|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 14, 2009 10:24:56 GMT
I totally agree Mike... They are a total fraud........ It's your mod, 100% infringement. Maybe you can file for lawsuit ? hehe. I don't mind. What I DO mind is the bit where they tell people to ONLY have the work done by MF etc. bloody cheek!  1200uF Panasonic FM. The 1800uF panasonic FK wouldn't fit in this position. Thanks  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2009 10:42:40 GMT
Mike That isn't cheek, it's reality. They have cut you right out of the equation with more recent models,simply by using a shitty breed of solder that you can't easily remove, and replace with good quality stuff, and more appropiate choice of components !  Alex
|
|
|
|
Post by krisno on Jun 14, 2009 13:18:20 GMT
Mike
Send me email regarding payment, shipping etc...
|
|
|
|
Post by dejanm on Jun 14, 2009 17:47:02 GMT
Hi Pink, I did nearly the same mod as you did. In addition I upgraded the reg on the bottom PCB by putting stronger ZTX's and instead of UF I used Telefunken SF4001 and the combination of Panasonic FM and Blackgate Standard electrolytics. For the bottom PCB I bought from you these things that you also used in your mod, except that I replaced some resistors as well (mainly by putting Caddocks instead of metal-oxyds). The only difference is that at the output I used Blackgate Nx 220 uF, 16V but in e-cap configuration. That means, that I put two in parallel per channel (longer leg of one soldered to the shorter leg of the other). This second pair of BG Nx's I soldered on the bottom of the lower PCB. And they are giving me some hard time ... Ah, I also put two NOS Telefunken E88CC instead of the original tubes ... Ah, the external transformer is 12VA. What I experienced with these BGs at the output is that they need a lot of time to burn in. After several hundreds of hours they begin really to sing. I was happy. Than I haven't heard this small amp for some time and when I started it again I remarked the same effect as when they were not burned-in. It seems that BGs Nx must be driven all the time in order to perform at its best. And it seems that having the amp switched on is not enough - they need some current going through them as often as possible. I asked some more experienced guys about this phenomena with BGs Nx caps and they confirmed to me that they have such behaviour. Anyway, interesting issue ... It seems that we should use these caps only in circuits that are permanently under load, if we want to get the best out of them. Hi Dejanm, I agree with you re: the Black Gates, one reason I seldom use them.... perfectly good in low heat generating amps which are "always on" but a pain in the arse in high heat "cookers" which are better off switched off when not in use. For general usage I prefer the Nitai / Suntan non polars... they have virtually zero insertion loss and don't require to be permanently fed with a signal to perform their best! Sure they are "cheap" but expensive doesn't always equate to best sound quality  What value of panasonic did you use? In this incarnation I have adopted the new FK series 1800uF and the extra capacitance seems to be paying dividends in both soundstage and bass departments. I've experimented with quite a few V2's (probably over 100) over the years and it's all about striking the right balance, just throwing uber expensive boutique parts in willy nilly does nothing.... these puppies have to be "fine tuned" and it's oh so easy to over egg your pudding. Telefunkens have a nice sound but, again, are expensive for what they are.... have you tried the Reflector 6N23P? I'm running a pair of 1969 vintage 6N23P in her at the moment and ooh la la they are GOOD! Great little amps though, aren't they?  Hi Mike, I was on small Holidays so that is the reason for posting my answers a bit late ... - What value of panasonic did you use? If I remember correctly it was 1500 uF. I also used Panasonic FM's on the lower PCB as well, where I put 4 of them: 100 uF, 35V. - have you tried the Reflector 6N23P? I have. But Telefunkens are better. They are expencieve - that is correct but if you neglect the price then 6N23P can hardly hold the comparison. - Great little amps though, aren't they? Yes I agree. It is a hybrid class A amp, which is capable of very serious sound reproduction. As all class A amps, its performance depends highly on the power supply quality. Musical Fidelity did it with some serious compromises. Some corrections in this department that we did, do improve things, but power supply should probably be implemented from scratch and in one external box, if we want to squeeze all out of this design. I was reconsidering this idea for some time and then I didn't do that, because it would mean a complete redesign of the unit. In that way, the costs would also considerably increase. Probably I wouldn't also be able to keep the existing enclosure - which I like very much  So, I simply restricted myself on these upgrades that you also mentioned .... |
|
|
|
Post by krisno on Jun 14, 2009 18:49:03 GMT
Dejanm
I have 2x 6922 tungsram, quite expensive. Have you tried them vs the Russians?
But Mike is offering me some really NOS tubes now, some older Reflector's. I don't know which is the better, but I guess I want the most linear tube.
Telefunken is extremly expensive, and I really wonder if it's worth the price as the V2 is a heat pipe and tubes might have short life...
I will hang on to this new X-can V2 until Musical Fidelity is out with a headphone amp based on the new Techtube tubes....
