X Can v3 PSU + Valves

[bingcrosby]

Hi,

I'm looking for a good power supply (not in kit form) to replace the wall wart that comes with the v3 to hopefully improve the detailing and widen the soundstage. I'm looking for something that perhaps also has a on/off switch and a longish cable. It doesn't have to be too over the top, even a good quality wall wart would be OK. Toroidal hopefully or maybe high quality SMPS. I'm also looking for something I can get in Sydney, Australia.

The wall wart says PRI: 230V~50 Hz 77 mA, SEC: 24VCT~500mA. It just has to match the secondary, right? Also, maybe a 240 V primary would be better in Oz or would that be no good for the amp?

Also, I need a new set of valves (atm I have the Jan Phillips originals I think ). I was interested in the Reflector 6N23P-EB, but they no longer seem available. Any other ideas for tubes, and where might I pick them up in Sydney?

Thanks,

Peter.

[mrarroyo]

Peter, you are in luck. Sent Mike (PinkFloyd) a PM and he will set you up with on of his Little Pinkies PSU and a set of tubes. Good luck.

[bingcrosby]

Is there anything maybe a lit cheaper than the pinkie? Or does the stupid MF plug (DIN?) make it impossible to find something off the shelf?

In case anyone wanted to know, I have a Asus Xonar Essence ST soundcard and MF A3.5 CD as sources and HD 650 headphones. I prefer to use the soundcard for headphones because I can use crossfeed.

[Deleted]

The wall wart says PRI: 230V~50 Hz 77 mA, SEC: 24VCT~500mA. It just has to match the secondary, right?
Also, maybe a 240 V primary would be better in Oz or would that be no good for the amp?

bingcrosby
You are unlikely to find something suitable off the shelf in Sydney.
Our mains voltage is now nominally 230V also.
230 V, 50 Hz, As of 2000, the mains supply voltage specified in AS 60038 is 230 V with a tolerance of +10% -6%.
Alex

[bingcrosby]

Perhaps an online store like farnell or amazon?

[bingcrosby]

The reason I ask is that I've been using an onboard TI chip amp on the soundcard (TI6120 with SNR 117 dB), and while it has great detail, it really is far too treble heavy.

So I've been trying my x can v3 again. It's more listenable for sure with software crossfeed now, but it seems to lack detail and width of soundstage. For instance on the three tenors in concert CD, with the chip amp you can hear almost how far they were standing from the mic, but not with the X can v 3. Also, brass seems missing a bit of treble detail. So sound is maybe a bit mushy all in all.

Will the new PS improve this or am I better looking at SS gear?

Cheers.

[PinkFloyd]

Nov 18, 2010 15:36:25 GMT bingcrosby said:

The reason I ask is that I've been using an onboard TI chip amp on the soundcard (TI6120 with SNR 117 dB), and while it has great detail, it really is far too treble heavy.

So I've been trying my x can v3 again. It's more listenable for sure with software crossfeed now, but it seems to lack detail and width of soundstage. For instance on the three tenors in concert CD, with the chip amp you can hear almost how far they were standing from the mic, but not with the X can v 3. Also, brass seems missing a bit of treble detail. So sound is maybe a bit mushy all in all.

Will the new PS improve this or am I better looking at SS gear?

Cheers.

Hi Bing,

You are looking at neither (in the short term) what you are looking for is a better SOURCE. "software" crossfeed will also degenerate the signal further. It wouldn't surprise me if your headphones sounded better connected direct to the soundcard? do you have a front panel head out you could try? A good amp will only "amplify" what it is fed and will most definitely show up any weaknesses in poor source / poor recordings.... adding a good PSU to a good amp with poor source will actually show up the flaws even more

Computer audio STILL isn't my thing but I do know enough about it to tell you that a Xonar output direct into an amp is far from "Hi-Fi". You can polish a turd but it will still smell like a turd.

[bingcrosby]

@ Pink Floyd,

I can tell you for sure I need new valves as one is bunged.

In regards to the Xonar Essence, the onboard headphone amp isn't the best, but most seem to agree that the line out is quite good. I haven't had time to do an AB with my CDP (which btw, was a $2500 AU source). I actually even tried a Naim CDX2 ($9000 here), but I didn't think it was worth it over the MF. So, in short, I'm always hesitant with source upgrades, because usually you have to make enormous leaps in price to get a difference.

Like I said, I really think the crossfeed helps with headphone listening, I just get too tired without. The foobar software plugins actually have a very low noise floor and are calculated at 64 bit. You can also pass a bit perfect ASIO stream to the dac. I'm also moving away from a disc spinner, and coupled with buying a new PC I thought I'd try the Xonar. Not too bad for the money, just the driver making some pops and louds cracks ain't fun.

That said, when using the X can v3 with my CDP, I still would like more detail and a wider sound stage with the amp. Is that possible with an improved PSU and/or mods?

