leo
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Post by leo on Dec 12, 2009 20:33:28 GMT
Hi John, it didn't seem more resolving, just an added sharpness around the edges
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leo
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Post by leo on Dec 16, 2009 15:22:06 GMT
I have the Hiface on loan to compare against the Musiland, should prove fun
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FauDrei
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Post by FauDrei on Dec 16, 2009 19:50:09 GMT
I have the Hiface on loan to compare against the Musiland, should prove fun Nice. Looking forward for your comparison. Got my BNC hiFace a week ago - prefer it over Monitor 01 USD. |
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insomniac
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Post by insomniac on Dec 16, 2009 20:55:09 GMT
I have the Hiface on loan to compare against the Musiland, should prove fun Nice. Looking forward for your comparison. Got my BNC hiFace a week ago - prefer it over Monitor 01 USD. Interesting FauDrei... Are both devices un-modded and being powered from the computers USB port? Have you tried the Hiface with a USB cable by any chance? Hows the Drivers/ASIO support on the Hiface? Loads of questions to help keep you out of trouble for a while  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2009 21:19:19 GMT
Nice. Looking forward for your comparison. Got my BNC hiFace a week ago - prefer it over Monitor 01 USD. Interesting FauDrei... Are both devices un-modded and being powered from the computers USB port? Have you tried the Hiface with a USB cable by any chance? Hows the Drivers/ASIO support on the Hiface? Loads of questions to help keep you out of trouble for a while Dave Just remember that some computers' USB ports ,especially lap tops , can sound shithouse,even with a USB pen which has very high quality .wav files on it,and a very good USB DAC,(modded Benchmark USB DAC) as I found out at a listening session last weekend. i.e. way below the quality from a CD/DVD player with the contents from the same USB pen burned to a Kodak Gold CD-R into the same DAC. Alex |
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FauDrei
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Post by FauDrei on Dec 16, 2009 21:28:32 GMT
Hi insomniac, Take my comment as a first impression - I've done no proper direct comparison yet. Are both devices un-modded and being powered from the computers USB port? Yes. Both are unmodded. Have you tried the Hiface with a USB cable by any chance? Yes, my setup, for time being require hiFace on a 1,5 m USB extension cable. In fact I've never tried it directly from USB port.  Hows the Drivers/ASIO support on the Hiface? Unlike Monitor 01 USD, hiFace requires ASIO4all or something similar for ASIO support. But it does ASIO. And kernel streaming (KS). And Direct Sound (DS). All that on XP x32 (have not tested on Win7 x64 yet). |
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FauDrei
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Post by FauDrei on Dec 16, 2009 21:42:46 GMT
Just remember that some computers' USB ports ,especially lap tops , can sound shithouse, ... Miracles do happen! Alex and I agree on something... ...although from different perspectives, but nevertheless... Yes, some (mainly cheap) hardware implementations of USB ports are almost unacceptable. And you should always take into consideration the software (driver) part too. In fact, I reckon, the "no drivers necessary", "one driver fits all USB audio devices" opportunistic manufacturer's approach is one of key reasons why USB based audio has ill reputation. Having appropriate drivers (like Monitor and hiFace do) should in most accounts be superior to unified driver. If this driver use device controlled asynchronous data (music) transfer - we really are going in the right direction  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2009 21:58:12 GMT
Valter
Having heard the Benchmark USB DAC sound virtually identical via USB in comparison with SPDIF from my PC, it shows just how poor some of these laptops must be. Perhaps a list of known good performers with Audio would be helpful, but I guess that the vast majority of the better performing laptops would cost around the same as a normal good PC ?