K
|
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 14, 2009 19:02:38 GMT
Mike Send me email regarding payment, shipping etc... Hi Kristian, I will, I'm just finalising a few bits and pieces (still have to make your pinkie) and will e-mail you when all is ready to ship. Mike. |
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 14, 2009 20:21:25 GMT
Kristian,
Should be around Wednesday.... I have a few pinkies to make and will e-mail you when the V2 is ready to go.
|
|
|
|
Post by krisno on Jun 14, 2009 20:50:14 GMT
excellent..... is it really true what SandyK said, that the new Musical Fidelity amps comes with solder that makes modding very difficult? Amazingly clever...
Mike. though the important thing, the tubes.. are these 40year old ones as linear, and have as good bass as the newer 199x reflectors ?? .... well, the tube choice is in your hands. hehe..
K
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2009 21:24:31 GMT
Krisno
To quote Mike :
Re: X Can V8 upgrade kit
« Reply #4 on Jun 8, 2009, 9:18pm »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOT appearing soon I never thought I'd say this but I recommend you DON'T attempt to modify the X-Can V8!
Musical Fidelity, in their infinite wisdom, have chosen to employ a double sided PCB and some seriously "cement like" unleaded solder.... add in the fact they have "glued" the capacitors to the PCB and you are talking "no way are you going to get those bastards out of there easily"
It's pretty easy removing components from a one sided board but removing unleaded soldered components from a double sided board can be a nightmare.
God knows what type of unleaded solder MF are currently using but 530C would hardly touch it (believe me that is HOT).... even the old trick of flooding in some low melting point unleaded wouldn't shift it, horrible stuff!
The bottom line, No way would I contemplate working on this amp and NO WAY would I recommend others to work on it unless they know some way I don't of getting that crap to melt AND suck it out of the double sided pads.... The glued capacitors aren't a problem but the double sided board and cement like unleaded solder are.
I'm really disappointed, I was so looking forward to working on this amp. It probably "could" be done but I strongly recommend leaving well alone.
|
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 14, 2009 22:38:38 GMT
excellent..... is it really true what SandyK said, that the new Musical Fidelity amps comes with solder that makes modding very difficult? Amazingly clever... Mike. though the important thing, the tubes.. are these 40year old ones as linear, and have as good bass as the newer 199x reflectors ?? .... well, the tube choice is in your hands. hehe.. K Don't get me wrong, it's possible to mod a V8 but I will NOT be offering "kits" to do so as I believe more damage (in the wrong hands) than good will occur. Double sided PCB's are a bitch to desolder at the best of times without the added insult of that shit MF are soldering with to contend with..... When you say "linear" what do you mean EXACTLY? do they measure up? YES! as good as the day they were laid.... barn fresh Just listen and you'll know what I mean Mike. |
|
|
|
Post by krisno on Jun 15, 2009 7:14:17 GMT
Mike... OK, ship it with the purple branded 40year old NOS tubes. Excellent.... I can't wait. Maybe they have some more midrange magic than the other 623n's.
I must say, the midrange on the JAN's is very sedutive... I am looking at some telefunken diamondbottom's on ebay now. But probably won't get them, so insainly expensive.
I am looking forward to this amp my friend...... soon the Jupiter's are arriving also!!
K
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2009 7:35:17 GMT
Mike... OK, ship it with the purple branded 40year old NOS tubes. Excellent.... I can't wait. Maybe they have some more midrange magic than the other 623n's. I must say, the midrange on the JAN's is very sedutive... I am looking at some telefunken diamondbottom's on ebay now. But probably won't get them, so insainly expensive. I am looking forward to this amp my friend...... soon the Jupiter's are arriving also!! K Krisno After all this, if you say it shrieks, or anything remotely like that, we will send the guys in white coats around to pay you a visit. SandyK |
|
|
|
Post by dejanm on Jun 15, 2009 7:37:45 GMT
Dejanm I have 2x 6922 tungsram, quite expensive. Have you tried them vs the Russians? I haven't. I can't say much about Tungsram's .... But Mike is offering me some really NOS tubes now, some older Reflector's. I don't know which is the better, but I guess I want the most linear tube. You have to try to find that out. Reflektor 6N23P-EV are very linear indeed. If you read that article on the Borbely site, you would see the comparison that he made with different tubes, finding out that 6N23P is more linear than many others (even more expencieve) that he tried. But linearity is not everything ... you have to hear it in a concrete unit to find out what you like the most. Telefunken is extremly expensive, and I really wonder if it's worth the price as the V2 is a heat pipe and tubes might have short life... Whether Telefunkens are worth considering the price is the personal matter - everybody has to decide for himeslef. I compared Telefunkens with many other e88cc tubes and nothing sounded as good as these German NOS tubes ... Concerning the life: they are estimated to have a duration of 10.000 hours. The fact that the tempreture in the V2 units can be rather high, probably has some influence but nothing that you should worry about. Have in mind that most of these tubes have been made according to the military specs, which means that they are made to work good in hostile environments. I have another pair of Telefunkens (which I bought second-hand on eBay) that are working inside MF X-10D for 3 years now without any issues. |
|
|
|
Post by krisno on Jun 15, 2009 9:04:14 GMT
With the jupiters it will be hard for it to be harsh... AKG's really is headphone you don't want to go. It's not as musical as for instance the ultrasones. I will borrow the most expensive ultrasones soon, will try them out.... but first the jupiters, then the x-can v2 from mike. It looks very nice, I am sure it will be excellent and alot of fun!
