affordable tabletop CD player

[elysion]

Mar 5, 2011 22:03:49 GMT PinkFloyd said:

Good god man, they don't booby trap the things Just undo the screws and pop the hood

OK, guys, I'll do it sometime in next few weeks. But not this weekend (I'm currently listening to it...). I won't hurry...

I was almost sure that there are only a few screws on the sides and on the back that have to be removed. But I want to know it exactly before I start with it.

The PreSonus HP4 was rather painful to disassemble though, although it wasn't very complicated at all.

Remember the post below?

Feb 24, 2011 19:53:37 GMT PinkFloyd said:

No wonder there aren't a lot of pictures of the insides of the DacMagic floating about the net.... what a job opening it!! You undo every single screw on the back panel and expect it to slide out from the front... nope!, think again..... There are a further 5 screws to undo on the INSIDE of the front panel! This requires a very long philips screwdriver and, even then, it's a pretty tricky operation (especially when it comes to refitting them).... the thing is put together like a friggin' tank!

Wasn't that DacMagic from the same manufacturer as that of the Sonata CD30?

BTW: I've posted photos of two disassembled devices recently. Probably the most detailed inside photos of both in the internet. But beside Alex, almost no one has noticed it... (search for the Behringer FCA202 and PreSonus HP4 threads if you want to know how they look inside )

[elysion]

I've read something interesting in a head-fi thread:

www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/429446/update-got-mine-any-cambridge-audio-cd30-owners-care-to-share

I got the player OK and unpacked it and set it up. It looks very cool. However, there was a problem right off the bat: when you skip forward or backward to the beginning of a track, it frequently will skip the first note. For example: when I play "Driven to Tears" by The Police, it skips the first snare beat. It's almost like it's "fading in" the track by skipping the first hundred milliseconds or so. It does this on all CDs, new and old, when the songs have a "fast" start to them (as in: most rock songs).

Also, the unit emits a very audible buzzing sound when the player is not spinning the disc. However, when playing, it is silent.

Too bad - this player sounds fantastic. The soundstage is very detailed. I've contacted Spearit Sound to see if I can get it fixed, but I'm thinking this is a design flaw, since this line from Cambridge Audio boasts a new transport design. And I'm tired of buzzing CD players...is there such a thing as one that is quiet all of the time?

Also, the remote has a nice solid feel to it....but it is a remote designed for operating every component in the Sonata line, so it has many more functions than needed. No big deal, but FYI.

I've noticed that "fading" also. But I like it. I don't think it "skips the first note". But I hear the "last note" of the previous track. Absolutely no problem for me – quite the contrary... I find this kind of fading makes listening to a CD more comfortable and it's only a very short fading.

I hear NO "very audible buzzing sound when the player is not spinning the disc". (I placed my ear on the Sonata CD30 when the CD was stopped and I hear nothing beside the rather silent fan of my MacMini which is about 30cm away.)

I wouldn't get a Sonata. The clipping occurs most often (read: nearly always) when advancing to the next track or two. There's also an option with the remote where you can just press the number of the track you wish to hear, and it advances or seeks that track. It clips also when using that option. When you play a disc from the beginning, it usually doesn't clip, but it did so once on a ripped and burned CD I had.
One thing about the remote: if you wish to select a track number greater than 9, you have to use a key function, which is an extra step. You have to press /:/ or whatever button, then a 1 or 2 comes up, then you complete the track number and enter it. e.g. to listen to track 24 only, you have to press /:/ (for one) then press /:/ again (for 2), then 4 = track 24. Why did they design it this way? I have no idea. On my NAD player, you simply pressed 2, then 4. Bingo.
Another irritating thing has come to light: when I press the off switch on the front panel, which is supposed to switch it to a low-power mode, it will come back on after awhile, as if to remind you that you need to play a disc. In order to really turn the thing off, you have to turn the power switch off in the back of the unit, which is more of a hassle. Also, when you open the trey, it closes again after a certain period of time, regardless of whether you have another CD loaded or not. It's a bit of a nuisance for me, because sometimes I open the trey and then hunt for another CD. I understand that it may be a good thing for others, though - keeps the trey from being accidentally hit, etc.
The buzzing has actually gotten more quiet....it was never that loud, but certainly audible. It does have shuffle play capability, though.

