I notice that you've got your ASIO buffer set to 10ms, changing mine from (the default) 40ms doesn't seem to make any difference: what's it for?
Also your CP must be an older version than 1026, because, a) the display colours are slightly different to mine and, b) I've not got the Auto button on the SR selector panel.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2011 12:59:10 GMT
Mine is like John's, no Auto button too.
The Buffer is to avoid clicks and pops. It is additive to the ones used by the host PC and the player. In a fast computer without too much activity going on the USB it doesn't do much. I've set mine to 10ms too and never have any clicks nor pops.
It may border the paranoid but I also disable unused inputs and outputs, like the Wave "Analog" and "Digital" (I don't use WASAPI or DS) and the SPDIF button in the Digital out section. In case that isn't enough I also move their respective vol sliders to the min. position.
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Post by JohnnyBlue on Nov 10, 2011 13:29:16 GMT
Thanks, Javier, for the ASIO buffer explanation.
I, too, was setting all unused options on the CP to zero, but found that whenever I was playing around (which I do alot, calling it experimenting!) I found it would take me ages to work out which particular slider/button combination would need to be activated to get any sound out!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2011 13:33:15 GMT
Alan, thanks, you've made an old man very happy! Old? I dunno why I didnt think you were..
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Post by JohnnyBlue on Nov 10, 2011 14:14:04 GMT
Not really (60) but it's a phrase I like to use (and have done ever since I saw a cartoon in Playboy about 30 years ago, which featured an old man and a very wide-eyed and shapely young woman strolling arm-in-arm down a well-populated street: the line is his).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2011 21:53:29 GMT
Shit.......sixty that's just the three score wait till you've added the ten and some...............still don't regard myself as old just wearing down a bit......correction most bits. By the way I'm not into making old men happy.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2011 22:08:36 GMT
By the way I'm not into making old men happy. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I'm a kiddo compared to you, feels like I'm visiting Musirassic Park
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2011 22:58:54 GMT
Hi Javier, if you go with that link it will show the GUI I got first time. I must be a very old one. Alan
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2011 23:00:41 GMT
Though I don't understand why it was on 1026 which was the first download I did.
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Post by JohnnyBlue on Nov 11, 2011 7:29:01 GMT
Alan That CP looks very similar to the one I downloaded (under advice) for my wife's W7 64-bit laptop: MlCyMon_1.0.13.0_build20110117.exe. At the time, having just got the Monitor 02, I preferred it as the tabs made it easier to see what was important and what wasn't (then Javier very kindly did a map + directions of the newer CP). BTW, earlier you wrote that you were going to put the drivers on a USB stick for your son: I trust you didn't mean the individual driver files, but rather the whole downloaded installer file (MlCyMon_2.1.0.0_build20111026.exe).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2011 9:31:55 GMT
Hi John, I have to say I also preferred that early interface...............then was seduced by knobs. Whole download plus the licence dat file which appeared after one install. Will be off line for a bit as Javier told me my computer was not old but ancient.............................. well what else would you have in .........................Musirassic Park so it's rebuild day today. Regards, Alan
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