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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2009 21:41:47 GMT
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jkeny
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Post by jkeny on Nov 17, 2009 2:35:27 GMT
Thanks Alex, Done & here it is:  BTW, Leo, I'm getting some reports from a trusted source that the Musiland suffers from Data correlated jitter - might give it a bit of warmth in the mid & this could be! I don't know if the SPDIF transformer slows down the signal a bit & can ameliorate the HF hash that comes from the PC. Bypassing the transformer may well reveal this hash. I may be experiencing this hash with my PCM1793 output stage which uses transformer, bypassing the original op-amp? The Nickel based one has more hf hash on it's output compared to the Sescom which would make sense with the higher bandwith of the nickle trafo. Fred (fmak) over on AA www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/6/65038.html has done some testing & here's what he says |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2009 2:53:45 GMT
Thanks Alex, Done & here it is: BTW, Leo, I'm getting some reports from a trusted source that the Musiland suffers from Data correlated jitter - might give it a bit of warmth in the mid & this could be! I don't know if the SPDIF transformer slows down the signal a bit & can ameliorate the HF hash that comes from the PC. Bypassing the transformer may well reveal this hash. I may be experiencing this hash with my PCM1793 output stage which uses transformer, bypassing the original op-amp? The Nickel based one has more hf hash on it's output compared to the Sescom which would make sense with the higher bandwith of the nickle trafo. Fred (fmak) over on AA www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/6/65038.html has done some testing & here's what he says John Seriously, is a little extra HF out of band products such a big deal with a decent wide bandwidth, low distortion amplifier ? What sounds best in this case ,rolling off the bandwidth prematurely,at the DAC, or letting the low level HF rubbish through where with a decent system, it is unlikely to be noticed,as the amplifier takes it all in it's stride ? Just posing the question. You guys have more experience in this area than I do. Alex |
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leo
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Post by leo on Nov 17, 2009 9:02:13 GMT
Have to shoot off in a mo Anyway for the stock BNC output I basically tried adjusting R2 to 330R and R4 to 100R as recommended by a guy on Headfi, (will find the link later), this gets us closer to 75R output impedance , I also replaced the supplied pulse traffo with a Newava S22083  Comparing direct this sounded better to me than the output with pulse traffo removed, I don't have any test gear here at the moment so can only rely on the ears for now. I was listening to some 174.6k HRX material, its extremely good, I can assure theres not a hint of harshness. I'm struggling measuring the output voltage on either output with my digital MM BTW Alex, High res Flacs sucks ass big time compared to the same thing with Wav, Flac very noticeably smooth's out the edges, the sound sounds sickly sweet lacking the dynamics of Wav |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2009 10:35:42 GMT
Leo Surprise, surprise ! However, not so much difference with a fully dampened and quietened PC, but using the 32GB Corsair Voyager GT USB 2.0 for both saving the original DL .flac file, and converting the original .flac file to .wav, then playing back directly from there. The HDD fan being disabled during the whole process definitely helps too. Alex P.S. I bet you wouldn't be game to post such heresy in other forums !!! ;D |
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jkeny
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Post by jkeny on Nov 17, 2009 19:04:55 GMT
Have to shoot off in a mo Anyway for the stock BNC output I basically tried adjusting R2 to 330R and R4 to 100R as recommended by a guy on Headfi, (will find the link later), this gets us closer to 75R output impedance , I also replaced the supplied pulse traffo with a Newava S22083 Comparing direct this sounded better to me than the output with pulse traffo removed, I don't have any test gear here at the moment so can only rely on the ears for now. AFAIR, the Newava is not capable of the high bandwith needed for 24/192 - have you experienced anything which suggests this? Did you try bypassing the transformer by taking the output from before the trafo? Get your flame suit now ;D |
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jkeny
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Post by jkeny on Nov 17, 2009 19:11:03 GMT
Alex,
The HF hash is no problem for me because analog out is going through a transformer which bandwith limits it anyway! But, ifyou feed the SPDIF signal into an external DAC with an output stage using an op-amp, then slew rate limiting & distortion might be an issue?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2009 19:38:43 GMT
