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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2011 11:12:45 GMT
I think I reported that I had bought the Azur DacMagic a little while back? I had run out of digi inputs and didn't want to resort to optical switch boxes.
I studied as many of the reviews as I could find and there seemed to be a theme. Reviewers (IIRC) would say "This DAC is amazing... for the money", or variations on that theme. It seemed they all wanted to report positively but couldn't find a way to say "This DAC is easily as good as a five hundred pound DAC." or perhaps, "This DAC is better than the V-DAC, X-DAC or whatever. It was always described as amazing "at the price".
For example, Sam Tellig in America's Stereophile Mag said...
"Other than that, I've so far avoided the subject of how the DacMagic sounded. In a word, it sounded glorious—far better than you have any right to expect for 400 bucks." But added ".... you might ask for an even wider, deeper soundstage and more gut-wrenching bass.... but for $400, who's complaining?" See what I mean? Not unequivocal is it?
Had mine now for months and it MUST be well run in by now. And the DacMagic is competent but not fabulous. Clean and airy but not the ultimate in it's portrayal of subtle details. It's a bit cold and sterile, though not 'bright' nor 'hard'. When I switch back to my unadulterated (apart from Mike's amazing Pinkie) X-DACv3 then you're back to the land of true hi-end audio (in my opinion anyway).
With the DacMagic you get something that sounds like a 300 quid CD player.. end of. So if you have a crappy budget DVD player as your main source then the DacMagic is a HUGE step up. If you are still using a £180 quid CDP from the late 80's then you'll enjoy what the DacMagic does. However, if If you already have a good source (e.g. my Denon DVD-2900) then the DacMagic is a step back; or at best a step sideways.
So I use my DacMagic for what it's best at; improving the more modest sources. Through mine I play my Freesat+ (satellite) box and have its USB input on 'standby' for occasional rough and ready laptop replay. I also run my Philips streamer into the DacMagic but whether I use the Streamer or the satellite receiver I can pass the optical digi output into the optical input of my X-DAC; the X-DAC co-ax input is reserved solely for my DVD-2900. There is no doubt in my mind that passing my Streamer through the DacMagic and then optically into the X-DAC is better than using the DacMagic alone. One of my sons was visiting last weekend; he is keen on good audio but not a fanatic. He could hear that the X-DAC was doing a far better job and to begin with he believed that swapping DACs around doesn't make enough difference to worry about.
DacMagic? Competent, cheap(ish) but no star. A good co-star, but I wouldn't give it top billing.
Regards,
Derek
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 24, 2011 19:53:37 GMT
No wonder there aren't a lot of pictures of the insides of the DacMagic floating about the net.... what a job opening it!! You undo every single screw on the back panel and expect it to slide out from the front... nope!, think again..... There are a further 5 screws to undo on the INSIDE of the front panel! This requires a very long philips screwdriver and, even then, it's a pretty tricky operation (especially when it comes to refitting them).... the thing is put together like a friggin' tank! Value for money is an understatement, this is extraordinary value for money when you consider what you get for just over £200.... this is certainly NOT cheap rubbish:  That modding firm (Audiocom) criticised the onboard capacitors but I really can't see why. They may have a funny name like "Xunda" but there is nothing funny about the measurements. I tested a few of them and ALL of them were extremely low ESR (0.00 ohm typically), and all were 105C rated.... by no means shitty capacitors.    The film caps were all WIMA types, a highly respected film cap and frequently used in audio applications so there is no "technical" reason the capacitors should be changed. Obviously, changing the caps for a different brand will change the tonal character of the sound and this may be a good idea if you find the DAC doesn't appeal to your taste. When I was under the hood I sprinkled in a few OSCON's, some Panasonic FM's and a couple of Samwha VA's.... I'll go under the hood again at the weekend and fire in some ELNA silmic ll and cerafines in key areas as I find the DAC ever so slightly bright as stock.... I will not be going "full out" on it, just want to change the flavour ever so slightly. I can already hear a difference with the OSCON' and Panasonics, slightly more fluid and liquid mids with tighter / faster bass... I reckon the Silmics / cerafines will add an organic air to the proceedings. I didn't intend to mess about with the caps but it was sitting there naked, I am surrounded by capacitors and just couldn't resist  Anyhooooo, here are a few under the bonnet pics of the Cambridge DacMagic.... doesn't take a degree in economics to see that this puppy is SUPERB value for money:                       |
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xerxes
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Post by xerxes on Feb 24, 2011 20:45:53 GMT
What's that in the 8 pin DIL socket with the white sticker on it? I assume it's the op-amp for the headphone socket.
