How 2 test non workng x-can v3? will it work again

[MaN227]

I posted this in the DIY maybe not the right place for it. so here it is ;D

Looking for help in how to determine where the problem lies in a non working DF X-CAN V3. Also to be able to know if it can then be corrected and get it working again?

Thanks for any and all input on this

oh PLEASE bear in mind I don't know Jack Sh!t so answer in laymans terms please, not a technical , over my head book on current flows.

not knowing where to even start....

how to test the psu and valves/tubes ? then the other bits and bobs.



does this look ok .... or not ?

this is the V3 pcb u see. there are a few area's/spots that look like this.







is this of any concern? it looks sorta like water stains and they are along both sides of board.





and the top side









I'd very much appreciate any guidance ASAP as I can return it within 6 days if its not going to function properly.

If more specific photos need taken I will to it ASAP.

TIA

Peace,
MaN227

[Deleted]

Chaz
Do you have a multimeter or DMM ? You may be asked by Mike to check some basic voltages. Unfortunately, I do not have a schematic for the V3, so you wiill need to be patient until Mike comes back on line. Mike knows these models backwards,forwards, and sideways !
Alex

[MaN227]

disregard what I asked you last Alex u obviously did see it ;D I should have looked first myself lol ;D

whew, yes I do at least have one of those (multimeter, digital read out) I picked it up not long ago to adjust Indeed bias

KK , I shall wait for Sir Pinkus Floydus Maximus
'O wise one

[Deleted]

the 'troubling' things on the solder side of the PCB is soldering/de-soldering residue that was NOT cleaned after these parts were replaced or re-soldered.

When I do some repair work I usually clean with special flux remover cleaner afterwards.
When done properly the connections are better than a normal reflow soldering done in an assembly line (nice 'shiny' solder joints, unless you use that crappy lead-free solder)

WHAT is not woking ?

One channel ? both channels ?

Mike will KNOW everything there can be known about these things.
If he has no time for 'remote repairing' I can be of assistance (would need schematics) AND a 'live' connection (Chat or vid conference).
Mike is (and will always be as I have no experience in MF) the expert on this subject.
he can (very likely) point his finger directly at the right spot because of his vast experience with these devices.
Would take me some time doing various measurements to find it out while he knows where the usual problems are (I feel it is a 'standard' problem)

[MaN227]

most appreciated Frans

I did get a short "look" from Mike, he was busy and took a short time out for me, which again I Most Appreciate and he mentioned to test the psu and valves/tubes. therefore my starting postings, with questions at start about testing those items first.

I have a DMM, for what its worth, but was not about to go mucking about eFFn stuff up, and w/ no desire to zap myself through ignorance.

[PinkFloyd]

First thing to test is the PSU Chaz.

Set your multimeter to the AC range (200V)

Now switch the PSU (wallwart on)

There are 3 pins on the DIN plug

Probe both outer pins and you should get a reading of 27V (or thereabouts)

Now probe between one of the outer pins and the centre pin.... the reading should be 13.5V.... repeat with the other outer pin to centre pin... again, it should be about 13.5V

If you get no reading at all then the PSU is dead.

Don't worry, it's only 12V AC so you will not electrocute yourself testing the voltage!

Is the amp "totally" dead (ie: no LED lighting up / valves not glowing?)

If so, this is a good sign and my guess would be the PSU that's knackered...... please confirm this by testing the PSU first.

Mike.

[mrarroyo]

Yeah! Mike is in the house and should have you up and running in no time.

So guys, what is the best method to clean up solder joints (specially old ones)? I use an old toothbrush and alcohol, is this accetable? Thanks.

[PinkFloyd]

The thing is Chaz, this is NOT a bargain if it doesn't work! If it's the PSU that's knackered you will have to order a new one from MF.... if it's the amp that's faulty you will have to get it repaired.

You would probably end spending a LOT more money repairing it than you would buying one in good working order from the start. Nothing "appears" to have fried on the PCB so there's a good chance it's the wallwart that has given up the ghost.... if it's NOT the wallwart I would send it back for a refund and look for one in working order.

