jkeny
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Post by jkeny on Oct 10, 2010 16:53:20 GMT
Paul,
Agreed that the battery in the paper is a 10AH LiFePO4 as opposed to A123's 2.3AH LiFePO4 but it is not the absolute impedance that I was drawing attention to but the maintaining of the low impedance out to100KHz for this particular battery chemistry (indeed it's a falling impedance as the frequency rises). I posted this is in reply to stated wish for grottojones & your impedance measurements & Sandyk's statement (& Leo's agreement) that Leo's sonic results seem to indicate an impedance rise at high frequencies.
BTW, in your use of batteries directly running audio devices you reported that the flabby bass was the problem but that mids & highs were fine. Leo reports that sound stage & HF were the problem with no mention of bass. Can these two divergent views be correlated into a meaningful explanation?
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Post by paulhynes on Oct 10, 2010 18:38:49 GMT
John,
I’m aware of the stated high frequency impedance characteristic of the LiFePo4 batteries.
Sandyk and Leo may have thought that Leo’s sonic results were related to a possible impedance rise at high frequencies. I read this as only a suggestion. I have no further comment on this at present.
Leo and I have entirely different systems. The fact that different systems can give differing results for some tests has been mentioned already. As dongiovanni pointed out, this could simply be just the different load on the power supply under test.
I have just done a quick comparison with direct battery connection and battery via the regulator (series type in this case) on my Altmann Dac to refresh my memory of the mid and high frequency characteristics. The gel batteries were freshly charged yesterday and are in good condition. With the battery only feed there is loose bass and the mid and treble are pleasantly warm and sweet without HF edge. The overall sound is a little diffuse but not annoyingly so. With the battery driven regulator the image is definitely more defined and thankfully that annoying bass looseness has gone. The bass is now very good. The overall presentation is rich in texture, powerful and well balanced through the audio band. Timing coherence is better. No edge in the top end. Cymbals are very good, and not splashy on good recordings. They are more clearly defined than with direct battery connection. There are similarities to Leo’s report and in fact he did comment on the bass end, but not in the same way. I think we have to allow for system differences here but I’m sure you will draw your own conclusions from this.
Instead of rooting through everyone’s comments, trying to find meaningful explanation, why don’t you try my suggestion to install the shunt reg you bought last March into a test set up, using a couple of series LiFePo4 batteries to feed it. Then you will know for definite which works best in your modified HiFace and/or on the Sabre AVCC. There is nothing like personal experience.
Regards
Paul
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jkeny
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Post by jkeny on Oct 10, 2010 18:58:58 GMT
Paul,
I'll disregard the sharpness of tone in your post - you may not have meant it?
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Post by paulhynes on Oct 10, 2010 19:38:34 GMT
John,
No sharpness of tone meant, just getting to the point with comments as I have a lot on at present and do not have much spare time. Sorry if you thought there was a barb attached.
Regards
Paul
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Post by PinkFloyd on Oct 10, 2010 21:29:54 GMT
Paul, I'll disregard the sharpness of tone in your post - you may not have meant it? This is NOT a boxing ring and this is NOT a fight. This is a thread about the ESS Saber DAC which was started by Rick (rickcr42) two years ago. This forum is NOT an ego zone and it's not the place to come to if you want an "online" fight. It's all about respecting each others opinions here and not enforcing your opinions on others. It's also about open mindedness and the ability to understand / accept / reject new ideas. We are all responsible adults and there has only been ONE ban of a regular member here in the 6 years this forum has been running. The moderators don't "need" to moderate and don't have the "I know better than you" attitude that is so prevalent on other forums.... the joint is basically "self policing" as we are all responsible adults and know how to shake hands after a punch up and move on.... If this place ever starts resembling "I know better than you" type forums then I will close it down. Please understand that we are a group of people who want to learn from each other and share our knowledge selflessly and without an agenda. That's what this place is about. You may have had bad experiences on other forums and are used to "fighting your corner" but that's not the way it is done over here. It's "audio" we are talking about.... a pleasurable thing.... we are not arguing over primitive war inducing things like "religion" or "race"..... we are talking about musical enjoyment and the best way to achieve that enjoyment..... for everybody, irrespective of how much they can or cannot afford to spend. Have a think about it, have a look round the rest of the forum and understand what we are about here  All the best, Mike. |
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leo
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Post by leo on Oct 10, 2010 22:32:49 GMT