It's a shame the 4 N5532s aren't socketed it would have been nice to try some alternatives in there to see what they did.
Also, it looks like there's a space for an alternative clock crystal near the USB receiver chip, the square space with X2 printed next to it.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 24, 2011 21:16:08 GMT
What's that in the 8 pin DIL socket with the white sticker on it? I assume it's the op-amp for the headphone socket. It's a shame the 4 N5532s aren't socketed it would have been nice to try some alternatives in there to see what they did. Also, it looks like there's a space for an alternative clock crystal near the USB receiver chip, the square space with X2 printed next to it. I'll have a look at the 8 pin DIL chip next time I'm under the hood Owen, it had a white sticker on it which I removed but didn't recognise the chip.... I'll take a close up shot of it and we can see what it's doing there. I actually "like" the NE5532 but, yes, it would have been nice to have some sockets to abuse  SOIC to Dil8 is not a problem though...... Quite a lot going on in there isn't there? I'm chuffed with it, especially considering the price.... I wasn't expecting it to be THIS good, it's a little cracker  |
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Will
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Post by Will on Feb 24, 2011 21:30:55 GMT
It certainly looks like you get a lot for your money, Mike, not shabby at all!
I noticed the same stuff that Owen did, might be nice to get a schematic if you are going to really go to town. Still, I reckon it better to enjoy some music for the moment.
On the subject of the ne5532 (two per dac chip), can you identify the chip above them? I can't quite make it out, but reckon that changing that IC (if you change any) might have more impact, as it looks like the 5532 are feeding into that for SE output.
The datasheet for the wm8740 suggests that the output uses mc33078(??) feeding into an ad797, but quite nice to see that Cambridge audio have given it a bit of thought, and gone for something else.
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Post by gommer on Feb 24, 2011 21:33:45 GMT
The 8 pin DIL with (removed) sticker is an eeprom. These DPS's need them for loading parameters and/or code.
Normally these things can be programmed over USB with appropriate firmware in a processor, apparently they opted for replacing an eeprom for upgrading.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 24, 2011 22:15:53 GMT
It certainly looks like you get a lot for your money, Mike, not shabby at all! Indeed! Not quite sure how to put this but since it arrived I am "enjoying" the music more.... been quite some time since I air guitared but I seem to be doing it quite a lot with the DacMagic in circuit I could talk about PRAT, imaging and all that bollocks but won't as this thing is doing something even better, it's conveying the "music" to my ears in a "toe tapping" way... you just cannot describe why this should be but I can assure you it's happening  Couldn't live without it now, there's not many components you can say that about... if it were to disappear overnight I would miss it. Remember, it is attached to my "computer as source" system and has drastically improved it. I haven't tried it with any of my CD players yet, could well be that the results are nowhere near as dramatic (or even a backward step) but the introduction of the DM into the computer rig has reaped big rewards and I consider that £200 very well spent. I have been very "anti" computer as source for a long time but now I am beginning to hear what all the fuss is about. I still think it's a very stressful medium (all the different file formats, backing up hard drives, data loss etc. etc.) but WHEN you've got it all working it does sound very good Undoubtedly there will be bigger and better DACs but I am "happy" with this one, it's making nice music and definitely on a par (if not better) than CD as source..... Asus Xonar DX > DacMagic > Panda HPA > HD-600 = enjoyable and engaging listen = Happy bunny  |
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xerxes
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Post by xerxes on Feb 24, 2011 22:38:58 GMT
Come on, it can't be as stressful as vinyl. Must store it upright and not somewhere too warm, else it may warp, handle it carefully, hide it when you have a party incase someone gets a bit "DJ" with it, etc.  |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 24, 2011 22:55:21 GMT
Come on, it can't be as stressful as vinyl. Must store it upright and not somewhere too warm, else it may warp, handle it carefully, hide it when you have a party incase someone gets a bit "DJ" with it, etc. Has your computer ever been struck TWICE by lightning in a six month period? One minute you have a library full of music, the next you have a toasted motherboard  I have never heard of a CD (or an LP) being struck by lightning..... I rest my case |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2011 1:38:25 GMT