[MaN227]

ok ..... here is photo of the mm with leads and dial where I set it. not even sure this is right but its the only place I could get ANything


maybe I did it wrong , I don't kow. I held the psu end in crook of my knee, held both - and + against prongs as you said to do as still as I could be.

now this is what I got a bunch of numbers all over the place.

if I had to choose where it "halfway" settled it'd be between the farthest prongs 3.8 and the outer and middle 2.7. the ends of my leads are pointed metal, if that has any bearing.

and for your other question no lights , no glow, zip.

please advise how to proceed, much thanks


EDIT: just seen your second post PF . If I need a new psu do I HAVE to get it from them? I can't pick one up (psu) from an online store that has the same in/out put? or a brick and mortar store?

I gave 169 shipped for this if that means anything. other listing I have seen went for 283 and 305 usd shipped respectively,

[Deleted]

If you need a new psu Chaz i have a brand new MF V3 you can have, never used it, sits in my draw.

Mick.

[PinkFloyd]

No no no....... go to "off" and then turn the dial two notches clockwise to "200" ACV

That's where you should be

[PinkFloyd]

By the way, for your records, you had your meter set to the "ohms" range It's VOLTAGE we are measuring here mate

[PinkFloyd]

Mar 7, 2010 21:03:16 GMT @heliharris said:

If you need a new psu Chaz i have a brand new MF V3 you can have, never used it, sits in my draw.

Mick.

I think everyone's on drugs today...... Mick, Chaz lives in the US and the voltage there is 115V.... I doubt the 3 pin wallwart would be any use to him ;D

[PinkFloyd]

EDIT: just seen your second post PF . If I need a new psu do I HAVE to get it from them? I can't pick one up (psu) from an online store that has the same in/out put? or a brick and mortar store?

You will NOT get an "off the shelf" 12-0-12V AC (24V centre tapped) PSU with a 3 pin DIN plug fitted ;D

It's either a case of making your own, going to MF and asking them for one or paying one of these "third party" (unauthorised) outfits to make you one of those Pinkie things

[MaN227]

I see, was not sure and why I moved it to the bottom 200 was I don't even get a blip at the acv 200 nada

Mick I sure appreciate the offer , regardless most kind

for clarification the wall wart say on the label:

musical fidelity
ac adaptor
caass 2 transformer
input : ac 120v 60hz 16w
output: ac 24vct 500ma
model 41a-24-500

[PinkFloyd]

By the way....... my money would be on the PSU....... that board looks fine, nothing obvious (to the eye) wrong with it.... if the transistors had gone into meltdown you would be looking at el scorchio and sniffing charred PCB

[PinkFloyd]

Mar 7, 2010 21:18:51 GMT MaN227 said:

I see, was not sure and why I moved it to the bottom 200 was I don't even get a blip at the acv 200 nada

Mick I sure appreciate the offer , regardless most kind

for clarification the wall wart say on the label:

musical fidelity
ac adaptor
caass 2 transformer
input : ac 120v 60hz 16w
output: ac 24vct 500ma
model 41a-24-500

OK, as I suspected, the wallwart is fcked which is the best possible outcome Now it's just a case of sourcing a 115V MF wallwart.....

I think I've got an old 115V Little Pinkie in the workshop somewhere and you can have it for the cost of shipping (£20).... I'll have a look for it tomorrow

Mike.

[MaN227]

Mar 7, 2010 21:30:11 GMT PinkFloyd said:

Mar 7, 2010 21:18:51 GMT MaN227 said:

I see, was not sure and why I moved it to the bottom 200 was I don't even get a blip at the acv 200 nada

Mick I sure appreciate the offer , regardless most kind

for clarification the wall wart say on the label:

musical fidelity
ac adaptor
caass 2 transformer
input : ac 120v 60hz 16w
output: ac 24vct 500ma
model 41a-24-500

OK, as I suspected, the wallwart is fcked which is the best possible outcome Now it's just a case of sourcing a 115V MF wallwart.....

I think I've got an old 115V Little Pinkie in the workshop somewhere and you can have it for the cost of shipping (£20).... I'll have a look for it tomorrow

Mike.

sorry for my sailors tongue (was in the Navy fo real )

you guys are f**kin' great, I LOVES ya man and not in a longingly looking at your nickers way either ;D

I understand it is just looking, but you surmise all internals to be ok ? or at least not totally funked up?

if so then perhaps I can call this a bargain afterall ? .....

lastly the darker areas I show in photo are not of issue? they just look bad? again n00b here

love to hear the answer to mrarroyo's Q about how to spiffy up the board as well , as it appears mine needs a good once over lol

[Deleted]

I think everyone's on drugs today...... Mick, Chaz lives in the US and the voltage there is 115V.... I doubt the 3 pin wallwart would be any use to him

Bl""dy hell yes, i forgot that, well i have been poorly, and i`m running low on the Prozac, Paxil, Wellbutrin, Efexor, Ritalin and Focalin

[PinkFloyd]

Mar 7, 2010 21:37:08 GMT MaN227 said:

Mar 7, 2010 21:30:11 GMT PinkFloyd said:

OK, as I suspected, the wallwart is fcked which is the best possible outcome Now it's just a case of sourcing a 115V MF wallwart.....

