Cheap buffer?

[PinkFloyd]

..... or a real good find?

I have one on it's way, let's see

[Deleted]

Oct 18, 2010 22:32:04 GMT PinkFloyd said:

..... or a real good find?

I have one on it's way, let's see

I wonder why they think that most people prefer a blue LED, over the nice subtle warm glow of the valve itself ?

[Deleted]

Oct 18, 2010 22:40:06 GMT @sandyk said:

I wonder why they think that most people prefer a blue LED, over the nice subtle warm glow of the valve itself ?

It's obvious really - they expect to corner the world audio/hi-fi market and want everything to match .
Dave.

[PinkFloyd]

What the hell... the blue light adds a touch of garnish to it.... another little gizmo to illuminate a corner of the dark, can't be bad

Thing I like about it is it has a 12V AC wallwart and I know a guy who can make a nice little PSU for it

[Deleted]

Do you think we're being watched?

Discussion about buffers have been going on here and now we've got a Bravo Buffer!!

Is it the same company?

The light just rings a bell and makes me think Bravo.

[PinkFloyd]

Ian... this company is called Analog King, I don't think they are "Bravo"

[Deleted]

Do you think there's been a walk out at Bravo and they're working for Burger King, sorry Analogue King now?

[PinkFloyd]

The Analog King buffer arrived today and what a cute little thing it is.... a lot smaller than I had expected. It comes with a large AC power brick (almost the same size as the buffer!) and a Chinese chromed pin 6N11 valve (you can also use E88CC / 6922 / E88CC).... it was extremely well packaged and was actually posted from West Drayton (Middlesex) so no customs charges will be applicable.

I had a quick peek under the bonnet and it's very well put together with pretty decent components. My only major criticism is the quad phono block.... it hasn't been screwed to the chassis so will eventually snap off (sooner rather than later) this isn't a problem as a drill bit and a self tapping screw will solve this (I'll show you what I mean tomorrow along with the remedy).



Just as a glowing "toy" this would be worth £39 but for a buffer that actually does a good job? £39 is a steal I have it connected to my NAD T585 at the moment (into a Panda) and it is most definitely adding a valve like gravitas to the proceedings.

Insertion loss is non existant (to the ear) hit the pause button, crank the volco to max and all is dead silent, not even the merest "hint" of noise.... inky black silence.

It has certainly made the presentation a lot more euphonic.... more "weight" to the presentation and ever so slightly "relaxed" at the same time, it is very hard to describe... it's as if the Panda was being fed chemically grown vegetables and is now eating organic vegetables.... I think the Analog King has actually "enhanced" the T585 / Panda for the better (musically) and more so than the likes of an X-10D / X-10 V3.

"Technically" it may be argued that a good CDP doesn't need a buffer but my ears say otherwise (on this occasion), I LIKE the added weight and the slightly more organic type presentation.... nothing is "lost" in the mix, it just seems to be enhanced by this little box.

I'm starting to sound like an old record with all these positive vibes (remember when I used to criticise the arse out of everything?) but there's no way I can criticise this buffer at all.... it is, sonically, magical.

I haven't got a clue who "Analog King" or "Monkey King" are but I can tell you that this is one very competent and musical buffer and it's less than fifty quid!!

I'll fix up the quad phono socket and will be happy to send this out to UK members so they can have a listen.

[Deleted]

"Technically" it may be argued that a good CDP doesn't need a buffer but my ears say otherwise (on this occasion), I LIKE the added weight and the slightly more organic type presentation.... nothing is "lost" in the mix, it just seems to be enhanced by this little box.

Perhaps you just like added colouration ?
The vast majority of affordable CD /DVD players are cold and clinical sounding. This is NOT what is encoded on well produced CDs.

[PinkFloyd]

Oct 26, 2010 21:41:39 GMT @sandyk said:

"Technically" it may be argued that a good CDP doesn't need a buffer but my ears say otherwise (on this occasion), I LIKE the added weight and the slightly more organic type presentation.... nothing is "lost" in the mix, it just seems to be enhanced by this little box.

Perhaps you just like added :'(colouration ?

You may be right Alex, please define "colouration" if you can. Is there such a thing as an "industry standard" sound quality examination we have to pass before we can ENJOY music? Are we "wrong" when we say we had a "good time" at a live rock concert? Are we misguided when the hairs on our neck stand up when we have one of those musical "moments"? Is it verbotten to have an "eargasm" through cheap gear?

