|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 8, 2011 20:45:37 GMT
Hopefully, Madam V8 knocked on the door today Mike. I'm really looking forward to hearing what you do; especially on the end of the SE!! Hi Ian, She arrived this afternoon  I am going to take it slowly with your V8 as I want to get it sounding absolutely mind blowing. The two ohm "output impedance" consists of two horrible wirewound resistors (1.2 ohm) slap bang in the signal path so I am going to change these for either Alan Bradley or Shinkoh types. This will definitely change the sonic signature for the better, I just have to decide which ones sound the best... I am looking for organic and dynamic. The 4 x resistors in the power section equate to 10 ohms so I am going to replace all four of them with ONE high quality, non inductive, 20 Watt / 10 ohm Mundorf M-Resist, they are £10 each so want to be good at that money!  I have made a start this evening..... fitted the Panasonic NHG 3300uF caps and some Panasonic FC 1500uF.... I have bypassed the 3300uF NHG with top quality 100nF / 630V polyprops and have bypassed the 1500uF with WIMA 100nF metalised polyester..... The EVOX / Rifa 470nF polyprops have been bypassed with 33pF polystyrene film caps. Tomorrow I will fit UF4001 ultrafast diodes and probably bypass them with polystyrene film caps.... I want the amp section of this V8 to be pretty much "flagship".... I am not going to touch the DAC section at all as I know you don't use it much, not a lot can be done anyway apart from swapping out caps. Nope, I'm going to concentrate on making this V8 your "reference" amp.... plenty of tuning by ear I have fitted ceramic valve sockets and will be populating them with a pair of 6N23P-EB which I will match on my Tube Imp...... Off to order those resistors as I believe they will play a key part in improving the character of the amp.... I will "voice" it to my ears and hope you like it...... So far:     |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2011 20:59:03 GMT
Good grief, you've started already? I think you must hear in a similar way to myself Mike. Organic and dynamic is basically the kind of sound I would definitely strive for. The organic bit is hard to really define, but there aren't that many amps that do that. That kind of 'earthy' sound that sounds like humans making music and not a squeaky clean purile sound, I suppose. The ultra-expensive system I was a gnat's whisker away from buying was just that. The top end wasn't aggressive or thin in any way and yet you clearly heard cymbals and the pitch of the metal ringing which often comes out as a nasty 'splash' sound on nasty systems. The first head amp that did that for me was the V2 that you max'ed out for me. I still find that amp stunning and you put it at no 5 in your list!!!! I'm glad I didn't get rid of the V8 now. I was thinking about it.  Ian |
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 8, 2011 21:35:45 GMT
I am wondering about this "2 ohm" impedance thing Ian and will experiment with different values.... I am not convinced that "2 ohms" is necessarily a good thing.... very trendy at the moment to come out with these "zero output impedance" amps but, again, that means nothing.... I have a few values and types to try and will choose what is best with a wide selection of 'phones. Yes, I have started already! I have quite a few bits and bobs arriving tomorrow that will require my attention so will be working on your amp in the evenings...... Sold two of the new Special Edition Pinkies today so I am pretty chuffed! (both to V3 owners) I will be interested on your take of it compared to the stock wallwart, My ears tell me that it is something special but, hey, I'm biased I don't think you will regret holding onto the V8 Ian, when I modded mine I was 100% convinced it was the "number one" amp in my armoury..... I sold it as I don't like to be happy, I like to constantly "improve" stuff and when I have I tend to sell it on in order that I may concentrate on another challenge..... I always have three or four V2's kicking about but mostly because I love the shape of them, no real reason other than that for having four of them  You know yourself, when you have more than "one" amp there is a limit to how much you can listen to them all.... I have more headphone amps than I have underpants and most of them gathering dust..... that "rainy day" will NEVER come when I require 59 headphone amps to all be operating at the same time Same with my Hacker radios, I could start a f**kin' museum! I have about 30 of them but only have one on at any given time.... same with headphones, as it happens....... I haven't even listened to my "anniversary edition" pair of KOSS portapro yet and they have been here for a YEAR!! I am GLAD I am not married or I would be henpecked 25/8/366..... "do you really NEED another pair of headphones? I think you are mad"  "yeh, I need them to drown out your annoying voice you bitch"  I think quite a lot of us on this forum are suffering from either OCD or sheer "boredom".... nobody I know "in real life" even knows what a headphone amp IS and most of them would argue they don't "need" one  When I die I can see it now....... a bunch of vultures I don't even know rooting through my drawers and chucking all "that electronic crap" into a massive skip.... a landfill site the size of a small village packed to the hilt with valves, headphone amps, capacitors and shit..... I hope they dump me in there along with it OK.... on that happy note.... off to listen to some Van Der Graff Generator..... I could do with "cheering up" it is Friday night after all |
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 9, 2011 20:38:21 GMT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2011 22:15:56 GMT
Settled in to village that's noisier than being at home!! Very poor internet.
