ESS Saber DAC

[rickcr42]

Way interesting.

not Multi-Bit,not Bitstream but something entirely new :

Hyperstream

Has built in DSD/PCM input interface,built in SPDIF interface,built in OS Filter,built in Jitter Reducer and the output can be configured as a Mono DAC (all 8 channels in parallel),a Stereo DAC,a 4-CH or 8-CH DAC with a claimed performance increase wih each decrease in output channels.

Damn guys.Not much left "outside the box" but pretty cool that there is finally a truly new thing in digital audio without an "i" in front of it (iPod,iPhone,etc)

Links :


blog.stereophile.com/ces2008/011008ess/

www.esstech.com/products/digitalaudio/Sabre%20PF%20080221.pdf

www.esstech.com/products/digitalaudio/digitalaudio.shtm

[pagan]

Rick
I'd gather you've seen this?

www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117238


allan

[rickcr42]

Yes.I "lurk" regularly over there but rarely post even though signed up when there were maybe 25 members and zero activity.Some damn fine reading at times but I have a serious problem with a "trend" that seem to find its way into just about every thread even though if you dig you can still find some real hards core content :

1-for whatever reason they overload every project with every single "possible" so that by the time there is a semi-final design it is so bloated it does not accomplish the original goal and


2-before the thread is even cool someone designs a pcb for sale even if they have ZERO CLUE about the actual circuit operation so end up doing the V1,V2,V3,V4 etc as folks who DO know point out the flaws then the feeding frenzy begins,everyone builds the bloated/overcomplicated thing or

3-someone offers up a design that works and everyone tries to "improve" it without even knowing how or why it works (usually pissing off the originator) because they read some ad copy or a post from another knucklhead without a clue saying why something should be a certain way


The above "trends" lead to a feeling of children allowed access to the candy store with a pocket full of loot and not much adult supervision and I usuallly can't get through an entire thread if it is a popular topic because the hard content gets lost in the fluff.

Personal flaw of mine.I need to be mentaly challenged,to NOT understand something so I have no choice but to do research until I do at which time if the topic interests me I will do my own "in house" eval to determine if the topic is all theory or is actually good audio.
I also have no patience for "hey,We could add the xxx output stage that worked in the xx2b and the YYYY power supply that worked in the X2 and the ............." plug in modules method of design which is probably what keeps me here where most have their own ideas on what works and stick by their guns rather than be easily swayed which tells me they at least LISTEN and make choices based on personal taste/prejudices and not what the pack says is good and tht more often than not is actually terrible when compared to the alternatives

quick sidebar :

you know why the DAC chip manufacturers leave so few options "out of the box" ?

Because they realised most so called "engineers" couldn't do the external building blocks right even when the data sheets spelled out clearly how it should be done so they took away one option after another until finally a DAC chip is pretty much a self contained "DAC" unit requiring not much more than connectors and a power source and maybe some coupling caps.........like the above SABER DAC which leaves very little for outsiders to muck up

[pagan]

Rick
"1-for whatever reason they overload every project with every single "possible" so that by the time there is a semi-final design it is so bloated it does not accomplish the original goal and"

I switch off until something pops up that seems interesting.

2-before the thread is even cool someone designs a pcb for sale even if they have ZERO CLUE about the actual circuit operation

Head-Fi

"The above "trends" lead to a feeling of children allowed access to the candy store with a pocket full of loot and not much adult supervision and I usuallly can't get through an entire thread if it is a popular topic because the hard content gets lost in the fluff."

A little knowledge can be very dangerous, a lot of knowledge can be arrogant.


I do miss Jocko's comments though.

The only way to know about this new Dac is to take it for a test run, then experiment, time will tell.

allan

ps
"like the above SABER DAC which leaves very little for outsiders to muck up"
we'll find a way

[rickcr42]

Head-Fi

Exactly and why I am no longer a part of that scene even though one of the original members (in the first group of 20 or so ) and the Head-Fi DIY Forum moderator for close to five years until "business" got in the way of DIY and in the turf protection for profit got so nasty I STILL have a couple of assholes on my list that better hope we never meet in the flesh.

