Oops, I did it again: Behringer F-Control FCA202

[elysion]

Oops, I did it again: I've bought the Behringer F-Control FCA202 FireWire interface today.

www.behringer.de/EN/Products/FCA202.aspx

I can't say much about the sound quality since I've had it plugged in to my Mac only a couple of minutes.

But one thing is already sure: Sound quality is better than with the UCA222 overall. It has more resolution (it's a 24-bit/96KHz FireWire interface). I'm rather sure it has also some of the sweetness that the UCA222 offers together with the Neco Mosfet V.2. I have to put the pot of the Mosfet (my first unit with log pot) a little above 10:00 for comfortable long time listening. It's slightly more than what is needed with the UCA222 USB interface (about 9:00 there). Maybe the FCA202 isn't so totally soft as the UCA222, maybe this is a drawback of the higher resolution.

The FCA202 can be powered entirely by FireWire bus power, but it has also an external PSU which is used primarily when the interface is used with a 4-pin FW400 port (which delivers no power at all). I'm using it with the FW800 port of my MacMini through a FW800-to-FW400 cable (bus-powered).

Installation on the Mac is totally easy. This FireWire interface works with the built-in OSX drivers. Just plug it it and select it as input/output audio device in OSX System Preferences. Sample-/bit-rate settings are made as usual in the Audio-MIDI-Setup.



The FCA202 costs about three times the price of an UCA222. Still a great bargain and I hope that my search for a rather good DAC for comfortable long play listening is over.

I'll comment more about the sound quality in the next few days/weeks. I have acquired a lot of new toys in the last few days (for example another Mosfet V.2 and a Neco Portable, both with linear pot). Today is the last day of my holidays and I'll simply need a couple of days/weeks for a serious comparsion of all gear. Most of the gear isn't burned-in yet.

Here are a couple of pics:





I didn't open the case and probably I won't open it soon. But I have found some information on the internet that FCA202 uses rather cheap components. I've found a head-fi thread and someone did mod the FCA202 already with better caps – unfortunately he has managed to damage it beyond repair while modding.

Presumably the modding potential is similiar to the UCA222, probably a lot of caps that can be replaced. I'll will post pictures if I do open the FCA202, but I don't think I'll do this in the next few days.

More feedback is highly appreciated if someone else gives the FCA202 a chance. I can't comment about Windows/Linux performance of this device.


BTW: While I was finishing this post, I've got a phone call from my boss. BAD NEWS: We have lost one of our biggest customers. More than 20 people will be fired in the next few months. As far as we know at the moment, this will have no consequences for me (I'll keep my job), but maybe we all can't work 100% in the next few months. We'll see. Shit happens.

[elysion]

After some more listening: I'm already thinking that my search is over.

The FCA202 sounds as sweet as the UCA222 but it has the resolution that was lacking with the UCA222.

Like the UCA222 it's a bargain. Probably one of the cheapest FireWire audio interfaces that are around.

Software support is also perfect with OSX. Using built-in OSX drivers means that support is given even if Behringer would close its doors tomorrow. Installation/use could not be simpler.

I will post more of my impressions as soon as everything is burned-in and I had the time to test more combinations. I think it's save to say that the FCA202 offers very good value for the price, at least for Mac users. Windows users are welcome to report their experiences. If I do test more operating systems then I will test Linux. I have a computer with Linux but it's not my top-priority to test it (too much other things to test).

The FCA202 is not perfect. One small thing that annoys me is the blue LED which is smaller than the LED of the Mosfet. But this small LED is a lot brighter. Somewhat to bright for me, but I can live with it. Otherwise the two-tone aluminum/metal case looks well and the design with a red and a blue LED is OK. Like with all Behringer products, the Behringer logo is very striking.

[elysion]

I have found another slight drawback of the FCA202: FireWire devices can use bus-power also while the host computer is powered off. This should be true for most (but not all) FireWire interfaces. This means you can shut down your computer and the FCA202 is still fully powered. It's only a cosmetical issue for me, but because the blue LED is also so bright this could be annoying for someone else.

I will also have a look at the behaviour of the Apogee Duet from one of my friends. I see him quite often so I think I can report back soon.

Of course, you can simple pull the FireWire cable out as workaround. All USB interfaces that I have seen have no power after shutdown unless they are connected to an USB hub with own PSU. The also recognize that not USB host adapter is there anymore – I can't say at the moment how it works exactly. But I got curious to find it out.

The UCA222 or the Native Audio 4 DJ shut down together with the computer.

Sound is still very lovely with the FCA202.

[elysion]

There's also a project for Free (Linux) FireWire Audio Drivers:

www.ffado.org/

Device support is still mediocre but continuously increasing. The FCA202 isn't supported with ffado at the moment.