Thanks,

Peter.

[bingcrosby]

I'll even add that I once tested my MF A3.5 CDP vs an old Grundig DVD player into my A3.5 amp and mission 782s, and x can v3 and Senn HD 650s. I could say the MF was maybe 10 % better. I was even struggling to hear the difference.

I never have this problem with speakers or amps. My dad hears the source differences better, I don't I guess.

This may be treason, but I've actually concluded that "source first" is a conspiracy theory of the Hi-Fi industry to sell CDP/DAC quicker because they date faster to much greater speed at which op-amps, DSPs, etc. move at versus amp and speaker tech. So the 782s still compete with speakers in their old price range ten years latter both sonically and technically, but the CDPs will be blown away techinically.

Peace.

[Spirit]

Nov 18, 2010 22:38:05 GMT bingcrosby said:

This may be treason, but I've actually concluded that "source first" is a conspiracy theory of the Hi-Fi industry to sell CDP/DAC quicker because they date faster to much greater speed at which op-amps, DSPs, etc. move at versus amp and speaker tech. So the 782s still compete with speakers in their old price range ten years latter both sonically and technically, but the CDPs will be blown away techinically.

Peace.

It's hardly a fair comparison, but going from an X-Meridian/LM4562 (pretty similar to your Xonar I imagine), to my DIY BuffII dac, I was blown away.

I'm not sure I could blindly pick the differences between line out (from the same card) into hd600s, or output from the modded SCHA into hd600s.

[PinkFloyd]

$$$$ means nothing.

Mike.

[bingcrosby]

Do you have any suggestions for a better source Mike?

And with a good source (whatever that is), does upgrading the PSU on the X can v3 improve detail and SS?

Peter.

[krisno]

bing.... tubes have less detail, less soundstage than any solidstate. Tubes give you magic midrange and realism and organic sound. Everything else suffers I think. Swap the Jan philips in the V3 with russians and you will get alot more details, but less tube "magic" and less sound in upper registers.

Your DAC is good, I would just plug headphones directly in that...... but like Mike says - a good CDP always wins in my opinon. There jitter is probably a cause + that Win7 OS adds to the sound somehow. XP64 is even worse.

[bingcrosby]

The jitter on the sound card it about 10 times lower than that for the CDP.

Windows 7 does not add any jitter. It can re-sample data (and it doesn't do it very well) but you can avoid that too, using ASIO or WASAPI or just using foobar2000's resampler which is high quality.

[Deleted]

Soundstage is NARROWED by crossfeed.
That's what crossfeed does.
It takes a portion of the (lower) frequencies, phase shifts or delays it and adds it to the other channel.

[PinkFloyd]

Nov 18, 2010 23:33:09 GMT @krisno said:

bing.... tubes have less detail, less soundstage than any solidstate. Tubes give you magic midrange and realism and organic sound. Everything else suffers I think. Swap the Jan philips in the V3 with russians and you will get alot more details, but less tube "magic" and less sound in upper registers.

Your DAC is good, I would just plug headphones directly in that...... but like Mike says - a good CDP always wins in my opinon. There jitter is probably a cause + that Win7 OS adds to the sound somehow. XP64 is even worse.

Can you two guys "take it outside"? as far "outside" as you can possibly go.... preferably into the swamp and straight into the quicksand.

[bingcrosby]

Geez, I wasn't trying to start a religious war ...

Yes, crossfeed slightly narrows the soundstage, but it is further narrowed by the stock X can v 3 as opposed to the onboard chip amp.

In terms of better sound straight from the sound card and it getting worse into the headamp, I said that some details were obscured slightly, like for instance, a pianist hitting the keys with their fingernails by accident. Also the soundstage was slightly narrowed. However, overall, it was more pleasant to listen to because of a smoother top end. Ideally, I'd like a combination of the two.

Mike, I'm not sure what you mean't by listening through the front panel headphone out and what I was supposed to ascertain by this?

About listening to poor quality, old recordings, say even 1900-1950, I find a more revealing setup actually sounds better in that, while it also shows more of the crap, it also shows more detail of the original performance that is masked on poorer gear.

I didn't want to start a mud wrestle, I just posted to ask a simple question that if adding a better PSU to the x can v 3 would improve its soundstage and detail, in conjunction with any good source and any good headphone.

I also asked if the reflector valves were still available? And one valve is certainly broken because there is static in one channel and swapping the valves around switches this static.

If anbody wants to recommend me an off the shelf crossfeed device, or a solid state amp or dac, feel free to do so and I would appreciate your opinion.

Thanks and kind regards,

Peter.

[krisno]

I allready gave you the answer..... read my post twice. Tubes = less details, smaller soundstage, less attack and a less focused sound, no matter how you design a tube amp. But it gives you everything else - magic. Realism. Thick and realistic sound. Organic fluid sound.