Hi Mike I've had one of these DM for about a year now and i must say i agree with your assessment sound wise/VFM spot on.  there is an easy tweak you could try. ;D take the OP from the balanced feeds but only wire up the hot and ground pins of the XLR (so XLR to RCA). takes the signal before it gets to the the last (SE) IC. I've tried it and found a small but noticeable improvement sound wise so i run mine that way. hope that makes sense (even though after reading I'm not sure i understand it)  a cheep trick but worth a go oh yes i almost forgot the AC PSU supplied with my DM ran HOT and i suspect thats where they have cut costs. i swapped mine out for a beefier supply. I'm not sure it changed the sound but i did sleep better. i know you have a LP plan for this and you are going to over spec which is a good idea. ;D take care |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 25, 2011 7:17:27 GMT
Hi Shaun, Yes, I'll put together a Little Pinkie for it this morning, other DM users have reported big improvements using the Pinkie so I am looking forward to listening to it with Pinkie power I understand what you're saying about the balanced outputs but will just leave mine as it is for the time being... I have plans for the XLR outputs at a later date Do you use the filter? I like the sound of the steep filter, it seems to add a tad of warmth.... very good to have three different choices here. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2011 10:42:02 GMT
Hi Shaun, Yes, I'll put together a Little Pinkie for it this morning, other DM users have reported big improvements using the Pinkie so I am looking forward to listening to it with Pinkie power I understand what you're saying about the balanced outputs but will just leave mine as it is for the time being... I have plans for the XLR outputs at a later date Do you use the filter? I like the sound of the steep filter, it seems to add a tad of warmth.... very good to have three different choices here. Hi Mike Let us know how the Pinkie goes  I'm using the linear phase setting as i feel it sounds a touch more open at the top end. but as you say it's nice to have the choice. nice photo's if the internals (i was wondering what was going on in there). ;D take care |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2011 12:23:00 GMT
Hi Shaun, Yes, I'll put together a Little Pinkie for it this morning, other DM users have reported big improvements using the Pinkie so I am looking forward to listening to it with Pinkie power I understand what you're saying about the balanced outputs but will just leave mine as it is for the time being... I have plans for the XLR outputs at a later date Do you use the filter? I like the sound of the steep filter, it seems to add a tad of warmth.... very good to have three different choices here. Hi Mike Let us know how the Pinkie goes I'm using the linear phase setting as i feel it sounds a touch more open at the top end. but as you say it's nice to have the choice. nice photo's if the internals (i was wondering what was going on in there). ;D take care And I prefer the 'Minimum Phase' setting - as you say, good to have the choice. Derek |
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Feb 27, 2011 18:00:21 GMT
I've read this thread with much interest. The DacMagic is also available in Switzerland and I could get one without problems. Maybe it ends up on my wish list for this year but there are quite a few things that are already on that wish list... Meanwhile I have to live with what I already have in the DAC department. I've bought two Behringer FCA202 FireWire audio interfaces a while ago and although they are cheap-as-chips (AFAIK the cheapest FireWire audio interfaces on the market), they sound very pleasant to me. I've posted pics of a disassembled FCA202 a couple of days ago and I'm very interested to hear opinions about the FCA202 innards from people that have more knowledge about electronics than I have. There are a lot of SMD components inside the FCA202 and it's very hard to change them. I've started also a thread about the PreSonus HP4 amp some months ago and I've posted also pics of the disassembled HP4 recently. It's the same as with the DacMagic and the FCA202: Lots of SMD components which are hard to replace. Alex suggested that the MC33079 opamps inside the HP4 maybe are running a little bit hot. The MC33079 is available in SO-14 (used in HP4) and DIP-14 package while both package types use the same chips inside. Alex told me that a possible solution would be to glue heatsinks on top of the SO-14 opamps to improve cooling. I'll do that as soon as I get a new supply of Arctic Silver Thermal Adhesive. I have already heatsinks around since I glued lots of heatsinks on computer chips years ago. Maybe I could do that also with the FCA202 and perhaps it would also make sense with SMD components in other devices. Since my electronic knowledge is still very limited, I'd like to hear also your opinions on that. Christian |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 3, 2011 21:46:39 GMT