[Sol]

Thanks for the posts ... I'm currenlty in the market for a Firewire sound card for my MAC and the Apogee Duet (Solo) or M-Audio seem to fit the bill:

• Can connnect guitar and Mic at same time
  
• Is USB or Firewire
  
• Low Latency
  
• Integrates with Mac software directly
  

So I've read your posts with interest - looking fwd to the Apogee review. Can you tell me whetehr you can connect a Guitar/Mic through the Behringer?

[elysion]

I'm don't know much about guitars and can't answer your question seriously. I have seen a couple of connection schematics for the Behringer UCA222 (there's a separate thread about it) and the FCA202 and there are possibilites to connect a guitar (I guess you can't connect the guitar directly). The main problem with the cheap Behringer's is that they have only one input. Most likely you will need more than one input for your purpose. Please have a look at the information on the Behringer website (I have posted links to the product page in both threads).

One of my friend has the Apogee Duet which is a FireWire audio interface. The Apogee One is an USB interface with built-in mic. I can't say much about "One", but the Duet is a highly hyped FireWire audio interface with almost perfect integration in OSX and LogicAudio. It's probably one of the best FireWire interfaces for the Mac. I can't say much about the possible connections, but I'm almost sure it has everything you need. My friend uses it together with a Behringer mixing console and a couple of synthesizers (mostly with a yellow Waldorf Q).

www.apogeedigital.com/
video.apogeedigital.com/2010/02/guitar-legend-tommy-emmanuel-records-with-one/

I won't write a review about the Apogee's since I don't own one of those. But I'd like to complement this review with a comparsion of the sound characteristics of the Behringer's with the Apogee Duet.

My friend uses Yamaha studio monitors for output and with these the sound quality is very good. Some fine-tuning was necessary to get most out of his combo (he uses one of my true-online UPS systems for cleaner current entry). The Apogee Duet uses almost the same chipset as the Native Instruments Audio 4 DJ interface that I have bought recently. SQ with the NI A4DJ was very good, but it's +10dBu output gain has almost damaged my ears... The Apogee Duet is "normal" in this regard but does cost almost twice as the NI A4DJ. One reason for the NI A4DJ was the chipset which is very similar to the Apogee Duet. In the end the NI A4DJ was a total bummer for me (too much output gain and almost unusable with headphone amps). While the NI A4DJ is intended for DJ that connect it to PA amps the Apogee Duet is much more universal.

The Duet has very good resolution but can be somewhat cold and analytic. The NI A4DJ was too cold for me, but I didn't notice anything disturbing with the Apogee Duet of my friend. Probably it depends a lot on the combo that is used with it. The Behringer's are IMO a lot warmer and softer than the Duet/NI A4DJ which have both a CirrusLogic chipset.

Because the Apogee Duet isn't cheap, I would suggest you to have a closer look at a music store. I hope they will let you do some testing.

IMO the Duet matches your request list quite good:
– Mic/Guitar together should be possible (but please check back since I don't know much about it)
– It's FireWire. FireWire is a lot better than USB. Lower latencies and and the FW bus concept is much better suited for AV applications. FW interfaces usually cost more than those with USB and it's often used for professional applications.
– Mac+FireWire means: Ultra-low latency. I don't know a combo that offers better latencies. The Apogee drivers are very good (my friend had absolutely no problem with it).
– Mac integration is absolutely perfect. It's Mac only and targeted at LogicAudio users.
– The only bad thing: It's Mac only. No other use for the Duet than with OSX.

I hope that I can convince my friend to write a review about the Apogee Duet (and other things), but usually he has not much time since he has his own business (look here: www.designimfeld.ch/).

The main reason why I used audio interfaces as DACs is because they are easily available and are in a good price range. My main goal is to connect headphone amps to them, but it's good to know that the interfaces can be more than a simple DAC. I like the OSX generic FW/USB drivers. Quality is good and it's a very reliable solution (no need to wait for new drivers if a new OSX version is out). My listening is almost only computer based.

Maybe you should also look at the cheap mixing consoles from Alesis. They have an integrated USB interface and are a really good bang-for-the-buck. Derek Rumble wrote about them in the UCA222 thread.

I'm not a fan of the M-Audio products. While the offer good sound for a good price, I hate them for the mediocre software support. I only own two M-Audio Revolution 7.1 and a Audiophile 2496 and none of their FW/USB-interfaces. You will find a lot of reports about problems with M-Audio software if you are searching the internet.

[Sol]

Thanks for that ... all great information. I did a bit of reading around the M-Audio produucts, and there's some latency issues, and software probs reported here and there. Guess that's those rule dout then (and given the number of private sales on ebay, it does suggest owners are looking to change)

The Duet does seem to get "flavour of the month" on headfi ... and for my purposes it does:

• Seem to have a good DAC and so could be paired with an external amp and tablet speakers in the computer room at a later stage
  
• Can serve as a headamp very well for monitoring
  
• Does do phantomn power for mic input
  
• Offers 24/96 which is pretty much all that is required (though of course 128 upsampling would have been nice
  
• integrates with logic very well and offers up to 4 midi ocntrollers, so that single nob can be configured to do loads of stuff within Logic over an above simple volume adjust e.g. pan etc
  

I'm tempted ... think I'll start watching ebay private sales to see if I can pick one up for a reaosnable sum ... £350 is way to much to pay for now - especialy as I'm wanting to get an amp, and Proac Tablettes into that room at some point!