I do miss Jocko's comments though.

Hard core content backed up with results will never do in an area where any idiot with a PCB CAD program can call his/her self "XXX Labs" so a matter of time before he too could no longer prowl once favorite roads but the good news is his DIYHIFI.ORG site has some great content if you are into reality over fad though like me (not that I put myself in the same calss) does not suffers fools with a nasty mouth on them

The only way to know about this new Dac is to take it for a test run, then experiment, time will tell.

as it should be.Anything based on Audio-SQ should be LISTENED TO not just looked at or run through a battery of static testing since it is music what we are supposed to be about and that is art not,a thing of emotional content and not a bloodless lifeless group of square waves that it seems is more important to reproduce than the performance is (and why we have so many in system nasties creeping in because the circuit has a wider bandwidth than the power supply.To run tests then claim a thing sounds good is no better than watching a program on cooking and claiming the dish TASTES good without ever having tried a single bite.Theory trumping reality and a thing we not only see in the forums but surprisingly from many reviewers as well :

"Amp A sounded great but when I compared Amp a to amp B on the trst bench it was clear Amp b was the better amp even though Amp a sounded better which tells me it sounds better because it is colored and has intentional flaws........."


WTF ?

so a person would actually choose the lesser sounding amp with MUSIC playing because it measured better on the trst bench ?

OK.Poor them ;D

we'll find a way

HELL YES WE WILL !

and then some.we will add EVERY feature ever conceived for a digital device and call it good even if we would have been better off just paralleling all 8-DACs per mono channel,adding a simple DC blocking cap to the outputs as the entire analog stage then powering with a simple Series master V-Reg/Local shunt V-Regs but then where would the fun be in THAT ?

[leo]

I managed to order one of the Buffalo boards using the ESS Sabre, looking forward to trying it

[Deleted]

Leo
You better post some piccies too ! Are you able to find a commercial DAC like the X-DAC V3 to do a comparison with on completion ? I have yet to try putting together a DAC from kits, but could be tempted if performance was good enough.
Alex

[leo]

Sept 14, 2008 21:34:59 GMT @sandyk said:

Leo
You better post some piccies too ! Are you able to find a commercial DAC like the X-DAC V3 to do a comparison with on completion ? I have yet to try putting together a DAC from kits, but could be tempted if performance was good enough.
Alex

I've heard lots of commercial offerings in my own system , Chord dac, Benchmark, Cambridge, Pink Triangle etc etc
The advantage of having friends with plenty of money I get chance to try a lot of commercial units

I've yet to hear anything that made me want to replace the diy offerings so this should be interesting, I've only ever heard a unmodded V3 tbh

If the sound of the Sabre is anything like the specs it should in theory be excellent, I don't get too excited though before hearing it myself

[insomniac]

I am quite interested in this dac too.

Does the buffalo board support the Sabre Premier ES9006 or the more expensive Sabre Reference ES9008S?

Does the board come with the chip already soldered on?

[leo]

The Buffalo uses the ES9008S, the pcb for the dac part comes ready soldered as a module, psu and I/V conversion is separate

I went with external IVY board mainly to get it up and running which is based on OPA1632 differential chips with a LM4562 for the differential to single ended, I still want to try a discrete stage but will do that later

I like the idea the dac has the option of SPDIF or I2S input and also uses time domain jitter eliminator

[insomniac]

Sounds like a nice little dac. That time domain jitter eliminator sounds interesting...I will have to have a read up on that at some point.

It will be good to see how it stacks up against the current dac's in standard form.