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 18, 2011 21:38:45 GMT
Just thought I'd report back on the DacMagic now it has been here for a few months. In a nutshell it has been flawless and has seamessly integrated into my computer's "audio" section. It really is a very versatile little beast with all those inputs / outputs and it is simple to use... just press a button to switch inputs, press another to adjust filter / phase. I swapped out the JBL Control 1 speakers for a pair of Tannoy Eyris 1 (wide bandwith) speakers and these are a LOT better.... absolutely perfect for near field listening (ie: listening when I am typing on here!) the imaging is just sublime and I finding myself sitting back from the keyboard, closing my eyes and getting into the vibe of the music... lovely! My "music room" didn't really progress into anything much, the main reason being that I NEVER sit in it!! I just can't sit in a room listening to music these days so have decided just to keep that room as a "reception" area if I ever get anyone visiting me. Anyhoo, back to the DacMagic.... I am SO glad that I bought it as it has made listening to the music whilst sitting at the computer a real pleasure and not a CD player in sight! It is fed lossless files from the computer and sounds as good as any CD player I've heard. I never thought I'd end up spending the majority of my time sitting at a keyboard but, as I am, why not make the most of it and have nice music playing away right in front of your face I don't think I've ever listened to loudspeakers at such close quarters but the little Tannoys are excellent close up... lightning fast response with incredible imaging abilities... they have really shown me JUST what a capable performer the DacMagic really is. No point sitting here typing a load of BS saying how I can hear the singer farting 35 seconds into track two and can almost taste the rosin on the violinist's bow etc. All just "filler" that type of rambling... "the speakers survived the knuckle rap test and are free from boxy colouration... if they were a building they'd be charging a penny to get in, they are a true brick shit house" etc. etc. yada yada..... Nope, the DacMagic has brought a smile to my face... it is a no bullshit design, it is versatile and makes music sound really involving and enjoyable.... you couldn't ask for more than that for a couple of hundred sovs.... it may not be Hi "Rez" enough for some audio snobs but it makes music sound good and gets my toes tapping so fits the bill perfectly for me. The computer speakers make their music thus..... ASUS Xonar DX optical out into DacMagic Optical in.... DacMagic out into NAD C 315BEE amp's CD input.... NAD C 315BEE powering Tannoy Eyris 1. Not an "expensive" setup by any means but a thousand times better than a pair of active "logitech" speakers being driven from an onboard soundcard..... As I say, PERFECTLY good for my requirements, top quality sound whilst typing and the near field aspect of the speakers really do reveal a lot more detail than if you are listening in the usual "triangle" a few metres away from them. I'm saying it wasn't expensive, let me just add it all up..... £200 for the DacMagic, about £70 for the ASUS Xonar, £150 for the NAD C 315BEE and £299 for the Tannoy Eyris 1 (on sale at Hyper-Fi, they were £699) so a total of £719.... In the world of "audio" £719 for a system is not at all bad... you obviously have to add the cost of the computer onto that! I have hooked the speakers up with the reviewers favourite.... "bellwire" as I don't believe it's worth paying more than 20 pence per metre for a length of copper and certainly not when you wan't to keep the visible wiring as discreet as possible.... lengths of £700 per metre boutique python are nice "bling" on the carpet but I certainly don't want that vulgar looking snake oil cluttering up my tidy desktop. I am not running a headphone amp at the desktop any more as I much prefer the "openness" of the speakers.... I do most of my headphone listening now out in the workshop.... this will change when winter arrives though! Summer is ALWAYS a time for open air listening for me.... I can't be arsed sitting listening to music with ear muffs on my head.... summer is a time to get out and about and shake your "thang".... a time to dance around poles and go hear some "live" music outdoors... summer is NOT the time to be spent indoors evaluating musical ear muffs! The other benefit of the near field monitor is the air coming out of the front ports.... getting a bit warm? Crank up the volume and the speakers double up as a desktop fan .... not a constant wave of air but if you play a 160BPM disco tune you are getting 160 blasts of air on the face per minute.... yeh, that's living I'm gonna be painting my "desktop" in the next few days so here's a picture of it as it is now:  The "music" room has also evolved since I took these pics last year..... will take a few snaps of it as it is now tomorrow.... rockgrotto.