That "clipping" is no problem for me. I didn't use the remote control to select a specific track with a high track number until now, but I'm sure that my remote control is the same type as his and that this is really a (minor) flaw. But there's a solution if someone can't live with that.

Cambridge Audio published detailed info about the remote control codes of the Sonata CD30:
www.cambridgeaudio.com/assets/documents/CD30_IR_Codes.pdf

It uses a NEC code and there should be a lot of universal remote controls available that will do the job also.

I find also that the open CD tray closes a bit too fast after a certain period of time. If I change CD's, I have to hurry because the tray closes so fast. I don't like that, but I have comprehension for this behaviour. The tray is rather delicate due to its light contruction and a closed CD tray prevents accidental damage. It's also a kind of additional dust protection since the CD tray is never opened for a long time.


While searching for information in the internet, I found a Romanian webpage featuring some modifications to CD players. Perhaps its of interest for some:
www.vicol-audio.ro/tuning.php

The following mods are IMO pretty anal though:
didnt.doit.wisc.edu/audio/CDP/cdp.html

That white stuff (looks like shaving foam) should increase sound quality? ;D

[Deleted]

That white stuff (looks shaving foam) should increase sound quality?

I have seen rope caulk used for dampening several times before. Apparently it does help, and is a lot cheaper than the 3M 2552 aluminium anti vibration adhesive tape that I get excellent results with.
Alex

[elysion]

No danger of damaging the optical lense or other parts with particles from that stuff?

I looks rather weird to me, but I must admit that I've seen it the very first time.

[Deleted]

Mar 6, 2011 2:48:27 GMT elysion said:

No danger of damaging the optical lense or other parts with particles from that stuff?

I looks rather weird to me, but I must admit that I've seen it the very first time.

Have a look at these links.

www.soundstage.com/maxdb/maxdb200006.htm
www.soundstage.com/maxdb/maxdb200007.htm

[PinkFloyd]

Christian.... a lot of manufacturers use this gunk and, as Alex says, it's for damping.... it may not "look" good but it does a good job.

[elysion]

I know what a "rope" is, but I found no 1:1 translation for "caulk". I can imagine what kind of stuff it is, but I'd like to find the correct word for it in German. Is there another expression for it?

What I don't understand: If the main goal is to improve damping, why is the whole inside of that CD player covered with it. AFAIK caps, PCB's, chips etc. don't vibrate at all. And that gunk probably isn't a good thermal conductor and isn't beneficial for temperature of the components. IMO vibration in a CD player has two sources: 1. Vibrations somewhere outside of the case and 2. vibrations inside the case that are related to the motor/mechanics of the CD mechanism.

Is there a way to remove the gunk easily? (Don't worry, I have NO plans to do this inside the Sonata CD30. I'll put a sticker "rope caulk outside" on the case...)

[joethearachnid]

Caulk is what's used on ships of yore to fill the gaps between planks (and newer boats attempting to be ships of yore). It used to be just ropes coated in tar, but it seems that this stuff is probably better. It's wedged between planks and keeps everything watertight - technically. I'd imagine that this stuff is a similar bituminous substance to tar, but probably melts less easily and sets a bit firmer. If it's anything like the marine sealants I've had contact with then it's almost certainly vile stuff that will stick to anything and everything except what you're sealing. Many fruitless hours spent upside down in a boat locker come to mind...

-JoetheArachnid

[PinkFloyd]

Christian.......... "bathroom sealant"

[PinkFloyd]

No danger of damaging the optical lense or other parts with particles from that stuff?

They apply it with a tube, they don't fire it out of a spray gun at random

[PinkFloyd]

Mar 7, 2011 23:46:47 GMT PinkFloyd said:

No danger of damaging the optical lense or other parts with particles from that stuff?