Leo, I'm sorry if I got the numbers or £ wrong – your posted pictures here & elsewhere show a lot of PH regs in your various devices - maybe you should declare the numbers & £ for complete transparency? Regulators are very easily transferred from one dac to another. Trying one set of regulators in different dacs is no problem for me. The best regs stay in the dac I feel is best. I was one of the first to fiddle around with the AVCC supplies going back to the original ES9008 Buffalo.I was sent the regs for evaluation to try in the Buffalo and asked to give an honest opinion which I felt I did . I've tried many regulators and had varying results, for me the PH regs bettered everything else I tried, I've no problem trying alternatives out but will continue to use what I find best. |
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jkeny
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Post by jkeny on Oct 10, 2010 22:34:41 GMT
John, No sharpness of tone meant, just getting to the point with comments as I have a lot on at present and do not have much spare time. Sorry if you thought there was a barb attached. Regards Paul Understood Paul, no problem  Mike, I hear you  |
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leo
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Post by leo on Oct 10, 2010 22:39:34 GMT
Paul, I'll disregard the sharpness of tone in your post - you may not have meant it? This is NOT a boxing ring and this is NOT a fight. This is a thread about the ESS Saber DAC which was started by Rick (rickcr42) two years ago. This forum is NOT an ego zone and it's not the place to come to if you want an "online" fight. It's all about respecting each others opinions here and not enforcing your opinions on others. It's also about open mindedness and the ability to understand / accept / reject new ideas. We are all responsible adults and there has only been ONE ban of a regular member here in the 6 years this forum has been running. The moderators don't "need" to moderate and don't have the "I know better than you" attitude that is so prevalent on other forums.... the joint is basically "self policing" as we are all responsible adults and know how to shake hands after a punch up and move on.... If this place ever starts resembling "I know better than you" type forums then I will close it down. Please understand that we are a group of people who want to learn from each other and share our knowledge selflessly and without an agenda. That's what this place is about. You may have had bad experiences on other forums and are used to "fighting your corner" but that's not the way it is done over here. It's "audio" we are talking about.... a pleasurable thing.... we are not arguing over primitive war inducing things like "religion" or "race"..... we are talking about musical enjoyment and the best way to achieve that enjoyment..... for everybody, irrespective of how much they can or cannot afford to spend. Have a think about it, have a look round the rest of the forum and understand what we are about here All the best, Mike. I'm sorry to see threads go like this. I was asked by others to just post results and opinions on something that I tried, tbh I wish I never bothered  |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Oct 10, 2010 22:41:01 GMT
Mike, I hear you Good stuff |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Oct 10, 2010 22:44:10 GMT
This is NOT a boxing ring and this is NOT a fight. This is a thread about the ESS Saber DAC which was started by Rick (rickcr42) two years ago. This forum is NOT an ego zone and it's not the place to come to if you want an "online" fight. It's all about respecting each others opinions here and not enforcing your opinions on others. It's also about open mindedness and the ability to understand / accept / reject new ideas. We are all responsible adults and there has only been ONE ban of a regular member here in the 6 years this forum has been running. The moderators don't "need" to moderate and don't have the "I know better than you" attitude that is so prevalent on other forums.... the joint is basically "self policing" as we are all responsible adults and know how to shake hands after a punch up and move on.... If this place ever starts resembling "I know better than you" type forums then I will close it down. Please understand that we are a group of people who want to learn from each other and share our knowledge selflessly and without an agenda. That's what this place is about. You may have had bad experiences on other forums and are used to "fighting your corner" but that's not the way it is done over here. It's "audio" we are talking about.... a pleasurable thing.... we are not arguing over primitive war inducing things like "religion" or "race"..... we are talking about musical enjoyment and the best way to achieve that enjoyment..... for everybody, irrespective of how much they can or cannot afford to spend. Have a think about it, have a look round the rest of the forum and understand what we are about here All the best, Mike. I'm sorry to see threads go like this. I was asked by others to just post results and opinions on something that I tried, tbh I wish I never bothered It's cool leo... just a case of making our new members aware that everyone is equal here |
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Will
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Post by Will on Oct 11, 2010 19:58:30 GMT
Well, Leo, I glad that you did! Your help and advice with my B32s (including the time I thought I'd killed it!) have helped bring me a very musical and enjoyable system to enjoy my music on. I'm sure many people who have read this thread feel the same. So Thank You for posting |
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leo
