X-Can "The Original" In The House

[krisno]

It sounds perfect.... though less detail than hd 600 is not alot..

But I must say this - looking "through" the brightness of this soundcard, the Xonar D1 cannot compare. It is twice as "alive". It really is alot better... But it lacks body and is in general brighter. I really dont want to go into opamp "hell", but I might. I will try to burn it in.

Is there a top version of the ATH AD700? or is that the besto f that line? They hardly need amping either....

[Deleted]

I've had the ath ad 900, 1000.

My least favourite was the 1000. It was like a saw. Treble stung. It's a revealing headphone that is strongly treble-led. Also, I didn't like the quality of the treble - it seemed very 'clattery' so I felt that there was a problem in the lower treble region. Hated the sound of cymbals on them.

The ath ad900 is a supposed improvement on the 700. However, it starts to take on that treble led edge sound again. Not as strongly as the 1000 though.

For me, the sweet spot is the ath ad700.

I would really LOVE to hear the wooden AT headphones. the W series. Miguel has a posh version of the W1000 I think and there is a new version of this. (£600 - £650)

I think I could live with them if I could find a pair at a sensible price.

It only just occurred to me because what you are describing is understandable and the Ad700 sort of sits in between the two headphones you're using.

They don't have the heavy(ish) bass of the HD600 and also not the emphasised top of the K701.

I'm listening to Ozric Tentacles right now on them with a Neco amp actually and it sounds really good. I'm trying out tracks that would emphasise a lack of bass, but these things do give a nice controlled bass. (I have read reports where people have found them too bass light) I personally think that the tone is placed really well.

As for resolution, I also think many people talk tosh. These are a fine, revealing listen and some extent, would probably be at about the right level of headphone for what you are using as a source etc.

It just didn't occur to me until tonight because I'm sitting here with them on my head. They are truly lovely sounding.

If you could borrow some or try some in a shop demo, you may find them to be your answer.

What I do is go to a demonstrator with my K701 and Senn HD650 in a box and compare direct. (Actually, in my case, they are sent to me)

I use the K701 and HD650 as two completely different types of reference in order to judge where a new headphone is placed in terms of tone. Most headphones are in between them but it gives you an idea which way they are. (Bass or treble led)

The ATH ad700 is a treble led headphone with a distinct warmth, which I think Audio Technica feel makes it one of their lesser headphones. For me, it's the better of the cheap ones. I don't really hear a strong emphasis anywhere in the spectrum. Maybe slightly back in the mids, but I compensate by just turning up a fraction for presence. Your ears then adjust.

Then I listen for clarity/resolution. For me, the timbre is one of the more important things, followed by so called 'resolution and headstage third.

It could be your answer.

[elysion]

Jul 5, 2010 20:30:15 GMT @iancraig10 said:

The ATH ad700 may be an answer for you if you are sensitive to top end shrillness

BTW: I have 'phones that have a really shrill top end (maybe better called annoying HF). My HD560 Ovation II's have really nasty HF that is very fatiguing after only half an hour of listening. That's sad because they are very interesting 'phones beside of this issue. Of course, I don't listen a lot to them. I clearly prefer combos that are not fatiguing at all.

Ian, have you seen my recent addition to the LUCAS/DSP Pro thread? The DDTS-30 looks like a good toy, but I'm sure have to try it with something other than the Soundblaster Audigy 2 NX USB. I got a very sharp and pronounced bass with the SB Audigy 2NX in combination with the Surrounder or the DDTS-30. It sounds good first (very impressive), but after rather short listening my ears are fatigued like they are with the Surrounder (both are very close). I guess the SB Audigy 2 NX is (at least part of) the problem.

IMO only a combo that is not fatiguing for long listening is really satisfying me.

[krisno]

This Audiotrack soundcard.... it is somewhat better, but not by that much. The D1 is alot of VALUE for the money. the D1 is also more relaxed, its also less f**king bright. Its darker.... warmer. and just as musical.

If it doesnt improve much this is going to be sold, and that will end this spending spree of mine. It dissapoints me.

Can a opamp swap really make it that much darker then opa 2134 is what is allready in it.

[elysion]

Kris, have you ever thought about an external audio interface? Maybe some FireWire interface.

I have rather cheap USB- and FireWire-interfaces like the UCA222 or the FCA202. Both are IMO a good value for the price. Of course both are not the best interfaces you can get. I get very relaxed, smooth and non-fatiguing sound from them. Perfect for very long listening.

I can't comment about the performance of the UCA222/FCA202 Windows drivers though. I only use Macs with them. The built-in drivers of OSX are very good.