I think I've got an old 115V Little Pinkie in the workshop somewhere and you can have it for the cost of shipping (£20).... I'll have a look for it tomorrow

Mike.

sorry for my sailors tongue (was in the Navy fo real )

you guys are f**kin' great, I LOVES ya man and not in a longingly looking at your nickers way either ;D

I understand it is just looking, but you surmise all internals to be ok ? or at least not totally funked up?

if so then perhaps I can call this a bargain afterall ? .....

The internals look VERY good to me (MINT in fact) ALL of them have that flux build up around the transistor pads.... if you want to remove it get some isopropyl alcohol and a toothbrush..... dip the toothbrush in the isopropyl and scrub gently.... it will disappear in seconds I wouldn't bother touching it, it's perfectly good (and normal on these boards).......

You're not out of the woods "yet"..... the amp "may" also be faulty but, from looking at it I'm 90% sure it will be ok (best I can do "online" I'm afraid)......

Let me look out this old Pinkie and see how it goes...... I'm pretty sure the amp will work fine

[MaN227]

will send a PM to discuss procurement of one old pink pig ;D and of course upgrades ;D

so one can clean up the whole board in such a way as you discribe? top as well?

not thinking to actually do it now, but for future reference you see.

Mike, if you could only see how I am now smiling from the inside out. Most appreciate it bro, truly.

[PinkFloyd]

so one can clean up the whole board in such a way as you discribe? top as well?

Yes but usually only after a total rework.... I, personally, would leave it as it is Chaz.... it's pretty clean looking....... "cleaning" it, by the way, won't improve SQ! just leave it be mate and let's FIRST establish if it "works"..... I will look out that old Pinkie tomorrow.

Also..... don't rush to "mod" the amp, get to know it first, you may be happy with what you hear...... one step at a time, don't throw your money away

First things first..... try the old Pinkie I am sending and, if it works, get used to the feel of the V3..... a few more months down the line, if you feel any area needs improving we can discuss it then.....

In the meantime, the main priority is getting the amp to play MUSIC.... that "in itself" is a major upgrade over NADA

Mike.

[MaN227]

Amen Sir Pinkus

pack that ol pink pig up and ship its big 'ol behind over here then.

Much obliged

I added a wee extra in the coin purse ;D hope you don't mind ;D

now back to testing, how do I verify if the tubes/valves r good while having no power to unit? or can that even be done?

[Deleted]

Wait for the Pinkie to arrive to test the tubes..
When you have other amps that can accept the used tubes you can give them a try in these amps.
Otherwise I wouldn't bother till little Pinkie has arrived.

Patience is a virtue !

Note on cleaning PCB's in general:
Cleaning PCB's can be benificial in high-ohmic circuits (input stages of amplifiers for instance) for some residue can give some slight conduction when the humidity is high (in the summer) creating ever so small offsests... these offsets can upset Alex.. (don't like offsets too)
(b.t.w. Alex knows this is meant funny with a touch of his knowledge of balanced input circuitery )

Seeing Mike is not worried about the soldering residue of the transistors I would trust his judgement and presume it is part of the output stage or PS and is not influencing the operation.
His cleaning advice is rock(grotto) solid.

I am kind of a nittwitt when it comes to shutting out all possible negative influences so clean PCB's after replacing parts.

the 'moisture' visible on the edges of the PCB is residue of cleaning fluids used after the reflow (a way of automated soldering where a wave of solder passes along the bottom of the PCB) soldering process and completely harmless and proof the PCB has been cleaned.

[Deleted]

I am kind of a nittwitt when it comes to shutting out all possible negative influences so clean PCB's after replacing parts.

Ditto ! ;D
Even if it doesn't work better , it looks better.
But beware of using too much Isopropyl etc. around Offset Correctors with high resistor values.