Alex
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FauDrei
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Post by FauDrei on Dec 16, 2009 23:04:30 GMT
Having heard the Benchmark USB DAC sound virtually identical via USB in comparison with SPDIF from my PC, it shows just how poor some of these laptops must be. Alex, you sure that they were identical? OK, I'm not Benchmark fan, leaning more on the oposite (too damn harsh bright), but I do think it does better through SPDIF. If I recall corectly, HagUSB in the chain sounded better than direct to Benchmark's USB in. Agree on "bad USB ports" part. Bad HW implementation with afterthought drivers and poor or none OS administration can make any USB port unusable for audio. ...but I guess that the vast majority of the better performing laptops would cost around the same as a normal good PC ? Sadly, good laptops cost at least twice as much as their performance matching desktop counterparts. Heck, for the cost of my latest ThinkPad I could have scrapped up a gamer's dream PC. Component by component.  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2009 0:26:33 GMT
Valter
It was of necessity a brief listening session, but the results were certainly very close, and in line with the manufacture's claims. i.e. better USB performance. It did not however correct for jitter elsewhere, which the manufacturer alludes to, but without being completely specific.This Benchmark was further improved by replacing the generic SM NE5532 with SM LM4562. A PSU upgrade using a JLH is planned by my friend.
Alex
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leo
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Post by leo on Dec 17, 2009 9:02:29 GMT
I've had chance to try the Benchmark dac a few times and never been impressed by it at all.
Tweaking it would help but still not enough imo, seems a lot of money to spend on a unit anyway if the owner feels the need to improve it
USB chips do seems to have improved a lot lately, I don't know whats in the Benchmark but it seems it can only accept up to 96k , newer offerings can now do 176.4 and 192
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2009 9:22:52 GMT
Leo
We quickly replaced the Benchmark with my modified X-DAC V3 for the tests.
Especially since the beefed up JLH, it clearly outperformed the Benchmark, and also easily outperformed the Marantz SA11.
Alex
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FauDrei
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Post by FauDrei on Dec 17, 2009 10:37:24 GMT
But, but, but... doesn't the X-DAC V3 have tubes inside?!? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2009 10:58:03 GMT
But, but, but... doesn't the X-DAC V3 have tubes inside?!? Only the one that Miguel got rid off. |
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FauDrei
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Post by FauDrei on Dec 17, 2009 11:37:51 GMT
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insomniac
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Post by insomniac on Dec 17, 2009 21:30:15 GMT
Interesting FauDrei... Are both devices un-modded and being powered from the computers USB port? Have you tried the Hiface with a USB cable by any chance? Hows the Drivers/ASIO support on the Hiface? Loads of questions to help keep you out of trouble for a while Dave Just remember that some computers' USB ports ,especially lap tops , can sound shithouse,even with a USB pen which has very high quality .wav files on it,and a very good USB DAC,(modded Benchmark USB DAC) as I found out at a listening session last weekend. i.e. way below the quality from a CD/DVD player with the contents from the same USB pen burned to a Kodak Gold CD-R into the same DAC. Alex I'm currently experimenting with the Musiland on an old(ancient) notebook with a stripped bare Windows XP installation (nLite) running from a small SSD. Using the latest version of Foobar with the Musiland ASIO drivers and it all sounds very good indeed, particularly running from the notebooks internal battery. The notebook is practically useless in this configuration for anything other than audio playback but I believe the sound quality is better without all the mostly unneeded crap that runs in the background of a computer with standard operating system installed. Also no internet connection = no need or Firewall/Anti-virus/Anti-spyware/Security updates etc either so the CPU is mostly idle much of the time. Playback from SSD or USB flash drive both give similar good results. I'll try network streaming too at some point via wired connection to server just to see how they compare. Resisting the temptation (for now ;D) to rip the guts out and fit them in a nice case with a big fan-less heatsink for the CPU. |
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insomniac
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Post by insomniac on Dec 17, 2009 21:42:50 GMT
Hi insomniac, Take my comment as a first impression - I've done no proper direct comparison yet. Are both devices un-modded and being powered from the computers USB port? Yes. Both are unmodded. Yes, my setup, for time being require hiFace on a 1,5 m USB extension cable. In fact I've never tried it directly from USB port. Hows the Drivers/ASIO support on the Hiface? Unlike Monitor 01 USD, hiFace requires ASIO4all or something similar for ASIO support. But it does ASIO. And kernel streaming (KS). And Direct Sound (DS). All that on XP x32 (have not tested on Win7 x64 yet). Cheers FauDrei, nice to know that the hiFace is capable of ASIO, just lacking the native drivers. Hopefully the manufacturer will release these at some point in the future if demand is strong enough. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2009 21:44:09 GMT
Dave
TBH, I can't see anything wrong ,and it may even be an advantage, to have something like a dual core processor with it's integral fan.The noise and vibration is minimised by the processor being mounted on the motherboard, and not in direct contact with the case.The main problems appear to be due to noise and vibration from the SMPS and it's fans ,which are coupled right through the case. Attenuating both internal and external vibration from the Optical drives is very worthwhile.Yes, the 3M 2552 tape (36yards x 2" wide) is expensive at around US$100 a roll, but becomes quite economical if shared between 4 or 5 people. I am getting sensational results via this approach , but not sacrificing other areas of performance, which includes video rendering and playback. Of course it is wise to have no more programs on there than necessary, and if possible do not use it onthe Internet.Even working "offline" helps avoid most of the very infrequent playback glitches, but not needing an anti virus installed would be a definite advantage.