[elysion]

Two weeks later and I still like the FCA202 very much. I'll keep it for sure.

I've received the AUNE Nano USB DAC this weekend from Mike. I like the FCA202 much more than the Nano DAC and IMO even UCA222 is overall slightly better than the Nano DAC.

I guess the FCA202 is still the cheapest FireWire audio interface that is available. (If someone knows about a cheaper FireWire audio interface – please show it to me.)

I'm thinking about a slight modification of the FCA202. I'm searching for something partially transparent that could be glued onto both LEDs. I hope to blur both LEDs, making the very bright blue LED less annoying. I have no soldering experience, but of course replacing the LED would be also a possibility.

[Deleted]

I have no soldering experience, but of course replacing the LED would be also a possibility.

You could also increase greatly the value of the Blue LEDs series resistor.
Perhaps as much as 10 times the value ? e.g. 10Kohms.

[elysion]

Jun 21, 2010 3:39:37 GMT @sandyk said:

I have no soldering experience, but of course replacing the LED would be also a possibility.

You could also increase greatly the value of the Blue LEDs series resistor.
Perhaps as much as 10 times the value ? e.g. 10Kohms.

Thanks for the hint... I guess I should really look to get some soldering skills and more electronic knowledge.

[elysion]

More pics:

[elysion]

I took one of my FCA202's apart (meanwhile I'm the owner of two FCA202's).

Probably, it would have been better to make the following photos earlier.

The case of the FCA202 was almost as easy to open as that of the UCA222. You just have to release six screws. That's it. And like with the UCA222 there's no warranty seal that tells you that you'll "void your warranty" if you go on with your work.

















I'm quite (positive) suprised about the components inside. AD8602D and AD8694 opamps, TI TSB41AB2 FireWire chip, Oxford Semiconductor FW-970 sound processor and CirrusLogic 5340 A/D converter.

www.cirrus.com/en/products/cs5340.html

There's also a a head-fi thread about some components of the FCA202:

www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/147380/new-firewire-audio-solution-from-behringer-for-80-eur/15

Remember that the FCA202 is the cheapest FireWire audio interface on the market.

Many components of the FCA202 are SMD. I guess that it is at least possible to replace caps and/or the jack sockets.

Since it has also 12V AC input, it should be possible to run it from a decent PSU while avoiding FireWire bus power. I think a modified FireWire cable should allow that. 4-pin FireWire cables are data-only and have no wire for bus power. The usual 6- or 9-pin FireWire cables have additional wires for bus power.

[elysion]

BTW: My second FCA202 shows another number (inside brackets) in OSX system preferences.



My first FCA202 shows the number "4004" while the second one shows "2261".

I hear no difference in SQ between both units, but I didn't open the second one so far. The manufacturing data of both is rather close together.

[elysion]

The wikipedia entry about FireWire has a lot of information and also many continuative links:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_1394_interface

[elysion]

Another head-fi thread with a short review of the FCA202:

www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/146703/short-review-behringer-fca202

Here some fist impressions:
Looks good, tiny and sleek, will match a Mac imho very good.
No real interface installed on PC, just a little tool for adjusting latencies and sampling rate.
Doesn't work with Winamp ASIO util but works with Wavelab and Reason ASIO.
Sounds is not bad out of the box, imho better than than the Audigy2ZS that I gave a try yesterday. No hum or noise at all, good Bass and room reproduction.

After opening:
Cap's are Behringer standards. Oxfordsemi FW970 controller, CS5340 ADC, not able to determine the DAC, must be the 8pin MSOP thing (marked 345c), some AD8602/4 opamps (single supply, rail2rail)

Will replace caps with OSCON and FC's and replace the wall adapter for a more powerful unit, rectification is done in the FCA202.

DAC must be a CS4345 10pin TSSOP. Voltages inside: 12Vin=>via Buckconverter down to ~6.3V =>5V,3.3V,1.85V.

[elysion]

One of the comments to this YouTube video is interesting:

BEWARE: The Behringer FCA202 is NOT COMPATIBLE WITH 64-bit. There is no way whatsoever to get it to work in Windows 64-bit and there are no indications whatsoever that Behringer is going to do anything about it.

I made the costly mistake of assuming that it'd be absurd for a company to just not make 64-bit drivers available for a "pro audio" product. Only thing I can do now is help others not make the same mistake.

The comment was posted about one year ago. If the situation is still the same, then the FCA202 is working only with 32-bit Windows and with OSX. Linux support isn't available until now.