It looks good Mike. Caps big time.
Pity MF can't do it right the first time round. Makes you feel a bit miffed having to get it redone by them for a nice fee.
Can't wait to get home. (already!!!)
Ian
|
|
elysion
Been here a while! 
Team Anti M$ AND Facebook.
contra torrentem
Posts: 2,375
|
Post by elysion on Apr 9, 2011 23:15:45 GMT
Great job, Mike! vintage Russian paper in oil capacitors That sounds interesting. What's the benefit of those vintage caps? Are they superiour to more modern caps? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2011 8:25:11 GMT
Also, I presume that you had to have a 'scraping' session to get all the glue off? Interesting that the resistor company talks about low noise and 'subjectively' higher dynamic range. I reckon the oil will give it a 'dirty' dynamic sound. The Russian tubes have definitely put more 'boot' into the V1. I have Jan Phillips in the V2 so go two flavours to compare with. I was looking at the specs of the Little Pinkie SE and it does actually put a lot of power out so what with component changes on the board and that little beast powering it, there's going to be a lot more dynamic range available. It'll be weird hearing a V8 giving serious welly since I'm so used to its squeaky clean (what I perceive as) 'watery' sound!! It looks as though the V8 is the last of the tube line which is a pity imo, but given the sound of the V8 as sold, not surprising. Also, the fact that they offered the update service kind of says to customers - 'here's the amp but we could make it better for you if you want'. Maybe not the best policy. They could easily have put out a V8 and a V8se at different price levels (and also offered the update) Not a lot out on the M1 so I wonder if many are actually selling? Ian |
|
|
|
Post by clausdk on Apr 10, 2011 10:55:13 GMT
I have loved the V8 from the get go.. It has become better with Pinkie and first the russian valves and now the 6922, but in better quality than the 6922 than it was born with.. The downside to the V8 is the DAC it is way to bad to be attached to such a great amp. It could use a bit deeper bass, but the overall tonality is so smoth and easygoing, that I can live with the not so deep bass as SS amps.. I would love an upgrade set for mine.. So if one could be put toogether, I would buy it in an instant |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2011 18:13:21 GMT
I also love the clarity of the V8 Claus but in comparison to the V1 and V2, it just lacks character and low bass response. I've never heard stock V1 and V2 but I suspect it could be a similar story perhaps because Mike really went to town on my V2 and it's a stunning listen to me. No noise whatsoever and big, gutsy sound. The V1 may go up a little more into treble - not exactly sure. If Krisno was around, I would say nothing!!! I know that Mike prefers the V1 but I have trouble between the two of them. Both really good. However, they both make the V8 sound kind of smaller and less powerful. I suspect it's going to be a different story when it arrives back and an SE supply with it as well. Mike's kind of genius with the fine tuning of these things and that 'farmyard' type sound and the extra dynamics that are possible will probably make it a great amp. Can't wait!! Ian |
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 11, 2011 20:31:56 GMT
Ian, There is going to be a slight delay with the resistor, that HiFiCollective mob have delayed shipping my order as they are minus "one" capacitor I told them to sod the capacitor and get the order to me ASAP! I built your Special Edition Pinkie today and she is a stunner  Hell, I'm frightened to touch the enclosure when I'm making them.... it's so shiny and new looking! One slip of a screwdriver and WHAMMO!, one enclosure fit for the dustbin..... I'm sure I'll get more confident as I build them but, at the moment, I'm building on a block of foam I hope to have your V8 up and running midweek and will fine tune (by ear) for three or four days and hope to ship back to you early next week. Any particular headphones you want me to try with it? I don't have the K-701 anymore but do have the K-501 which are similar. I notice you mention the early demise of your HD-250..... I have a mint pair here (a pair of the BASS meisters ) and will ship them along with the amp, I really don't need two pairs, I know you will say no so just look at is as an extended "loan" I will keep you posted once the listening tests (on the V8) begin. Mike. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2011 22:28:08 GMT