Alex
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jkeny
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Post by jkeny on Dec 17, 2009 22:48:24 GMT
Guys, A recent post from Thorsten identifies the shortcomings of the Musiland units along with measurements plus the mods needed to address these issues - very informative www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=66884Basically, the USB PS is detrimental (as is the switching supplies on the 01US). The SPDIF is just about broken & needs some change of components for a reasonable performance. Better to use I2S out or bypass the SPDIF transformer & change the resistive divider I'm looking into the HiFace now! |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2009 1:00:52 GMT
Guys, A recent post from Thorsten identifies the shortcomings of the Musiland units along with measurements plus the mods needed to address these issues - very informative www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=pcaudio&m=66884Basically, the USB PS is detrimental (as is the switching supplies on the 01US). The SPDIF is just about broken & needs some change of components for a reasonable performance. Better to use I2S out or bypass the SPDIF transformer & change the resistive divider I'm looking into the HiFace now! John Very interesting. Let's hope a few people heed the advice given by Thorsten, and then report back on how much better it sounds. Alex |
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insomniac
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Post by insomniac on Dec 18, 2009 1:26:10 GMT
Alex, For a general purpose computer I agree with the extra steps taken regarding damping etc. I have applied the 3M tape (thanks Syd ) to various hard drives, my main Plextor ripping drive and the casing of a few PSU's. The reason for trying the notebook/laptop approach is to avoid the SMPS altogether and use battery power. The CPU fan switches on and off as needed to cool the processor and I can hear it so that would be a reason to replace it with a fan-less heatsink, obviously not possible in the current casing. My goal is to remove all motors from the machine. Dave |
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insomniac
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Post by insomniac on Dec 18, 2009 1:29:30 GMT
Thanks for the link John, some more useful info there  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2009 1:53:35 GMT
Alex, For a general purpose computer I agree with the extra steps taken regarding damping etc. I have applied the 3M tape (thanks Syd ) to various hard drives, my main Plextor ripping drive and the casing of a few PSU's. The reason for trying the notebook/laptop approach is to avoid the SMPS altogether and use battery power. The CPU fan switches on and off as needed to cool the processor and I can hear it so that would be a reason to replace it with a fan-less heatsink, obviously not possible in the current casing. My goal is to remove all motors from the machine. Dave Dave Going by recent experiences with USB from a laptop, I think it may also be worthwhile to use a reasonable soundcard with SPDIF Out. This is what my friend said after our recent listening session, where the possibility of far superior audio was there, but fell far short of being even as good as the CD player and DAC combo. He already has a LG BR writer and 3M tape. Alex "For the next session I'll make sure that we have a dedicated PC with dual core intel processor and an Asus SC. " |
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insomniac
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Post by insomniac on Dec 18, 2009 2:22:27 GMT
That's bad news Alex  Were the computer and CD player both fed to the same DAC via SPDIF during the comparison? Do you recall the model of soundcard/s and CD player used? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2009 2:43:57 GMT
That's bad news Alex Were the computer and CD player both fed to the same DAC via SPDIF during the comparison? Do you recall the model of soundcard/s and CD player used? Dave My friend David normally uses an Asuss Xonar SC and LG BluRay writer in his main PC., but this was from a laptop via USB for convenience, with no more on it than necessary. I will PM you a copy of the listening test reults. Alex |
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