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=6379Off to listen to some musician farting on the Hi "Rez" computer system now....I was listening to that Phil Oakey chap the other day (his latest album "Credo") and I SWEAR he sharted his pants when he was singing "night people"... there was definitely a bit of moist "follow through"..... he was like "night people, love night people" and there was a distinct sound of a shart when he hit a high note.... I could almost TASTE it, so real was the insight into the recording.... Phil, being a true pro just carried on singing but the tone of his voice definitely changes at the point he has realised he has sharted his pants. For those of you who don't know what a "shart" is... it is a cross between a shite and a fart.... you let rip and more than "air" comes out.... I reckon Phil sharted his pants after a dodgy "night people" doner kebab.... Ian, if you're reading this.... I am singing "have a banana" (in a cockney lingo) to every space in a song these days.... I just can't help myself! For example.... "the answer my friend is blowing in the wind" and I will come in with "have a banana"...... I could be listening to ANYTHING and have this habit of singing "have a banana"...... "don't you want me baby?" (have a banana) don't you want me ooooooooh" "ground control to Major Tom (have a banana) ground control to Major Tom"..... "yesterday... all my troubles seemed so far away (have a banana) now it looks as tho they're here to stay" "so, so you think you can tell (have a banana) heaven from hell... blue skies from pain, can you tell a green field, from a cold steel rail (have a banana)"..... I am slotting this "have a banana" line into EVERYTHING and it's starting to worry me! I think it's funny, these old cockney songs where this "ave a banana" would come out of nowhere..... "doing the Lambeth walk (ave a banana).... I'm doing it to EVERYTHING now..... "knees up mother Brown (have a banana)"..... "full of desire, temptation (have a banana)"..... I need to lose the "have a banana" thing FAST but everytime I sing it it makes me feel happy.... have you ever come across anything like this (something you can't get out of your head) that makes you smile every time you say it? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2011 9:12:33 GMT
Great looking room and music set up Mike, pleased your enjoying it.
Well done.
Mick.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 19, 2011 21:05:44 GMT
Great looking room and music set up Mike, pleased your enjoying it. Well done. Mick. It's actually a load of "low end" stuff but that's all I need these days..... my days of spending crazy money on audio are well gone, I am a lot more sensible now It's now all about listening to the "music" and not about listening to the "system".... I won't go on and write a book about it but NO "live" music is played through gear with £600 per metre interconnects, gold plated plugs and all that shite and no recording gear utilises "audiophile" components so me attempting to recreate what the recording engineer heard by spending thousands of pounds is not going to work..... I will NEVER be able to recreate a LIVE event in my living room (unless the band are there playing in front of me).... no amount of money will recreate that vibe in front of you. I have stopped listening for flaws and have started listening to the music.... My "mind" is, at last, more receptive to the vibe and, for the first time in my life, I am able to DANCE and AIR GUITAR when listening to my favourite tracks.... I used to be a RIGHT snob and actually told friends (who weren't audiophiles) that they shouldn't be talking whilst listening to the music, they should have their eyes closed while listening and they certainly shouldn't "dance"! They thought I was BONKERS.... turns out, they were RIGHT! When you stop worrying about what other's think, stop worrying about the placement of your speakers, stop worrying about obtaining perfection etc. etc. etc. you actually START enjoying the MUSIC! I can have more fun listening to an old Hacker radio than a good quality (expensive) system these days..... When I sit in front of a very expensive "system" I feel obliged to put on my serious face.... when I am in the kitchen listening to Steve Wright in the afternoon (on the Hacker) I am dancing about and singing at the top of my voice.... I sometimes pick up a broom and do an air guitar solo.... I think that most of us are OCD type