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Post by leo on Oct 11, 2010 22:47:01 GMT
Thanks Will, thats much appreciated |
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Spirit
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Post by Spirit on Oct 13, 2010 4:21:47 GMT
I'd like to echo what Will said! Many thanks for your help Leo, (and for the help you gave to Will - I pestered him even more than I did you  ) I think my sig says it all |
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Spirit
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Post by Spirit on Oct 14, 2010 0:53:25 GMT
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FauDrei
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Post by FauDrei on Oct 17, 2010 0:24:25 GMT
Contemplating to take a chance and see what this hype around ESS is all about...  |
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Will
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Post by Will on Oct 17, 2010 8:39:36 GMT
Contemplating to take a chance and see what this hype around ESS is all about... $260??!! That is incredible value for what you get. As you may gather from the previous pages, supply quality is King with this dac, so hopefully they've done a half decent job in that department. |
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leo
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Post by leo on Oct 17, 2010 8:54:48 GMT
Sharing those many supply lines from a single transformer based psu is going to be a compromise but I totally agree with Will, $260 is bloody good for what you get. At a guess it would probably be a very good contender in this price range
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FauDrei
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Post by FauDrei on Oct 17, 2010 10:48:17 GMT
Thanks guys, you've sealed my decision.
Will report back once I have it.
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Will
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Post by Will on Oct 17, 2010 18:48:17 GMT
Installed some 3.3v Paul Hynes Z170 mini-shunts to my B32s this afternoon, which feed the AVCC of the Dac chip.
Apart from some cack-handedness on my part when installing them, it went well and I'm now wondering why I didn't do this months ago. Bloody brilliant.
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leo
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Post by leo on Oct 22, 2010 23:06:52 GMT
Hi Guys, Just had to post this update, I've linked out the coupling caps in the Legato and removed the 15nf filter caps, using the PH series regs for the AVCC set to 3v45  This is by far the best I've heard the BII  You wouldn't believe the amount of signature those caps was adding. If you try linking the coupling caps out using SE output measure the DC offset, I'd imagine theres going to be a wide variation , I matched the devices and have 4mV one side and 11mV the other. Somebody else reported they have 80mV one side so be very careful, I'd only recommend this mod if your amp uses input caps or some servo . Also removing the 15nf filter caps can give varying results, I found the AVCC supplies even more critical. Probably a pointless post for most but in the right conditions you'll get sound containing very little signature . If you have a warm sounding amp or cans I don't think it would suit |
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leo
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Post by leo on Oct 22, 2010 23:15:27 GMT
In the device we tried them in (high end valve amplifier) they didn't sound like anything , infact the Stealth diodes and various others we compared them against added much more colour . I've no idea how they would perform in something like the BII dac though, they may be poo some of the other diodes added artificial warmth I didn't care for, its all personal taste of course |
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leo
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Post by leo on Oct 22, 2010 23:17:13 GMT
Installed some 3.3v Paul Hynes Z170 mini-shunts to my B32s this afternoon, which feed the AVCC of the Dac chip. Apart from some cack-handedness on my part when installing them, it went well and I'm now wondering why I didn't do this months ago. Bloody brilliant. Nice one Will, let us know how you find them after some run in |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Oct 22, 2010 23:30:17 GMT
Contemplating to take a chance and see what this hype around ESS is all about... $260??!! That is incredible value for what you get. As you may gather from the previous pages, supply quality is King with this dac, so hopefully they've done a half decent job in that department. You couldn't make a tenth of that for $260 if you tried.... excellent VFM |
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leo
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Post by leo on Oct 22, 2010 23:31:31 GMT
BTW I need some 15v transformers to replace the 12v ones so I'm having a look around, I've upped the +v from 12v to 15v DC leaving the -12v DC as is, its supposed to work better with the Legato circuit . 15v transformers would give a more ideal condition for the regs
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Spirit
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Post by Spirit on Oct 23, 2010 0:14:58 GMT
Cheers for your thoughts Leo I'll reassess depending on the bank balance when it comes time to do it... |
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This is by far the best I've heard the BII 
You wouldn't believe the amount of signature those caps was adding.