The sooner you start listening to the "music" and "NOT" the equipment / measurements the better! The most enjoyable musical experiences I have EVER taken part in have ALL been LIVE!

Floyd at Wembley stadium, for example, 80,000 people packed into the stadium.... the floor VIBRATING with the bass, fireworks / pyrotechnics / lasers... the works......

And you talk of "colouration"? Get fekkin' real man! There is no industry "standard" for music! Music (and music making) should be an enjoyable thing... not a "directive" policed by the all seeing all doing "music Gestapo".....

Why can't we just ENJOY the music without some anal prick telling us "how" we should be enjoying it?

Mike.

[Deleted]

Why can't we just ENJOY the music without some anal prick telling us "how" we should be enjoying it?Mike.

Mike
I clearly said that the average CD player is cold and clinical sounding. You appear to be trying to correct for those shortcomings.
Not everybody has sources that are cold and clinical sounding.
Some members may even wish to use their Panda in conjunction with an R.I.A.A. Phono Preamp ?
Alex

[Deleted]

I am not going to burn my hands on this quibble.

Mike, can you PM me or post pictures of the underside and topside of the PCB ?
Maybe mentioning type number and values (should you ever have time for it) or side view pics where values are visible ?
I will post the schematics as usual if 'retreived' if you are interested in such.
It's pointless to build one yourself as you can't match the price of these.

[PinkFloyd]

Oct 27, 2010 10:09:02 GMT @solderdude said:

I am not going to burn my hands on this quibble.

Mike, can you PM me or post pictures of the underside and topside of the PCB ?
Maybe mentioning type number and values (should you ever have time for it) or side view pics where values are visible ?
I will post the schematics as usual if 'retreived' if you are interested in such.
It's pointless to build one yourself as you can't match the price of these.

I'll get some pics today Frans.... it's nice and sunny

[Deleted]

Are you still ok with its sound Mike?

I do like the Buffer in front of the Panda and might put one infront of the V8. If it helps by adding a bit of beef, that would perhaps help the V8 imo.

[PinkFloyd]

Nov 7, 2010 13:36:50 GMT @iancraig10 said:

Are you still ok with its sound Mike?

I do like the Buffer in front of the Panda and might put one infront of the V8. If it helps by adding a bit of beef, that would perhaps help the V8 imo.

Not too sure Ian,

I was outside taking photos for frans and decided to change all the caps... as good as "Towa" caps may be I thought I'd change them for some panasonic FC / NHG and samwha VA.... up until the cap change I was very happy with the Analogue King (especially the price)... will see what difference (if any) the cap swap brings about.... will have a good listen and, if positive, will then replace the 1N4007 diodes for UF4001 and then try a bit of valve rolling... I must say though, the stock Chinese valve has quite a nice tone to it, chromed pins too....

I will get those pictures up for Frans after dinner and we can hopefully then get this thread up and running with some "technical" insight. I must say, though, in stock guise it is a pretty capable buffer and, for the money, quite the bargain I think

[PinkFloyd]

OK Frans.... here are the "parts"

2SK170 (next to 100R trimpot)
S8050 (A42) Tr1 & TR2
S8550 (A92) TR3 & TR4
Diodes = 1N4007
L7806ACV (6V) regulator.

Here is the bottom of the PCB (I have resoldered it all as there were a few dodgy looking joints, look at the phono joints for example ) I have also supplemented the quad phono socket with a screw so these joints won't loosen like that in future:



Stock parts:








Capacitors removed so you can see values:





New capacitors fitted (panasonic FM, FC, NHG and samwha VA):

[Deleted]

Thanks Mike,

I will commence 'reverse engineering' in a couple of days and post the schematics.

[PinkFloyd]

Nov 7, 2010 19:51:47 GMT @solderdude said:

Thanks Mike,

I will commence 'reverse engineering' in a couple of days and post the schematics.

You got enough there? The board is part marked so I can strip it down to barebones if necessary. Not worth it though as it would cost more to build one than it would to buy one

It will be very valuable info to optimise one of these though

Mike.

[Deleted]

Probably enough.. If not I'll PM you.