They apply it with a tube, they don't fire it out of a spray gun at random

hmmm...... maybe I was wrong

[elysion]

Maybe I will discover that "V2" means rope caulk added inside the case.

Looks like another reason to open the case?

[PinkFloyd]

Mar 8, 2011 0:07:19 GMT elysion said:

Maybe I will discover that "V2" means rope caulk added inside the case.

Looks like another reason to open the case?

Crack her open like a walnut...... you know you want to!

[elysion]

Now... here they are... the best pics of an open Cambridge Audio Sonata CD30 V2 CD player you will find currently on the internet:


























Opening of the case was rather easy. You have to loose eight screws and mainly it's that. BUT there's a small problem: The frame of the CD player has to plastic/foam sticker directly behind the display section of the front. The front edges of the top cover lie on that plastic stuff (see pics below). Exactly that is the problem: Since the plastic stuff makes the tolerances smaller, it's much harder to loose the top cover while disassembling the CD player and afterwards it's even more tricky to replace the top cover. The good thing about the plastic stuff is that it makes the case somewhat more rigid (and probably more silent... at least if the tolerances between the case frame and the top cover would be to great otherwise). The top cover itself is made of rather thin (and cheap) steel panels. The entire case gets its final strength only in assembled state. I must admit that the quality of the case is still better than with a lot of other audio products. The screws itself are made from a rather good quality.





Maybe you've also noticed the "CD30 V2-A" markings on the yellow parts of the SMPS. I'm absolutely sure now that the whole difference between between the V1 and the V2 is the new PSU. Both have a SMPS, but the V2 has a SMPS with much better efficiency. Perhaps there have been also some minor other changes, but most likely the V2 was introduced to meet current EU laws.

I'm also rather sure that the M1 HPA from Musical Fidelity has an SMPS because of EU laws. I guess it was not their idea to introduce an SMPS. Of course, SMPS have a few advantages over other PSU (mostly a reduction in production cost and end user price, but they are also very efficient, are regulated and offer great flexibility with wide range input and perhaps also with selectable output voltage).

[elysion]

Is that CD mechanism really a distinct development of Cambridge Audio or write they only their name on the CD mechanism?

IMO it looks like it's really developed by Cambridge Audio, just like the PCB whch isn't simply rebranded stuff.

The Wolfson 8716 DAC's are IMO the better chips than the ones used in my Behringer FCA202 FireWire interface. I hear more details with the 8716 and it's quite pleasant to listen. Still, I'm suprised also how good the FCA202 compares to the Sonata CD30 in sound quality. The FCA202 doesn't deliver the better overall sound and there are a few points where the 8716 DACs are superiour to the chips used in the FCA202. But the FCA202 isn't that far away and it has great musicality with almost every amp I have connectod to it. The Sonata CD30 is more picky. I've listened almost only with the CD30 and one of my Neco Mosfet V2's last weekend. The sound was good, but some music focused instantly on very much details instead of delivering music. High resolution and details are useless when the music is gone. Today I've listened with my modified X-Can V3 with a new pair of Philips E88CC Special Quality tubes: What a difference! Everything has smoothed out and the music doesn't sound so much analytical than before. I still hear more details than with the FCA202, but slightly less than with the CD30/Mosfet combo. Overall presentation is IMO a lot better with the CD30/X-Can V3 combo. Probably it's depending also a lot on the music you are listening.

[elysion]

Mar 10, 2011 9:25:26 GMT PinkFloyd said:

I feel sorry for the people who actually buy into this crap! These guys selling those fuses must be laughing their heads off!!!

OK..... a "gold plated" fuse..... shove it into your fuseholder and marvel at the improved sound quality...... hold on a minute, the fuseholder is tin plated.... whoops, what do I do now?

I've almost forgot that the CD30 doesn't have a gold plated fuse.

And it does not have rope caulk inside...

[mrarroyo]

Well ... when will you add the rope caulk?

[elysion]

Mar 13, 2011 17:37:02 GMT mrarroyo said:

Well ... when will you add the rope caulk?

Until the cows come home...

[mrpharmacist]

Dynamat is great for deadening, but quite expensive.