K702+Mosfet+FCA202 is dark enough for me. I guess that I like also dark sound (Dark Ambient for example). The Mosfet V2 really helps here.

[krisno]

Yes... I am just disappointed about the Audiotrak. Its supposed to be some of the best soundcards, and then D1 which is a 7channel card is actually almost as good, and actually suits the AKG even better. its very bright....

[elysion]

The Native Audio 4 DJ USB interface was a real mispurchase for me (see the NI A4DJ thread for more info about that).

It looked like a very good option, but in the end it was not usable for me... We never know exactly how something is unless we had the opportunity to get deeper knowledge about it.

I will sell the NI A4DJ. You can do the same with the Audiotrak if you don't like it. I think, in the end we have both learned something about our mispurchases.

[PinkFloyd]

Jul 5, 2010 21:31:58 GMT @krisno said:

Yes... I am just disappointed about the Audiotrak. Its supposed to be some of the best soundcards, and then D1 which is a 7channel card is actually almost as good, and actually suits the AKG even better. its very bright....

"soundcards".... a minefield.... so many variables associated with them, your computer, the components in your computer, the files on your computer, how they've been copied, where they've been downloaded from.... it's a nightmare!

No way will any one person on the planet get the same results as anybody else as long as these variables exist. PC based audio "done right" can be a very satisfying experience, as SandyK and others will attest but, unless you have everything in the chain pretty much spot on, it can also be the worst possible method of audio playback.

Kris do you actually own any CD's? If so, I will do my best to send you over a CD player for evaluation.... try it for size with your head amp.....

All very well buying a soundcard but what are you slotting it into?.... what are the specs of your computer?

Mike.

[krisno]

Mike

Trust me.... I KNOW!! A standalone CDP is always better in my opinion. I have attested to that for the last 4 years. I use a very nice computer. I built it myself, expensive Corsair PSU, few components, etc.....

This Audiotrak is bright..... probably nice with Senn. But not AKG. Xonars are better for that. But maybe it improves after some burn in..... becomes smoother.

I mean, fine opa2134 might not be the best, but this bright and tinny?? that is something new .....

[Deleted]

A standalone CDP is always better in my opinion. I have attested to that for the last 4 years.
I use a very nice computer. I built it myself, expensive Corsair PSU, few components, etc.....

Krisno
That is absolute garbage. You may have put together a nice P.C , but that is only a small part of the story.
At least you started off with a decent PSU, which is very important to help reduce PSU interaction between sections of the PC.
A decent motherboard is important too, especially the way the 14.318MHZ Master Clock Oscillator is implemented.
It is obviously important to halt all other non essential programs during ripping the CD to reduce PSU demands,
which must affect the ultimate stability of the Master Oscillator and all the PLL derived higher frequencies and frequency dividers..
That also means disabling AntiVirus programs for the duration too.
Disabling Pulse Width Modulated fans controlled by the Motherboard is beneficial too.
You also need a quality CD/DVD ROM, and to use a good ripping program such as EAC using properly cleaned CDs.
Ripping directly to non moving storage such as a USB pen, Solid State HDD etc. is also worthwhile.
Unless you have a special need, stick to ripping as .wav files.
Lossless files such as .flac often sound worse on playback than .wav files (slightly "veiled") due to the need for real time processing which results in increased Processor demands and further PSU demands. This also applies to playing them from an external device such as the WD TV Live via a USB pen.
SandyK

[krisno]

Well - I dont think that is the major contributor.... but fine.

But anyways, Mr. king of solidstate - what to do about this Audiotrak card? It really is some bright shit with the AKGs.... It uses opa2134 as I/V and OPA 2604 as buffer. I have not tried the line-out... you think it will improve after burn in?

how can i find out which opamps in I/V will be darker / better... less harshy / bright

[Deleted]

Krisno
How any particular opamp will sound in any soundcard will be mainly governed by the PSU area of the sound card, and the way the circuit is implemented.
Check your mail . I suggest you just read the contents of both. You will need to download the .pdf mentioned to view it. Just click on the .pdf.
Most members who are serious about the audio from their PC do not use analogue outputs of the soundcard.They use a good DAC via SPDIF etc, or a good DAC from USB via a HiFace in line to greatly improve "jitter" performance. Relatively high levels of"Jitter" usually imparts harshness to the sound and a lack of focus.

