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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 12, 2010 21:06:23 GMT
I CERTAINLY won't be the first to buy an M1. I don't like the road MF are going down and there are some real quality amps out there that cost a fraction of the price.
The X-CANS and X-CAN V2 were true icons.... the recent "versions" are just overpriced, underperforming pieces of junk IMO.
No sooner do you "buy into" MF's "latest and greatest" they then, effectively, make out it's obsolete and urge you to buy their newer version.
Nope, it stopped at the V3 for me.
Mike.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Oct 18, 2010 19:56:46 GMT
Is there already a real "review" about those M1 HPA's and DAC's? I did a quick search and found nothing that would deserve the term "review". I won't buy those new MF products which are IMO a rip-off, but I'm still curious what's inside the box and how it sounds. We should ask Anthony Michaelson for some review samples... ;D  I have some doubts that the M1 series is really available now. Is there anyone that have seen M1's for sale? |
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jokelo
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Post by jokelo on Nov 19, 2010 20:36:01 GMT
"Real" review of this would be very welcome. Did hold one in my hands today, it was a lot bigger than I thought. Really had good feel about it and it's building quality, as usual MF stuff is on the outside. No idea about the innards though.  Did not have a chance to hear it, no time for that today. And it really should be brought home to my system to get the picture. Maybe not even time for that. Only thing that bothered me on the looks, that ridiculous tiny switch on the front panel for line/usb... It couldn't be smaller not a chance. But still, quite solid looking amp. |
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chris1967
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Post by chris1967 on Dec 13, 2010 21:35:24 GMT
I had shown interest a while back (just when i bought my M1 Dac) and also for a service checkup on my pre/ power amps, here in Greece...
They contacted me today that they have received their first batch of M1 HPA's...
I will definitely have a listen... and i will keep you posted...
Musical fidelity products have been my favorites over the years... but before the turn of the millennium...(and believe me i have seriously listened to all of them and compared them to the then holy grails)...
The example of the A370 is certainly not a valid one,... although i tend to agree on the rest, but a little less exaggeration wouldn't hurt imo...
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jokelo
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Post by jokelo on Dec 26, 2010 15:06:38 GMT
There is a picture of M1 HPA insides on Head-fi. Maybe someone here can comment on those? I'm not sure can I link it here..?
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 26, 2010 20:39:48 GMT
There is a picture of M1 HPA insides on Head-fi. Maybe someone here can comment on those? I'm not sure can I link it here..? Yes, of course you can  Link away! |
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jokelo
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Post by jokelo on Dec 27, 2010 7:16:29 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2010 10:37:06 GMT
I get Mike's point..  No tubes, no 'special' parts (aside from the 'standard' volpot).  Ceramic disc (cheap chinese caps) not even ceramic multilayer.  Zetex transistors (these are actually good transistors in general with high gains and little spread/tolerances) the cheapest USB/DAc solution that uses a single X'tal that is upped in freq by a PLL. pretty standard headphone amp design and above all... (Yak in the audio world) an SMPS ! Dual layer PCB with ground plane is a pré !  Chinese manufacturers would be able to sell the same device well below $ 100.- I bet.  It all screams ... CHEAP ! but that doesn't make it less sounding though. This I wil have to leave to the experts..  One thing is for sure... SandyK WON'T be buying this USB powered DAC ! and neither will I. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2010 10:56:26 GMT
I get Mike's point.. No tubes, no 'special' parts (aside from the 'standard' volpot). Ceramic disc (cheap chinese caps) not even ceramic multilayer. Zetex transistors (these are actually good transistors in general with high gains and little spread/tolerances) the cheapest USB/DAc solution that uses a single X'tal that is upped in freq by a PLL. pretty standard headphone amp design and above all... (Yak in the audio world) an SMPS ! Dual layer PCB with ground plane is a pré ! Chinese manufacturers would be able to sell the same device well below $ 100.- I bet. It all screams ... CHEAP ! but that doesn't make it less sounding though. This I wil have to leave to the experts.. One thing is for sure... SandyK WON'T be buying this USB powered DAC ! and neither will I. Everything about it screams cheap an nasty.  Zetex transistors seem to typically have rather high capacitances. Perhaps a trade off for their high gain and low saturation ? |
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Post by gommer on Dec 27, 2010 12:24:58 GMT
I get Mike's point.. No tubes, no 'special' parts (aside from the 'standard' volpot). Ceramic disc (cheap chinese caps) not even ceramic multilayer. Zetex transistors (these are actually good transistors in general with high gains and little spread/tolerances) the cheapest USB/DAc solution that uses a single X'tal that is upped in freq by a PLL. pretty standard headphone amp design and above all... (Yak in the audio world) an SMPS ! Dual layer PCB with ground plane is a pré ! Chinese manufacturers would be able to sell the same device well below $ 100.- I bet. It all screams ... CHEAP ! but that doesn't make it less sounding though. This I wil have to leave to the experts.. One thing is for sure... SandyK WON'T be buying this USB powered DAC ! and neither will I. Actually, the bridge in this DAC is not as bad as it seems. True, there's a PLL. But apparently, clean power and a low jitter clock do make a (big) difference with this IC. The onboard DAC is not high end but using the I2S output with a good external DAC makes this IC first class, as bad as it may look with the x8 PLL. That doesn't speak for this DAC/HA of course, because in here, there's no external DAC, nor low jitter clock to be seen. |
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leo
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Post by leo on Dec 27, 2010 18:01:51 GMT
Looking at Mikes pics of the modded X-cans I always thought they looked nicely made and well thought out, hate to say this latest offering looks a pile crap, sorry It would be a shame if they went down this road with all the latest models  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2010 18:16:19 GMT
Nor me. The V8 was the first I bought and while it was an intro to the MF sound it never sounded like my V2 or V1. Perhaps it's more neutral; that's what I first noticed about it I suppose and the fact that it cut through the Senns. However, it never developed the impact of the other two of which I'm still very fond of.