[jonclancy]

You got one!!! Niiiiiice! ¦:0)

[leo]

Sept 16, 2008 20:07:41 GMT jonclancy said:

You got one!!! Niiiiiice! ¦:0)

Not yet but a mates ordered me one, just couldn't resist ;D

[minivan]

hey leo, which diy offering u consider is the best? look forward to hear ur impression of the buffalo against this diy dac

[leo]

Best one (well actually my favourite) so far is probably the AYA, I've added a few mods etc to this but so far it offers the best balanced sound to my ears, it was also the most expensive and used by far the most amount of parts
The little Elcheapo dac is actually quite good now since its been modified, it wasn't too great as stock but currently sounds good for such a cheap thing
The modified Ezdac is also very good based on PCM1794, I've added quite a lot of mods to that one too

I've built a lot of dacs, most of the others are not really worth mentioning

One of the worst commercial ones for the price to my ears was the Benchmark, its not crap, far from it but I didn't think it was worth the money at all

[minivan]

the aya look very good, what mod did u do to it to make it sound better? what sound signature it has made u think it 's the best dac u heard?

about the cheapo dac , did u used this as ur final output stage

i am very interested in building this output stage for my zhaolu,
i believe they used the same dac chip.
what brand/type of cap, resistor u used to build that output stage?
and what's the best place to source them?
thanks

[leo]

I use a discrete output stage for the AYA instead of the AD844 common base, the discrete version isn't my design and the agreement was not to post details about it I'm afraid.
The AD844 common base is still very good though, better than the classic op-amp I/V stages that are used in most units with a current output dac

The dac chip was upgraded to a double crown

I added better regulation for the CS8412 and allowed easy bypass for the reclocker when needed

The reason I like this dac is that it sounds less digital/artificial to my ears compared to a lot of other designs, its also neutral and well balanced and goes better with what some others may call revealing and ruthless amps/speakers

Just a note that the AYA I have is the last diy version before the designer went commercial
The latest AYA2 already has better regulation as standard for the CS8412, he now sells half kits, the version I have was just the bare pcb and I had to suply all my own parts



The other discrete stage posted above for the cheapo dac works well, I didn't actually use any fancy parts, the resistors are low noise metal films, the filter caps are polypropylene and the output cap is a 10uf wima MKS, its fed from a lm317/337 regulated supply with a JLH ripple eater
If I used things like Caddock resistors etc it couldn't be classed as a Elcheapo
This stage should work fine with the Zhaolu, its also cheap to build so if you don't happen to like it you haven't lost much, main thing to remember is to feed it a good clean supply
You may also need to tweak the input filter to suit

[minivan]

thanks leo for the informative reply. had learn quiet a few things from u here and there.
i am curious about what transport u used to feed your dac, do u take good care on thing like jitter on the transport/dac interface?

[leo]

Sept 19, 2008 8:54:38 GMT minivan said:

thanks leo for the informative reply. had learn quiet a few things from u here and there.
i am curious about what transport u used to feed your dac, do u take good care on thing like jitter on the transport/dac interface?

I use a range of ways to feed the dac, a modified cdp with upgraded oscillator fed from low noise regulation , some mods added to the spdif output circuit
A highly modified SB3 (mainly for convenience) it uses separate psu's, the internal dac, headphone amp, analogue etc has been disconnected, pulse transformer properly loaded added in the SPDIF out

Currently playing about with a USB to SPDIF converter thing at the moment

[leo]

Anybody else order the Buffalo ? still waiting for mine to arrive

I decided to mod a PFM Flea for 3.3v onboard oscillator , also knocked up some regulated psu's , should be a case of just building the IVY and wiring up when it arrives.

[minivan]

me! still waiting for mine too. this is my first diy project, let's hope i can pull it through on this
i am glad u a on broad on this one, expect lots of silly questions from me.
lots of pics and in dept description would be appreciated.

[leo]

Look what arrived today when I was at work I'll hopefully get a bit of time at the weekend to try it out

The boards are tiny! I went for the bare IVY pcb mainly because I have most parts already

[Deleted]

Leo
I hope Allan is following this thread, as I think he would love this one. Besides, I would love to hear a working one via the Class A. I could be tempted , if it sounds as good as I suspect it may!
Alex

[minivan]

mine also arrive today
alex, if i can't get it working, i will send it to u for a listen

[leo]

Temptation got the better of me I've had it lashed up for about an hour, I need to also check out the different settings.
So whats it sound like so far? well all I can say for now is that it doesn't sound like anything I've heard before
I'm going to have to run it in before commenting too much

The caps on dac board seem to be panny FK which I think is the SMD version of FC or FM, I'm going to leave it running when I go to bed, give it plenty of burning in