No rush at all Mike. I'm just really grateful for all the work you're putting into it. Yes, the 250's have been on their last legs for a long time. They were one of the first that Senn put out and I got a new pair to replace them but sent them up to you at one point thinking mine would be ok. Eventually both ears went on mine, pads got knackered so I gave up with them. Now they're no longer around which is a pity. The connections to the earpieces went iffy so I had that fixed at one point but then one of the drivers started to go 'odd' sounding at first, ending with a few final 'sittings' which eventually destroyed them. I was tempted by the Russian place but was worried about getting a duff pair since I know they can be a bit variable. (I'd noticed this before with them) but once you have a good pair, they're fine. Please Mike, don't do yourself out of a pair. I know you love them to bits. I would say the headphones I use the most are polar opposites - the HD650 and K701!! The biggest problem is the K701 though so I guess if you have a 501, it's close. (Not forgetting the old DT770!!) I change headphones like underpants. Depends on what I'm listening to - even down to AT ad700 and portapro!!! Depends on mood/music. I REALLY like the look of the SE. It's substantial and a perfect match with the V8. The added bonus of metal shielding and the power that it offers is just mouth watering. I guess the two that you've sent out have arrived and the guys fed back? Once you latch on to and hear the dynamic difference and the absolute silence of these supplies, nothing else gets close to be honest. When you see what are shipped out with most amps and other gear that is supposedly superior, you just feel that a big corner has been cut when you see the power supplies that they come with. After hearing the V2 with the Little Pinkie, I realised just how important the supply is and it is something that crops up all of the time in so many posts. What I also love about them is its physical quietness. A power supply with that much welly, running like a ghost is a very rare animal. I remember years back, running a Sony reel to reel tape recorder that hummed like crazy and every time I used it, I had to get a spool on, press play and close it in a cupboard so I couldn't hear it. However, it was amazing how a power supply hum can carry through wood/air/glass/floor - any bloody thing you place them on. Not the case with the Little Pinky. The Pinkies you've sent me have been dead as doornails. With the reel to reel though, I had hum from the supply, hiss from the tape, and physical noise from the spools running so fast and seeing that I have bat's ears for hums and whistles, I had to resort to closed headphones to listen to it. (No headamp in those days either) Guys like you with all that knowledge and ability with musical ears as well are rare Mike!! You tend to get one or the other - a techno who knows bugger all about what music sounds like or a muso (like me) who knows bugger all (comparatively) about electronics. Very rare to get both in one person!! Also - quite funny really ..... technos never really comment too much on sound and musos go on and on about it, not knowing why!!! You seem to know the bits of wire and track things down and then know what it'll do to the sound which is quite spooky for dimmos like me. Unlike technos though, you don't worry so much about a trace of distortion here or there ... whatever, if the music sounds ok. That's a muso trait!! One thing's for sure; you really put yourself out there at the front with suggestions/reviews and mods. It must be a bit like playing a piece of music, knowing that all the critics are listening waiting for the first mistake .......  No hurry Mike.PLease don't run around after me!! Ian |
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 11, 2011 22:58:01 GMT
No worries..... I am too busy chasing my own tail to start worrying about yours |
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 12, 2011 21:09:41 GMT
Ian, I would like you to have a listen to these relatively "new" HD-250ll linear so will send them along with the amp / PSU..... Listen to Senor Coconut's "White Horse" on them..... whoooooah!! I have been informed the Mundorf resistor is "in the post" so will hopefully commence my listening tests on your V8 tomorrow evening.... she "smells" right but only my ears will tell me if the recipe tastes good Mike. |
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 12, 2011 21:13:41 GMT
Great job, Mike! vintage Russian paper in oil capacitors That sounds interesting. What's the benefit of those vintage caps? Are they superiour to more modern caps? Google them..... you will get loads of "opinions".... in MY opinion they are far superior "sounding" to anything on the market today.... nice and creamy, smooth with an organic "bite".... yada yada yada..... they sound GOOD |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2011 21:35:36 GMT