[Deleted]

Krisno
See attached
Sandyk
The original message was received at Tue, 6 Jul 2010 09:42:58 +1000
from c122-107-116-121.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au [122.107.116.121]

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(reason: 552 Requested mail action aborted: exceeded storage allocation)

----- Transcript of session follows -----
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554 5.0.0 Service unavailable

[Deleted]

That also means disabling AntiVirus programs for the duration too.

You know, I'd never thought about doing that!! The other thing about ripping to Solid drive is a good tip too. Thanks Alex. You truly are a mine of info!!

Kristian - listen to the man. He knows you know!!!

[Deleted]

Ian
I got caught myself a little while ago.
I had earlier downloaded a 24/96 .flac album from Diana Krall (HD Tracks)
and was converting the album to .wav files , saved on my Corsair Voyager GT, when bluddy Norton decided to do some background tasks !
Alex

[krisno]

Maybe on ripping from CD you wont want too much disturbances, but converting .flac to .wav - everything is 0 and 1's. I really cant see how that will affect the sound.

But well.. that is my own opinion.

[PinkFloyd]

I always disable anti virus / firewall when installing new programs... I know a lot of people download programs / install them from disc and just hit the "run" button.... never a good idea installing something with a load of programs running at the same time.... I'm pretty anal about this and always defrag after installing a new program..... in fact, I defrag once a week.

Yup, same goes when burning a CD... close everything else down (I haven't tried turning the fans off Alex) and allow all the resources to be free to concentrate on the burn.

[Deleted]

Mike
I only turn the front HDD fan off when ripping CDs because the fan's speed is motherboard controlled according to temperature.
At normal temperatures my motherboard controls it's speed using pulse width modulation, which judging by the LED I installed as a reminder to switch it back on again, is about 10 pulses per second. This pulsing current is reflected to a small extent through the system, and also turns a quiet aftermarket fan into a much noisier fan. When the temperature is higher the LED appears to be a constant brightness.
Alex

[Deleted]

in fact, I defrag once a week.

\Mike
That statement got me checking mine. I found 0% fragmentation on all HDDs, with Windows 7 scheduled to do another auto defrag at 1PM tomorrow !
Alex

[Deleted]

Yup, same goes when burning a CD... close everything else down (I haven't tried turning the fans off Alex) and allow all the resources to be free to concentrate on the burn.

Funny you should mention that Mke. The CD you sent me certainly has a kick to it. I put it in my car CD player and it nearly bombed me out of the vehicle.

It's an extremely good copy.

So, it's good night Norton for me when I rip stuff.

[PinkFloyd]

Jul 6, 2010 13:45:09 GMT @iancraig10 said:

Yup, same goes when burning a CD... close everything else down (I haven't tried turning the fans off Alex) and allow all the resources to be free to concentrate on the burn.

Funny you should mention that Mke. The CD you sent me certainly has a kick to it. I put it in my car CD player and it nearly bombed me out of the vehicle.

It's an extremely good copy.

So, it's good night Norton for me when I rip stuff.

Mediastar Pro-Grade CDR (Made in Japan), copied using Clone CD

[krisno]

It would be interesting to do some "placebo" studies on you people.... this sounds abit overboard. But what is not overboard is that the audiotrak is BRIGHT.

[Deleted]

Jul 6, 2010 15:17:52 GMT @krisno said:

It would be interesting to do some "placebo" studies on you people.... this sounds abit overboard. But what is not overboard is that the audiotrak is BRIGHT.

Likewise to 'you' people, I didn't need any help - the CD I compared Mike's to was the one I already have!! I now have two copies of it so I have something to DIRECTLY compare it with.

Kris, you have to stop making assumptions about people and gear. Did you assume that I had no reference then?

[krisno]

The Senn HD 600 works better directly out from the Audiotrak. But it sounds a little unrefined, maybe because of lack of amping..... it is as you know more closed in than the AKG.

I can't really decide on this.... I will see if the Audiotrak becomes better after 100hour "usage".... the easiest is to run it unamped.

I am a bit worried as the audiotrak is bright, and so are the siemens tubes ni the x-can v2. Even though senn abit dark, it might be too much..

K

[Deleted]

Jul 6, 2010 14:06:21 GMT PinkFloyd said:

Jul 6, 2010 13:45:09 GMT @iancraig10 said:

Funny you should mention that Mke. The CD you sent me certainly has a kick to it. I put it in my car CD player and it nearly bombed me out of the vehicle.

It's an extremely good copy.

So, it's good night Norton for me when I rip stuff.

Mediastar Pro-Grade CDR (Made in Japan), copied using Clone CD

Mike, does Clone CD need to be updated much? They give an awful lot of options on the site - up to lifetime updates!!!