Alex, The HF hash is no problem for me because analog out is going through a transformer which bandwith limits it anyway! But, ifyou feed the SPDIF signal into an external DAC with an output stage using an op-amp, then slew rate limiting & distortion might be an issue? Hi John That was indeed a problem with the NE5532 etc.opamps in earlier Philips and Marantz generic CD player circuitry. Ben Duncan wrote a short series of articles in Hi Fi News and Record Review (?) many years ago that addressed the issue. It would be a sad indictment of any modern DAC that had in it's output sufficient HF rubbish to upset recent high slew rate opamps or discrete amplifiers. Of course, it goes without saying that there should be some find of relatively gentle filtering at the output to relieve this problem. I have even read reviews of a relatively recent high quality CD player which had no measureable digital artifacts in it's output. Manufacturer's application notes often show a much higher degree of filtering to make their DACs look even better specification wise , than other highly regarded members of the same family which although superseded, are interchangeable.Check out BurrBrown DSD1792 etc. As an example my MF X-DAC V3 which uses this chip , has far less filtering components than the recently published SiliconChip DAC, which uses a lesser member of the same family, but basically uses the application notes. I can email you the circuit of this new DAC if you are interested. Alex |
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leo
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Post by leo on Nov 17, 2009 21:21:33 GMT
Have to shoot off in a mo Anyway for the stock BNC output I basically tried adjusting R2 to 330R and R4 to 100R as recommended by a guy on Headfi, (will find the link later), this gets us closer to 75R output impedance , I also replaced the supplied pulse traffo with a Newava S22083 Comparing direct this sounded better to me than the output with pulse traffo removed, I don't have any test gear here at the moment so can only rely on the ears for now. AFAIR, the Newava is not capable of the high bandwith needed for 24/192 - have you experienced anything which suggests this? Did you try bypassing the transformer by taking the output from before the trafo? Get your flame suit now ;D The Newava was all I had to hand, I've now compared it to the stock fitted one, sonically I prefer the Newava Problem is I don't have suitable gear here for testing Oh, flame suit is on  |
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leo
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Post by leo on Nov 17, 2009 21:34:38 GMT
Theres a few free downloads on here, some available in both WAV and FLAC for say 96k www.2l.no/ clear difference to my ears, FLAC is softer around the edges, less dynamic I'm using Foobar with the Musiland, can't get Creative media source5 to work properly with the Musiland |
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insomniac
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Post by insomniac on Nov 19, 2009 22:32:27 GMT
Listening via one of these 01USD atm and have to say it's pretty decent even in bog standard form after upgrading to the latest firmware and installing the encrypted driver(Version 1.0.7.0). The ASIO latency is impressive for such an affordable device... 5ms and rock solid with no dropouts. Looking forward to performing some of the modifications mentioned by Leo, jkeny etc to change the BNC connector to a 75ohm type, bypass the USB power supply and possibly upgrade the clock. Thanks for the pointer Valter... I will be keeping an eye on future Musiland gear if it turns out as good as this!  |
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leo
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Post by leo on Nov 24, 2009 23:47:52 GMT
I know I've been accused of having hearing like a bat  but changing that 50R BNC to a 75R alone gave a noticeable difference straight away to me |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2009 0:03:26 GMT
I know I've been accused of having hearing like a bat but changing that 50R BNC to a 75R alone gave a noticeable difference straight away to me Leo Put it down to experience, and an ability to keep an open mind. Alex |
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jkeny
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Post by jkeny on Nov 25, 2009 2:25:09 GMT
Good Leo, can you compare it to taking the signal off from before the transformer i.e just through the resistor divider? I have done some more mods on my unit - completely turning off all the output stage & sending I2S to a 2 channel Sabre Vout DAC - excellent sound - best I've heard coming out of this unit so far. Thread here www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/155622-musiland-01us-usb-dac-i2s-into-sabre.html Again, I hope this linking to other forum isn't too objectionable. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2009 2:34:10 GMT
John It doesn't worry me , and I doubt that it worries Mike. Mike isn't paranoid like some. Don't post any links to nude women though, that is guaranteed to upset MERTON. Alex |
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jkeny
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Post by jkeny on Nov 25, 2009 17:25:42 GMT
Thanks, Alex, I won't ask about it again!