If you want that, mod your x-can v3 and fix the tubes, if not, then dont.... hehe

[Deleted]

Nov 19, 2010 21:03:20 GMT @krisno said:

I allready gave you the answer..... read my post twice. Tubes = less details, smaller soundstage, less attack and a less focused sound, no matter how you design a tube amp. But it gives you everything else - magic. Realism. Thick and realistic sound. Organic fluid sound.

If you want that, mod your x-can v3 and fix the tubes, if not, then dont.... hehe

Wrong.

Do it again.

Generalised statements like this should be banned.

[krisno]

No honest person would disagree Rabbit. Its a total lie if people think tube amps can be made as detailed and precise as solidstates. Just ask SandyK btw.

[Deleted]

Nov 19, 2010 21:45:04 GMT @krisno said:

No honest person would disagree Rabbit. Its a total lie if people think tube amps can be made as detailed and precise as solidstates. Just ask SandyK btw.

I don't need to ask Alex. I have had high end tube amplifiers here that are unbelievable.

You mislead people with your sweeping statement concerning tubes which has gone on for too long.

Alex will agree that good tube amplifiers are good. The difference is that you pay a premium and SS may be cheaper.

The soundstage is NOT compressed and they are NOT harsh.

I have no idea who has told you this or why you hear it but it is very misleading.

It is getting to be a magic roundabout with you and the X-Cans and tubes.

Get a good source and then tell us how bad they are for christ's sake.

[Deleted]

Nov 19, 2010 22:20:50 GMT @iancraig10 said:

Nov 19, 2010 21:45:04 GMT @krisno said:

No honest person would disagree Rabbit. Its a total lie if people think tube amps can be made as detailed and precise as solidstates. Just ask SandyK btw.

I don't need to ask Alex. I have had high end tube amplifiers here that are unbelievable.

You mislead people with your sweeping statement concerning tubes which has gone on for too long.

Alex will agree that good tube amplifiers are good. The difference is that you pay a premium and SS may be cheaper.

The soundstage is NOT compressed and they are NOT harsh.

I have no idea who has told you this or why you hear it but it is very misleading.

It is getting to be a magic roundabout with you and the X-Cans and tubes.

Get a good source and then tell us how bad they are for christ's sake.

Ian is correct.
The best valve amplifiers use much higher supply rail voltages,and with suitable circuitry, they do not need to have the typical valve "warmth" either.
Unfortunately, they are usually heavy, and well outside my affordability. They also have fairly high ongoing maintenance costs.
Decent valves, especially well matched pairs, do not come cheaply.
Alex

[Deleted]

Thanks Alex.

However, SS will normally represent better value.

But at the level you are talking Krisno, who knows? You're masking the deficiencies of your source and blaming the wrong part.

We have been over and over this but you don't hear anyone.

However, you can believe exactly what you like, but I can't let you mislead people with your sweeping statements.

If your source is harsh and distorted, you can't blame the amp. The amp is doing a good job by exposing the weakness in your system - the source.

However, we've said this over and over and we're all wrong according to you.

At least the guy asking for help has both sides of the coin now.

[krisno]

Let me paste from Headfonia.com, the reviewer: "This WooAudio6 comes with the PDPS upgrade from WooAudio, and it’s already a very fine amp to begin with. However, I really wouldn’t compare it to other amps in the $1,000+ range, as the WooAudio6 can’t compete with the higher priced amplifiers in terms of refinement, details, imaging, et cetera."

And that is a very fine tube amp. I can't believe you guys are even saying it. Try it for gods sake. AKG into tube amp, and then AKG into solidstate - the Panda, or Matrix or whatever your choice. You will see a tremendous difference in microdetails and soundstage.

But I dont want to argue with this. Whatever you are hearing..fine. But I will never accept such a statement. If tubes was better than SS in all regards, why are people using SS then??

Tubes have superior musicality, realism and depth. But it comes at a cost.

[PinkFloyd]

Nov 19, 2010 21:45:04 GMT @krisno said:

No honest person would disagree Rabbit. Its a total lie if people think tube amps can be made as detailed and precise as solidstates. Just ask SandyK btw.

Bullshit! Where do you get all this crap from Kris? The X-CAN V2 is not a proper valve amp anyway so don't base your judgements on it. A proper valve amp sounds a lot nicer than quite a lot of solid state amps do but you are looking at a lot of money AND a lot of money in running costs.

You speak a lot of shite and I agree with Ian, some of your comments should be disallowed as they are SO off base. Fortunately (for you) free speech is allowed here but your general observations on Valve V solid state are SO incorrect, you spew all this crap out of your mouth on a regular basis, I just hope nobody out there takes you seriously.

I am sorry but it had to be said (again) I will not sit here reading all your rubbish and let it pass because it is untrue. Stop generalising (based on your limited experience) and start listening to some different amps.... in ten years time you will look back on these posts and realise what an idiot you were "back then"