HiFiMAN HM-801

[mrarroyo]

Today I received the HM-801 from Fang at Head Direct. It is a loaner for me to review and comment on the sound of this portable unit which is also an usb/coaxial dac w/ a modular aproach. Different amp modules can be use and are under development.

You can read more about this unit at:http://www.head-direct.com/product_detail.php?p=72

I will need to get an SD card to load it up with music which I will do in the next couple of days. Meanwhile here is a picture I took.

[mrarroyo]

I have ordered a Kingston 32GB SD Card type 4. Should arrive by Saturday, more to come.

[FauDrei]

Oh yes... portable with PCM1704. This should be excellent if implemented properly.

Looking forward to your impressions Miguel.

[Deleted]

Looks a nice chunky piece of kit Miguel, website a bit vague regarding the modules that will be available, but looking forward with interest to your thoughts on its performance, its expensive at £550 plus postage, plus around £70 for a decent(class6) 32gb SDHC card, so expecting a very high standard SQ.

[mrarroyo]

The unit is larger than an iPod but it doubles as a USB or Coaxial DAC so it can be used at the office to play your files. Right now I am having a problem due to my ignorance. I switched over to an iMac from a PC and I have yet to convert the Apple Lossless files to FLAC, once I do so I can upload the SD card. For now I am playing 192 kbs MP3's and it is not what I should be doing.

It is fairly easy to use the basic functions, as they are intuitive. More to come.

[mrarroyo]

This are the first impressions on the HM-801 that Fang of Head Direct has loaned me. ;D

I have had the pleasure to both buy and get loaner pieces from Fang in the past and I have been very pleased with his customer service. Needless to say I was excited to try this unit without having to front the $790 asking price. I did have to buy a 32 GB Kingston Type 4 SD Card, I bought it from Newegg for about $85 including S&H. Note: If the initial impressions hold over the next couple of weeks I may have be buying this unit.

Anyways this is not going to be so much an impressions thread but more of what people like me need to do to make this unit work properly. I say this because I am not a very knowledgeable computer person and recently I made the transition to an iMac which further made things very difficult. So the first thing I did was to transfer a large number of my Apple Lossless files to an external USB 250 GB HD. I did this to avoid messing up the iMac which I am just beginning to learn how to use. Once done I took the HD to an old (2004) Dell PC and did a search including starting a thread here on how to convert the ALAC files to FLAC. I intended to give the HM-801 the best possible files, just like I do with my iPods where I use ALAC files.

I took the advice of many and downloaded the trial version of dbpoweramp, of course I did not set it up correctly on the first try nor the second try. This meant I spent about 3 days in converting about 7,300 ALAC files instead of just 1 day. I have to thank all who assisted this "old fart" in learning (at least partially) a new software and method to convert files. BTW, not all of the 3 days were lost since I had to wait for the 32 GB SD Card to arrive.

So today I finally was able to load about 1,150 FLAC files unto the 32 GB SD Card and I have been able to finally listen to the HM-801. I need to learn how to navigate through the various buttons specially to locate specific songs, until I learn it is a pain to find songs and I am just listening in the same order I loaded the files in. Luckily I loaded them alphabetically so it is not a total pain to use.

As you probably know the HM-801 retails for $790 plus if you wish to have the same capacity as an iPod Classic you would need five 32 GB SD Cards at about another $410 (some savings in S&H are realized) for a grand total of $1,200 as compared with about $850 for an iPod Classic, good amp, and a good line out dock. The HM-801 by itself is larger than an iPod but when you through in the amp and line out dock the HM-801 is smaller. Since I am comparing the two I should mention the iPod Classic play time is about 3 time that of the HM-801, say 25 hours to 8 hours both using lossless files.

As far as carrying the HM-801 I am not aware of any case for it so IMO it is more of a transportable unless you do not mind risking damaging the HM-801 by carrying on a cargo pant pocket. I guess a camera bag would work as an alternative for many so it may not be too bad of an option.

For the first listen I used a HiFiMAN RE-252 IEM and a Grado RS-1 with the 1/4" to 1/8" Grado converter. The first two songs were by Nina Simone and Nicole Henry and I also asked "she who must be obeyed" to listen and provide feedback. How does it sound? To this old tired ears it has more detail, clarity, and treble extension than an iPod Classic 6th Generation, iPhone 3G, and Nano 2nd Generation. I also hear more air between notes and female vocals are more engaging and it is easier to understand the words being sung (weird ain't it). Again this are very quick impressions and I will let the "new toy" mentality settle over the next couple of weeks before I can truly say more.