personalities and we are all seeking some type of "perfection".... thing is, that perfection doesn't exist and the constant urge to find it is a very insular, unhappy and expensive venture! My way of breaking the pattern was to understand that NOBODY gave a shit.... I would do my best to impress everybody I knew but ALL of them came up with the same thing..... "Sounds great, I could dance to that" etc. etc. I was the one with the problem, not them.... they could get more musical enjoyment from listening to a car radio! Basically, a few years ago, I went into a deep state of depression and when I came out of it I found that I was happy (feeling good) dancing about and singing to tunes on the radio..... I got rid of my loudspeaker "rig" and turned my music room into a spare bedroom.... I had seen the light! I could get MORE enjoyment from an FM radio than I could from a "Hi-Fi" rig..... When I was a child I used to listen to the radio all through the night and my imagination would run riot... no need for a music "video".... I used my mind to paint my own tapestry / adventure. Much the same now.... If I am not enjoying the music it's not because the system is shite it's due to me not being in the mood... simple as that. You have got to be in the right "mood" to enjoy music and now amount of equipment tweaking will get you into the right mood.... when you ARE in the right mood (ready to receive the vibes) you will dance and sing whether you are listening to a crystal radio set or a £500,000 wankfest of a system. This is "FACT" from my own viewpoint and experiences over the years.... your own Mileage may vary. |
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Post by lloydland on Jun 28, 2011 20:11:18 GMT
Have just added a v-link in this set up and have to say I was impressed before with the modded V3 through an I basso D2 then added the Dac Magic in and it was a great improvement and have just added the v-link 20 mins ago and it has transformed it for the better yet again of course its probably the V3 mods just begining to burn in ! The words I would use to sum up v-link addition control and big sound stage . Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2011 20:22:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2011 9:22:29 GMT
Just a small contribution again on this topic. Had a bit of an extended listen via my DacMagic the other day. I am finding the 'Min' filter setting rather special.... it's always been the setting I (and my wife) prefer. First off 'Min' sounds a bit underwhelming. But carry on listening and you realise that that's because it's such a neutral and uncoloured delivery. Particularly valuable with some early (1980s) CDs which can sound a bit rough.
Interestingly when I play hi-res discs containing 24/96 stuff the differences between the three DacMagic filters is not obvious. Anyone else notice this? And surely that's what one would expect; if all the filtering is done so far up in the spectrum then I'd expect filter characteristics to matter less. Over to the experts on this one.
Derek
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Post by lloydland on Jul 30, 2011 16:49:20 GMT
Happy Now! This is where I want to be. Custom rear headphone jack on V3 fitted By Mike no cable clutter !! 
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2011 16:54:32 GMT
Looking good "Lloyd". I assume black fronted Pinkie is for the DacMagic and Silver for the Xcan? Keeps things simple without the need for labels. |
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Post by lloydland on Jul 30, 2011 18:27:46 GMT
Looking good "Lloyd". I assume black fronted Pinkie is for the DacMagic and Silver for the Xcan? Keeps things simple without the need for labels. Yes Thats correct been spread all over the desk for a few weeks. I have been messing around with different configurations etc.... V Link optical Output from i mac .But after all this I am now settled and happy with a USB input to the DAC so I had the cabinet made to make permanent home for it all .Of course with the Mike modded V3 the sound does seem to get warmer and better after burn in . |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jul 30, 2011 20:53:06 GMT
Lloyd, Is that a magnifying glass sitting on top of the printer? I need one of those too.... my arms are just not long enough to read the small print these days.... hopefully, as we evolve, our arms will extend as we get older to compensate for our close vision deficiencies.... I reckon we should all evolve into something like this over the next century.....  |
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Anyhooooo, here are a few under the bonnet pics of the Cambridge DacMagic.... doesn't take a degree in economics to see that this puppy is SUPERB value for money:
SOIC to Dil8 is not a problem though......
I have never heard of a CD (or an LP) being struck by lightning..... I rest my case 