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leo
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Post by leo on Nov 25, 2009 18:19:21 GMT
Good Leo, can you compare it to taking the signal off from before the transformer i.e just through the resistor divider? I have done some more mods on my unit - completely turning off all the output stage & sending I2S to a 2 channel Sabre Vout DAC - excellent sound - best I've heard coming out of this unit so far. Thread here www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/155622-musiland-01us-usb-dac-i2s-into-sabre.html Again, I hope this linking to other forum isn't too objectionable. Yes, I'll try it before the transformer to see how it compares The Newava sounded better to me than the stock one so I'm sure no traffo at all using same attenuation will sound even more different Just wish I had a higher bandwidth scope Nice thread btw, I don't think the USD is set for outputting s/pdif which is a shame |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2009 21:04:51 GMT
John
I often look at what you have to say too,when I see your name pop up elsewhere.
Keep 'em on their toes! That reminds me, I must see what reply you got from that interesting vendor.
Alex
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jkeny
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Post by jkeny on Nov 25, 2009 22:28:05 GMT
Yes, I'll try it before the transformer to see how it compares The Newava sounded better to me than the stock one so I'm sure no traffo at all using same attenuation will sound even more different Just wish I had a higher bandwidth scope Nice thread btw, I don't think the USD is set for outputting s/pdif which is a shame Do you mean the 01US doesn't have SPDIF output? Yes, it only has Toslink or analog outs but that's why I was asking about the SPDIF as I reckon I could do a job on the Toslink to convert it to SPDIF but I'm wondering if I can dispense with the SPDIF trafo? BTW, I'm listening to this set-up now & it is the best sounding combo I have had in my system. I reckon it would make an amazing portable USB amplifier (running off batteries)! Thanks Alex, I lose it a bit sometimes but I hate double speak & bullshit especially so-called "engineers" or those in the business that wave their credentials over us. I guess I have problems with authority figures - time for more counselling ;D |
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jkeny
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Post by jkeny on Nov 25, 2009 22:46:30 GMT
Alex, I reckon my system is now at a level that I can give your listening tests a fair audition - I'll have a go now  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2009 22:48:02 GMT
John
I will send you a link to one that Leo commented on yesterday.
Alex
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jkeny
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Post by jkeny on Nov 26, 2009 0:08:22 GMT
Big difference between the two tracks - one sounds distant & missing some timbre around instruments & voices ; the other has a richness & timbre with a more projected, 3D sound. I won't say which is which so as not to influence others.
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Post by clausdk on Nov 28, 2009 22:33:59 GMT
How good is this compared to the Aune ??
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leo
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Post by leo on Dec 7, 2009 16:27:41 GMT
Good Leo, can you compare it to taking the signal off from before the transformer i.e just through the resistor divider? I have done some more mods on my unit - completely turning off all the output stage & sending I2S to a 2 channel Sabre Vout DAC - excellent sound - best I've heard coming out of this unit so far. Thread here www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/155622-musiland-01us-usb-dac-i2s-into-sabre.html Again, I hope this linking to other forum isn't too objectionable. Yes, I'll try it before the transformer to see how it compares The Newava sounded better to me than the stock one so I'm sure no traffo at all using same attenuation will sound even more different Just wish I had a higher bandwidth scope Nice thread btw, I don't think the USD is set for outputting s/pdif which is a shame Finally compared them, in my system I still liked the output with Newava connected better, its not a huge difference but the pulse traffo output one sounded more detailed in the high's, a little more space around instruments, it sounded slightly more sharp with the traffo bypassed. BUT this maybe because I was still using onboard USB DC supply, using external supply may give a different result making the Newava not needed |
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jkeny
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Post by jkeny on Dec 7, 2009 23:49:45 GMT
Finally compared them, in my system I still liked the output with Newava connected better, its not a huge difference but the pulse traffo output one sounded more detailed in the high's, a little more space around instruments, it sounded slightly more sharp with the traffo bypassed. BUT this maybe because I was still using onboard USB DC supply, using external supply may give a different result making the Newava not needed Thanks Leo, you'll hear a big change when running from good external PS. When you sat sharp with trafo bypassed - is this sharp in the sense of more resolving? |
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but changing that 50R BNC to a 75R alone gave a noticeable difference straight away to me