If I was to start a wish list it would include:

1. A better instruction manual either electronic or hardcopy.
2. Longer play time, I would suggest a 20 hour target.
3. A way to shut down the screen to extend the battery life.
4. Inclusion of a case, even if it adds $30.
5. The case should have a place to carry an additional two SD Cards.
6. Ability to use the upcoming 64 GB and 128 GB SD Cards.
7. Gapless which I believe it is being worked on as we speak.
8. A more common A/C plug into the HM-801 so it would be easier to secure wall warts replacements in the future.

I hope to be able to add more in the next couple of weeks.

Cheers.

PD: Sorry for the long post.

[Deleted]

Hmmm..

Now I know why it sounds different and warmer..
Same trick as the Novo and unmodded Indeed and headsix amplifiers.
Rolled off highs... big time.

rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons/Hifiman%20vs%20Clip%20vs%20Clip+%20vs%20H300/fr.png

Interesting site b.t.w. for those that like these kind of devices.

You pay a lot of money and get less treble in return ... go figure

[mrarroyo]

I saw that site as well, but I can say without a doubt it does not sound as represented by said graph. I have had others listen to the unit both with headphones and as a source for my speaker setup. All so far have agreed the HM-801 sounds far better than the iPod and iPhone (via dock out).

[Deleted]

I have checked the graph of my Fuze (= same as Clip+) and it mathes the represented graphs exactly as did the ipod (from a friend).
There is NO doubt in my mind the represented graph is very accurate as are the graphs of all other equipment on that site.
The shown graph looks accurate to me.
The site looks rigid and since they only thouroughly test the best sounding and hyped DAP's they get a thumbs up from me
They are also independant which is important to me.

I instantly believe the HM801 does sound good and far better then Ipod (these do not sound as good as many peep think, it's more hyped then people like to admit (sorry i-xxx fans )
Doc-ed and loaded with an amp there is little wrong with the SQ of ipods e.t.c. only when loaded directly with a HP the deepest lows are rolled off (check the graphs on the same site)

The HM801 should sound good ... especially for that price.
For me personally it's different sound signature is explained (as is Novo's and headsix amp e.t.c.)
People like these rolled of highs especially when it is not obvious and done 'subtle and gradual'.
I do NOT.... if I want rolled off highs I just use the custom EQ and tone the highest freq. down a bit.
The graph looks 'extremely rolled off' but look at the dB scale !
It is a comparative graph with a very small dB scale to show even minor differences.

I posted the graph so potential buyers will know the actual specs of this device and can see the sound is 'taylored'
If they don't care at all about this and only use their ears.. they will be pleased.
In the future they will probably have more plugin modules with other frequency ranges so you can make slight 'personal preferences adjsutments' of the sound ?

[FauDrei]

Well, you can look at this also this way:

EMU-0404 has ruler flat frequency response and should look like a star on the solderdude's graph...

...on the other hand "old" Mark Levinson 30.6 has highs rolled off in HM-801 manner and would look "bad" just like HM-801 on the same graph.

Which one would you prefer? The superspeced toy or one of the best DACs ever made?

Point here is: in modern ΔΣ designs, as in "old" R2R ones, you can tweak all the specs to perfection - but ultimately it is the sound quality that matter. Those old PCM1704 R2R DAC chips, which you can find in aforementioned 30.6 (and, look at this! - HM-801), have naturally rolled off treble. You can call it chip "signature" if you want, but it does not matter because any rolloff can be controlled and tweaked in filtering before conversion (those chips that do also fancy oversamplings, upsamplings & stuff...). Why Levinson (and HiFiMAN) decided to use such "frequency flawed" chips while in the same time failed to filter-fix it's frequency response to perfection? Most probably because of the frequency specter of "natural" sounds - vast majority of sound energy is in low frequencies and carried energy goes down as frequency goes up. This is why, when you listen to them, "bad specced oddities" can have treble "to die for" while "best in the class specced shinies" can deaf you with their treble shrill.

Just my point of view...