In fact, my V8 is the least used of all my amps now and won't go near the M1 at that price.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Dec 27, 2010 21:37:30 GMT
I won't sell my remaining MF amps beside 1-2 of my V-Can's (I've already sold my V1 to Mike), but I won't buy any new MF amps. There are too much better alternatives around that are also a lot cheaper. I'm still thinking the same. The X-Cans (V1/V2/V3) are very good amps (if they are modded). Anthony Michaelson's main motivation for selling amps was forseeable:  £££ MONEY $$$ CASH €€€ BUCKS £££ QUIDS $$$ DOSH €€€ Cash first, music afterwards... Why do they need a such big case for that M1 amp? Anthony has missed the chance to save a few more quids. Probably the big case should emphasise that there's something "important" in that case. A bigger amp must be better, doesn't it? I remeber those cheap PCs that were sold years ago with "BIG TOWER" cases. Almost nothing was in those PCs, usually a cheap motherboard and low-grade components (and only the absolutely necessary components). Thousands of those "BIG TOWERS" have been sold, mostly because their buyers have associated that a "BIG TOWER" must be something better. It's something other with the X-Can V3 and V8: Their bigger case size (compared to V1/V2) is an advantage that results usually in lower operating tempartures respectively better cooling (compared to V1/V2). BTW: Anthony still loves those Jamicon caps. Is he a shareholder of Jamicon? |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Dec 27, 2010 21:46:52 GMT
Same here Ian, I was pretty underwhelmed (to say the least) when I heard the V8.... it was so neutral it was insipid, totally bland and non musical.... obviously the "introduction" to the M1 with SMPS.... a marketing ploy to get us to believe that "neutral" (uninteresting) is the way to go.... Nope, I like an amp with character. The V2 / V3 had character in spadeloads.... these latest offerings are just big boxes filled with rubbish.... all show and no glow |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2010 23:08:24 GMT
Yes, the V8 may go actually. I'm a bit pissed at what I paid for it though!!
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leo
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Post by leo on Dec 28, 2010 0:13:14 GMT
Is the V8 a lot different design to the V2 and V3?
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Post by bluescreen on Dec 28, 2010 4:57:32 GMT
I personally dont like amps that add character or colour the sound.......I leave that to the headphones |
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chris1967
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Post by chris1967 on Jan 22, 2011 11:12:44 GMT
Well i did it and bought one...
I waited a while to let it settle down, and to have a good extensive listening to it, with all the music that i like...and from different sources (FLAC various, cd rip and studio masters 24/96, upsampled, straight or downsampled, CD and LP).
I used the usb DAC only from curiosity, and it was just ok, nothing spacial... all listenning was done connected to the M1 DAC with Van den Hul the first cable and the M1 DAC was connected with spdif cable to the digital sources and with Van den Hul the first to the analog sources through my tape loop (Musical Fidelity MX preamp)
My music of preference is mainly Classical and Jazz.
I have, no way near, experiences, listening with headphones compared to listening through speakers, so this is my personal opinion that has been made up in a very short time span.
I definitely like listening to the M1 for extended periods of time, and i find it that it does not fatigue me at all. I use Sennheiser HD-650 and i find the combination absolute velvet to my ears.
The bass is very controlled, and this is what i immediately noticed when auditioning them for the first time, on the other hand i noticed the lack of treble and attack, this was an initial finding, and although listening through my speakers i do have more treble and an "air" around everything... i am not sure if this or the other way is the correct way...
With extended listening M1DAC/M1HPA (and also comparing through the Aune with two opa2107 and linear power supply, my pc audio card Creative x-fi Fatality, and Creative Extigy ), i find the sound far superior and comforting to my ears, absolutely smooth yet not lacking in detail whatsoever.