[PinkFloyd]

Ian,

I've fired in some UF4001 along with the new caps and have had a good listening session with the Analogue king in front of the Panda. Just like the X-10D it adds that extra little degree of "weight" we both agree "exists" and my ears, honestly, can't pick out much difference between an X-10D in-line and an Analogue King in-line. BOTH alter the presentation and if you LIKE that presentation then it's worth fitting one of these.

I like both! (CDP and CDP / buffer)..... the CDP + buffer (to my ears) slightly "levels" things out a bit and adds a bit of extra weight to the proceeedings. I have tried it with my (now skipping) Marantz CD17 KI and NAD T585 and there is a "difference" in presentation when fitted to both.... I'll say it again, it's a "difference" and not an "improvement" and only an "improvement" if there was something lacking in the first place.

These guys that say only "cheap" sources require a buffer are wrong IMO..... a buffer may not "technically" improve a mega expensive source but it will "definitely" introduce a different signature to the sound.... it's a case of whether or not you prefer that signature, there are no rights or wrongs it's all a matter of what your ears prefer.

I reckon this little buffer would do wonders for cheap sources though (ie: an "improvement").... it is insertion lossless (in the audible "noise" department) and it pretty much does what it says on the tin.... your computer soundcard or your ipod would most definitely benefit from one of these inline.... it's nothing to do with the "glowing" valve either

I have lost the ability to "wax lyrical" about "differences" in sonic signatures / presentation these days... over exposure has dulled my senses.... so I won't even attempt to jism the pro's and cons of this cheap buffer over these pages.... I am starting to feel like an "old record" playing the same tune everytime I rate something and would rather pass it on to someone else to try.

Would you like to hear it? If so, I'll ship it over tomorrow.

Mike.

[PinkFloyd]

Edit.... can't ship it tomorrow, have to do a few measurements on it so Fran's can reverse engineer it

[Deleted]

I have lost the ability to "wax lyrical" about "differences" in sonic signatures / presentation these days... over exposure has dulled my senses.... so I won't even attempt to jism the pro's and cons of this cheap buffer over these pages.... I am starting to feel like an "old record" playing the same tune everytime I rate something and would rather pass it on to someone else to try.

Difference is you're taken seriously and I'm not 'cos I don't know anything about the guts, so I have to rely on what I think I hear!

I find the X10 changes the sound and adds more 'weight' which is actually beneficial to the AKG especially.

I also think (Not absolutely sure) that it is slightly different depending on what it's coming from. Certainly there are improvements from an Ipod and it's more subtle from CDP.

It doesn't do anything drastic and I would say it's not doing anything negative that I can hear, so no harm with one in the line.

I was sneered at in a hi fi shop a few years back for daring to ask if he stocked anything that could play mp3's. Maybe the all knowing git's out of business now eh? What he didn't know was that I was playing wavs on them.

It depends what you're looking for I suppose. I personally find a buffer useful and I don't really mind if it's regarded as poor with regards to hi fi. I like the sound so that's fine!

You know that 38 ohm adapter you made does pull the top of the K701 down really slightly. I've got attuned to it and something is happening up there with that adapter.

There's a buffer that Alex pointed out that looks rather tasty, but it's a helluva price. It's an Australian one. Looks nice so it looks like some people take them seriously.

[Deleted]

Is that King Monkey King? or KFC?

[PinkFloyd]

Nov 8, 2010 23:08:41 GMT @iancraig10 said:

Is that King Monkey King? or KFC?

I think monkey king is part of the Burger King chain.

[Deleted]

The schematic of the Analog King tube buffer.



a better quality pdf:
www.mediafire.com/file/g19cqqtxqg9h4nn/Analog%20King%20tube%20buffer.pdf

The power supply capacitors all have voltages on them that reach or are higher then their maximum voltage rating.
For this reason I strongly recommend the following parts to be replaced as soon as possible:

C3 to 1,000uF 10V or higher rating
C1,C5,C6 to 1,000uF / 25V
C9,C10 to 470uF / 50V
C7,C8 to 1,000uF / 50V

If the parts become too big in size then use smaller capacitances and keep the voltage rating of the recommended values leading.

the other 35V caps have 32V on them which is about the maximum they should get.

The diode D2 that is 'strapped' can be replaced for 1N5817 or SB140.
When this is done the tube's filaments will be receiving 6.3V instead of 6V DC.
Placing the recommended 1N4001 will result in slight overvoltage of the tube (6.5V) and is not recommended.

Thanks to Mike for the measurements and part identification.