[elysion]

Mar 13, 2011 19:19:34 GMT mrpharmacist said:

Dynamat is great for deadening, but quite expensive.

Yes. That stuff looks better. But you're right, it's a bit expensive.

My demands aren't very high though. I think a rubber mat from the do-it-yourself store would do the job also rather good if it's placed under the CD player.

[mrarroyo]

How much more expensive is the dynamat in you neck of the woods? I mean, I could buy some here in the USA but the S&H would not be cheap.

[elysion]

Mar 15, 2011 10:30:43 GMT mrarroyo said:

How much more expensive is the dynamat in you neck of the woods? I mean, I could buy some here in the USA but the S&H would not be cheap.

At least for myself, I don't see a reason why I really would need Dynamat damping. It's not an absolute high-end CD player. It's "only" a fairly good CD player and maybe one of the best CD players with a small size.

I don't want to spend much money for damping, because I don't have any problems with the CD player so far. I don't expect it to sound twice as good with additional damping. If there's a difference in SQ, then it's only subtle. The basic idea was to buy a fairly good CD player because I didn't have one at all. Damping within the case is IMO more something for people that want the ultimate best performance of their CD player. The SMPS is probably not an ideal PSU for a CD player and I have some doubts that I would hear a big difference with Dynamat damping.

Of course, I'm interested to get from the CD player what's possible, but only if the effort is reasonable (and with noticeable difference in SQ).

I have plan to buy a cheap rubber mat from the do-it-yourself store and to put the Sonata CD30 on top of the rubber mat. A small rack is also planned. Maybe I'm ending up with some "normal" audio rack, but I like to have the CD player beside my main computer at the moment.

Damping with rope caulk sprayed across whole PCB's, covering almost any components on the PCB's, is IMO something for the snake oil department.

There are still only two sources for vibrations that would affect a CD player:
1. Vibrations outside the CD player. Those vibrations can be avoided be de-coupling the case of the CD player from the area on which it's placed.
2. Vibrations inside the CD player have only two sources: Opening/closing the tray and spindle rotation of the CD drive itself. IMO damping is only useful within the case if exactly those two sources are addressed. Opening/closing the tray can't be a problem with normal CD players though. Only CD changers can play a discs while loading another one. Some transformators are also producing a hum which could result also in minor vibrations. IMO that's almost negligible.

I can't imagine that caps and IC's produce any vibrations by themself.

Maybe it's a poltergeist within some CD players? Mine doesn't have one...

BTW: Although I don't think that I need damping inside, feel free to post your experiences with damping. I'm curious how big the increase in SQ could be.

[Deleted]

The SMPS is probably not an ideal PSU for a CD player and I have some doubts that I would hear a big difference with Dynamat damping.

Christian
With many SMPS players, replacing the main bridge rectifier diodes with the fast, slow recovery, BYV26C, and fitting a parallel 100nF 630 V across the main PSU electro can make a very worthwhile difference.As far as sitting on isolation mats etc, if you have a carpeted floor, try sitting the player on that and see if you can hear a difference. When the CD player is used with speakers, it can be affected by sound, especially with LF content, but not to the same extent as with vinyl.The better players go to a lot of trouble with chassis dampening. e.g. Marantz SA11 That is why many of the better players are so heavy.
Alex

[elysion]

I'll try at least a cheap rubber mat from the do-it-yourself store.

The store is quite close, it's almost exactly between my apartment and my workplace.

Maybe I'll try a few different mats. I don't want to spend much money though.

I have also some PE foam around which is 5mm thick.

[mrpharmacist]

I had a fairly large bit of dynamat left over from deadening the platter and chassis of an Ariston RD40 turntable which I simply put on the underside of the top plate of a Rotel cd player. Whereas for a TT the difference was huge, I didn't notice much difference for the cdplayer. Previously though, if I'd flicked the top of the cdplayer it would ring, now nothing at all, just a reassuring 'thop'.
How about some isolation points or sorbothane ? They're pretty pricey too....I've heard another option is to suspend the component on squash balls cut in half.