Ian, I would like you to have a listen to these relatively "new" HD-250ll linear so will send them along with the amp / PSU..... Listen to Senor Coconut's "White Horse" on them..... whoooooah!! I have been informed the Mundorf resistor is "in the post" so will hopefully commence my listening tests on your V8 tomorrow evening.... she "smells" right but only my ears will tell me if the recipe tastes good Mike. The HD 250 is the only headphone I've ever heard that goes down to gut wrenching bass without knocking the rest of the spectrum out Mike. The only thing with them is the way that they vary. The first one I ever got was quite thin and I got rid of it years back. Later, a replacement positively thundered! (almost like a sub woofer type bass - very low) It's a great pity that they've been discontinued. Funny thing was that my old pair went weird before I completely broke them. One of the drivers sounded totally different to the other so they started to feel biased towards one side. The treble in one driver just started to disappear. The same thing happened to a very old pair of Portapros, except both drivers went. Maybe I just wore them out!!! More like - atmosphere/damp got to them. Both had a life in cases travelling all over the place. I remember having the 250's in a small rucksack in Florida one Summer when the sky opened (as it does every day for 30 minutes or so) and The rucksack and me were absolutely soaked through. That doesn't do headphones a great deal of good! Nowadays, the big ones stay at home. Ian |
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 13, 2011 22:14:50 GMT
Hi Ian, The resistor arrived today BUT they have sent the wrong bloody value.... they sent a 4R7 instead of a 10R.... oh well, they promise me the 10R will be here by tomorrow. In the meantime I have sized the 4R7 up on the board.... blimey, they're big these Mundorf things! I sure do hope all this concentration on replacing 4 wirewound resistors with this one BEAST is fruitful   |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2011 22:31:03 GMT
Mike Just as well C23 etc. are 105C or better. Did you need to replace the originals for higher tempco types ? Alex |
|
|
|
Post by vilu86 on Apr 14, 2011 7:58:59 GMT
Hi Mike
I did send you a pm earlier about parts.
Ville.
|
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 14, 2011 8:23:56 GMT
Mike Just as well C23 etc. are 105C or better. Did you need to replace the originals for higher tempco types ? Alex Well...... there were 4 x wirewound 40 ohm in parallel there making a combined value of 10 ohm.... my idea was to replace the four of them with "one" 10 ohm resistor assuming that one is better than 4, especially where that "one" is a non inductive type. I didn't realise the Mundorf would be so large but am pretty sure it will be MORE than up to the job..... I fitted a 12 xatt Mills non inductive here the last time and it was perfectly good so the 20 watt Mundorf should coast through it Same with the output coupling caps Alex..... MF have fitted 2 x 470uF non polar per channel (in parallel) giving 940uF per channel..... we all agree that "less" is more in the signal path so I have replaced the 2 x 470uF (per channel) with 1 x 1000 uF MUSE (NP) per channel. Of course, they are going down the belt and braces route but I would rather one good quality coupling cap over two el cheapos any day. I don't know "why" they employed 4 x 40 ohm resistors to give 10 ohm but I feel better with just the one Mundorf 20 watter punting out the 10 ohm..... non inductive baby! |
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 14, 2011 8:33:14 GMT
Alex, you can see what was there as stock in this pic (the last V8 I worked on).....  I replaced those 4 with 1 x Mills 12W / 10ohm non inductive:  My notes, at that time, regarding the implimentation of the Mills resistor were: " She runs as cool as a cucumber, she is non-inductive and the one Mills resistor does the same job as the four x 40ohm (in parallel) wirewound types..... there is definitely an improvement to the overall sound with the 1 x Mills resistor in place.... a lot more space around things with an inky black silence between passages being the most noticeable.... the bass seems to have become more realistic in that you feel it is "external" to the headphones.... you'd swear there was an external subwoofer attached.... fantastic " |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2011 8:53:52 GMT
It's a big 'un alright. Looks like an electronic caterpillar. The 'inky black silence' you refer to may also be what I was hearing with low impedance cans - the noise level wasn't as low as it could have been. V1 and V2 are way lower in terms of noise whereas the V8 hissed subtly all of the time. You don't detect it with high impedance headphones and it was very low level, but that could account for a comparatively 'inky black' silence. That's exactly what I get with the V2 as well. A V8 with bass.....  Until you hear a V8, you wouldn't realise what a difference that would make!! (Especially on a K701) I compared the modded V-Can with a stock yesterday. A guy at work has one and since I brought mine with me, I took it in and there was no comparison. Mine sounds like a massive amp compared to his. Plus the tracking is better. Ian |
|
|
|
Post by freddypipsqueek on Apr 14, 2011 19:36:14 GMT
I'm very quite watching this.