[Deleted]

"Frequency response... amusing, especially considering the Hifiman is advertised as 24/96-capable, yet it doesn't even reproduce 16/44 treble to its fullest:"

Hifiman HM-801 RMAA Tests

anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54879

(http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/490698/hifiman-hm-801-rmaa-tests)

[Deleted]

The frequency curve of the HM-801 really has nothing to do with the used DAC but everything with post filtering.
It is done deliberately as is the curve of the Novo and headsix is made that way on purpose.

So YES, the curve is correct and the HM-801 HAS rolled off treble making it sound different.

It DOES sound good... I do not dispute that even when I did not hear it I can already tell it sounds fuller and sweeter as when the same player would have had a straight freq. graph like the clip (Fuze) Iriver e.t.c..
But the curve is taylor made like this and it does sound different then clip+ or other perfectly straight DAP/DAC's.
It is also THE reason why it sounds nice(r) regardless how one feels about it and that it all boils down to magic.

I merely pointed out that I like everything to be straight and when I want to alter the sound I can do that myself using the desired level of roll off.

The graph I pointed to is the same as in Alex's link above.

this is a quote from the HM-801 designer admitting he taylored the frequency response in order to let it sound warmer:

>>>

Hi dfkt,

We appreciate your help very much to finish the RMAA test of HM-801. As the chief orgnizer of HM-801 project, I wish to explain some issues here.

In our experience of design the portable PCM1704 source (HM-801), we noticed similar observation of freq graph. The flater plot we had, the more "digital" sound we heard. Actually lots of flat plot source (for example, most Japanese CD players) are very "digital" sound signature, cold and harsh. Wadia 861 is a perfect example of hi-end player with high freq roll-off. Normally the top plot is the test result with load, the bottom plot is the result without any load.

>>>

[Deleted]

Actually lots of flat plot source (for example, most Japanese CD players) are very "digital" sound signature, cold and harsh

That is absolute bullshit. "Digital" sound signature is rubbish.
Properly implemented digital is non fatigueing, and not in the least bit cold and harsh unless the source material is.
I feel sure that the owners of the Buffalo DAC and other good DACs would agree with me too. Poor power supplies that allow a degree of interaction between analogue and digital sections, and subsections, is a major part of the problem.

SandyK

[Deleted]

I agree !

That's just how HifiMan feels/thinks so they 'subdue' a little itsy bitsy highs to make the sound (of more recordings) more pleasing.
I prefer to do that myself when needed and not have it decided for me by a manufacturer.

[PinkFloyd]

Jun 6, 2010 12:43:48 GMT mrarroyo said:

Right now I am having a problem due to my ignorance. I switched over to an iMac from a PC and I have yet to convert the Apple Lossless files to FLAC, once I do so I can upload the SD card. For now I am playing 192 kbs MP3's and it is not what I should be doing.

Years ago it was a simple case of walking into a record shop, buying a recording of your choice, carrying it home and playing it on one of these things:



People actually "danced" around these Dansette "all in one" record players and got great pleasure from them.

Nowadays we have to sit at a computer screen (totally bamboozled) downloading music, convertors blah blah blah.... we spend ages finding the right "DAC" and the best "amp".... it's all very stressful.

Music shouldn't be this stressful! What we need today is an "all in one" device like the old Dansette where you simply plug it in and hit the play button.... it's all too stressful these days

[mrarroyo]

You made me laugh Mike. BTW dbpoweramp solved the problem.

[rowuk]

Jul 2, 2010 21:02:07 GMT PinkFloyd said:

Jun 6, 2010 12:43:48 GMT mrarroyo said:

Right now I am having a problem due to my ignorance. I switched over to an iMac from a PC and I have yet to convert the Apple Lossless files to FLAC, once I do so I can upload the SD card. For now I am playing 192 kbs MP3's and it is not what I should be doing.

Years ago it was a simple case of walking into a record shop, buying a recording of your choice, carrying it home and playing it on one of these things:



People actually "danced" around these Dansette "all in one" record players and got great pleasure from them.

Nowadays we have to sit at a computer screen (totally bamboozled) downloading music, convertors blah blah blah.... we spend ages finding the right "DAC" and the best "amp".... it's all very stressful.

Music shouldn't be this stressful! What we need today is an "all in one" device like the old Dansette where you simply plug it in and hit the play button.... it's all too stressful these days

Yeah, and after every play, the sound got nicer because the high frequency component of the groove was mowed down by the NEEDLE.