You could argue, what exactly are you comparing and at what price... and you would be right, but these are my reference points, and i don't have others.
To me (and that is how i have chosen the cheaper in ear headphones and i have quite a few Koss, Sennheiser, Denon and Sony), it is not only how impressive the sound is initially, but how long you can listen with normal levels and not get tired. At the same time they should be revealing and showing the maximum information out of the recording.
This, i believe, is what the M1 is doing in combination with the 650's, and this is my preference.
I cannot find any equation to justify the price, and it might be over the top i know (i paid 500euro from the Musical Fidelity Dealer here in Greece and i found it to be a fair price), others might think this to be absurd, i cannot comment on that.
All i can say is that anyone looking for a very smooth neutral headphone amplifier, (and that anyone does not have the extensive technical and theoretical background that a few people have here, in order to make or improve a cheaper kit or ready made amplifier to bring it to their level of preference...) the M1 HPA is a delight.
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Post by oohms on Jan 24, 2011 6:36:25 GMT
Without having seen the schematics, I don't think it looks too bad, my only real question is why they chose to use (what looks like) TO-218 output transistors
Also i don't understand the fuss about SMPS.. I find the noise easier to filter, because of its higher frequency
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2011 7:30:58 GMT
That is simply not correct. Some DVD players using SMPS have as high as 130KHZ ripple to filter out. A typical voltage regulator is almost completely ineffective at rejecting such a high frequency, and much of it passes straight through the regulator.
If that isn't enough,most DVD players,STBs etc. have as high as 120VAC present between the earth side of the outputs and real earth.This is due to a capacitor fitted between the primary and secondary sides of the SMPS.Although this current is relatively low, it can give a bite if you touch between 0 volts/ earth side of the output and an earthed object.Rubbing your finger across the case of these will often result in a vibration being felt too. In addition if you connect several such devices to a typical preamp/power amplifier , the effect is additive, and you may get a rather nasty little bite when playing around inserting and removing interconnect cables, even when the devices are turned off.
Alex
v
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Post by oohms on Jan 24, 2011 8:46:56 GMT
I meant using an LC or RC filter after the switchmode psu.. when i did that on my last HA design (which amplifies psu noise 3-fold), it is completely silent.
Would an ground loop breaker (10R in parallel with 1uF cap) fix the voltage WRT ground issue?
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Post by oohms on Jan 24, 2011 8:53:14 GMT
Actually, it looks like the use the analogue outputs of the PCM2706.. so not a high quality DAC after all
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2011 9:14:16 GMT
I meant using an LC or RC filter after the switchmode psu.. when i did that on my last HA design (which amplifies psu noise 3-fold), it is completely silent. Would an ground loop breaker (10R in parallel with 1uF cap) fix the voltage WRT ground issue? An LC filter between the SMPS and a voltage regulator can help, but if it's a regulated output SMPS , then doing that will inrease the output impedance of the supply. You aren't able to directly hear the residual from an SMPS because of it's very high frequency. Your proposed fix will not cure the problem. I will email you a copy of an article . Alex |
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xerxes
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Post by xerxes on Jan 24, 2011 11:51:44 GMT
I discovered that. I have a DVD player, and it wasn't a really cheap one, and I kept getting little shocks from it. At first I thought it was the little DIY DAC/Headphone amp that I had plugged into it that was at fault, but no. The bit of equipment I had built used a linear power supply in a metal case which was properly connected to the mains earth. So, if I touched that and the DVD player, I got a shock as I earthed the live case of the DVD player, through me to the case of my PSU connected to mains earth. There's a short review of some of the new Musical Fidelity products over at Computer Audiophile: www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Musical-Fidelity-M1DAC-M1HPA-and-V-Link-Async-USB-Converter-Review. I haven't heard any of the new MF stuff and it may sound just fine, but looking at the innards, there does seem to be an awful lot of fresh air in the boxes when compared to some of the competition. There are some inside pictures of the M1 DAC and V-DAC here: www.ippinkan.com/m1_dac_musicalfidelity.htmAnother benefit of SMPS for manufacturers is that they will often work with an input voltage of anything from 100 to 250v AC at 50 or 60Hz, so one single version will work pretty much anywhere in the world. |
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Post by Defecitve Audio Component on Jan 24, 2011 18:23:45 GMT
I think their biggest mistake was introducing the "fine tuning" service which, basically, sent a message to their customers that the product they had just bought was not as good as it could be and for another few hundred quid they would bring it up to scratch..... Just imagine how you'd feel if you forked out mega bucks on their A370 power amp to be told it could be improved for £899 or forked out £399 on the V8 headphone and then informed it will cost you an additional £189 to get it "fine tuned".... absolutely RIDICULOUS!! Didn't you get all that started with your own upgrade service? (or were they already doing it?) |
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