|
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 15, 2011 20:32:05 GMT
Hi Ian, The 10 ohm "Mundorf" arrived this afternoon so I slotted her in, powered the amp up and ZILCH....... Have spent the past 5 hours tracing the problem and it was all down to one of the redundant "resistor bank" pads which had removed itself along with the resistor No problems at all as they are now "redundant" thanks to Mr. Mundorf but it just so happens that this particular pad was connected to a track on "top" of the board which connected to the valve A piece of wire saved the day but, shit, I get all nervous when things don't work first time Anyways....... Mr. Mundorf in situ:    I've matched up a pair of 6N23P-EB and have had the amp playing away for just under 1 hour. At first I was like "WTF?!".... it was pretty, erm, flat sounding but it is starting to energise as I type. I am powering it with the Pinkie Special Edition and listening to lossless files through ASUS Xonar DX via Cambridge Audio DacMagic (also Pinkie powered). First thing that strikes me is the TOTAL silence of this amp... starts and stops are followed by an INKY black silence, Very clean indeed....... bass notes stop dead in their tracks without any overhang / bloom.... this is a VERY precise amp, adding nothing and taking nothing away from the recording, this doesn't have the slight "garnish" of the V1 / V2 Ian.... it's totally honest in it's reproduction and pretty faithfull to the original recording I think. For that reason alone I think I will close the hood on it..... I originally wanted to add a touch of colouration for you but think, when you get used to what it's doing, you'll love it to bits..... Way too early to even contemplate tweaking it further, I will leave it on test (listening to it) over the weekend..... I'll send you a matched pair of JAN Philips 6922 when I return it and you can have a listen to them at your leisure (some people prefer them to the Russians)...... Most certainly a much more revealing amp with only 1 hour on it so I am happy so far      |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2011 21:56:17 GMT
The photos of the amp and SE look like a wedding couple waiting for the ceremony to start!! Maybe all that capacitance has been filling up with petrol for the first hour. Hopefully, it's giving more welly now? It's a pretty neutral amp in any case which may be why I found it hard to listen to after the V2 Mike? It was definitely more noisy than the V1 and V2 on standby. Sounds good from what you are saying. Perhaps I should send you 5 hours of baccy to replace the batch you probably went through looking for the fault? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2011 22:01:56 GMT
The new Pinkie SE and V8 look superb together. You'd be proud to display those . I'll wager they sound superb too. Excellent finished product Mike. |
|
I am going to take it slowly with your V8 as I want to get it sounding absolutely mind blowing. The two ohm "output impedance" consists of two horrible wirewound resistors (1.2 ohm) slap bang in the signal path so I am going to change these for either Alan Bradley or Shinkoh types. This will definitely change the sonic signature for the better, I just have to decide which ones sound the best... I am looking for organic and dynamic.
I think quite a lot of us on this forum are suffering from either OCD or sheer "boredom".... nobody I know "in real life" even knows what a headphone amp IS and most of them would argue they don't "need" one 
Hell, I'm frightened to touch the enclosure when I'm making them.... it's so shiny and new looking! One slip of a screwdriver and WHAMMO!, one enclosure fit for the dustbin..... I'm sure I'll get more confident as I build them but, at the moment, I'm building on a block of foam 