|
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 15, 2009 20:46:36 GMT
Dejanm I have 2x 6922 tungsram, quite expensive. Have you tried them vs the Russians? But Mike is offering me some really NOS tubes now, some older Reflector's. I don't know which is the better, but I guess I want the most linear tube. Telefunken is extremly expensive, and I really wonder if it's worth the price as the V2 is a heat pipe and tubes might have short life... I will hang on to this new X-can V2 until Musical Fidelity is out with a headphone amp based on the new Techtube tubes.... K The 1969 vintage is not set in stone Kristian... I have stock from the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's... basically pick your year and I'll do my best to accomodate you To say the 1969 vintage sounds and different from, say, 1985 vintage would be talking out of my arse..... however, the older ones just "feel" nicer if that makes any sense? just knowing they are 40 years old adds a bit of mystery doesn't it? I should have everything finalised and ready to go by the end of the week.... I want to make sure this amp sounds absolutely perfect for you |
|
|
|
Post by krisno on Jun 16, 2009 6:55:19 GMT
hehe... great.
regarding tubes - just keep the 40 year old ones you have there now. great! As long as the bass is as good as the 199x series. The reflectors really have good bass !
K
|
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 16, 2009 21:44:32 GMT
hehe... great. regarding tubes - just keep the 40 year old ones you have there now. great! As long as the bass is as good as the 199x series. The reflectors really have good bass ! K Bass is the best I have heard from a V2. I have 14 Little Pinkies to make (including yours) and should be ready to ship next week Kristian |
|
|
|
Post by krisno on Jun 17, 2009 14:52:33 GMT
Great, is that with the 69 tubes? excellent! Just remember 1,5meter cable.
If you do anything else to it, please report. But it does not seem to be anything else needed, and we don't want to make this a guniea pig.
K
|
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 17, 2009 20:51:36 GMT
Great, is that with the 69 tubes? Yes, 1969 vintage will be installed. 1.5 metre it is Don't worry Kristian I won't be doing anything off the wall to it.... I have the v2 recipe down to pretty much a fine art and will definitely not over egg the pudding.... most of the pictures have disappered but you can still see a few v2's here: rockgrotto.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=q&action=display&thread=1961 |
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 18, 2009 20:28:54 GMT
That's it all ready to rock and roll Kristian II hooked the Little Pinkie up earlier on and, wow, even further improvements! I'd forgotten just how huge an improvement the Pinkie made.... bags more of everything in spade loads..... Listening now with AKG K-701 and they are just spot on, deep tuneful bass, organic mids and silky smooth treble.... the way they SHOULD sound.... not the merest hint of harshness.... in fact, the V2 / K-701 is the perfect partnership. Ready to ship when you are.... I've got a feeling you're going to like this one |
|
|
|
Post by krisno on Jun 18, 2009 22:46:39 GMT
I am absolutly sure that I will like it... It looks perfect, and it is done perfect... and if anything it is the source which is the problem. I will never need another tube headphone amp.
Not that I can spend any more money on this either..
hehe.. I will pay you as soon as possible!
|
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 21, 2009 22:33:34 GMT
Hi Dejanm, I agree with you re: the Black Gates, one reason I seldom use them.... perfectly good in low heat generating amps which are "always on" but a pain in the arse in high heat "cookers" which are better off switched off when not in use. For general usage I prefer the Nitai / Suntan non polars... they have virtually zero insertion loss and don't require to be permanently fed with a signal to perform their best! Sure they are "cheap" but expensive doesn't always equate to best sound quality What value of panasonic did you use? In this incarnation I have adopted the new FK series 1800uF and the extra capacitance seems to be paying dividends in both soundstage and bass departments. I've experimented with quite a few V2's (probably over 100) over the years and it's all about striking the right balance, just throwing uber expensive boutique parts in willy nilly does nothing.... these puppies have to be "fine tuned" and it's oh so easy to over egg your pudding. Telefunkens have a nice sound but, again, are expensive for what they are.... have you tried the Reflector 6N23P? I'm running a pair of 1969 vintage 6N23P in her at the moment and ooh la la they are GOOD! Great little amps though, aren't they? Hi Mike, I was on small Holidays so that is the reason for posting my answers a bit late ... - What value of panasonic did you use? If I remember correctly it was 1500 uF. I also used Panasonic FM's on the lower PCB as well, where I put 4 of them: 100 uF, 35V. - have you tried the Reflector 6N23P? I have. But Telefunkens are better. They are expencieve - that is correct but if you neglect the price then 6N23P can hardly hold the comparison. - Great little amps though, aren't they? Yes I agree. It is a hybrid class A amp, which is capable of very serious sound reproduction. As all class A amps, its performance depends highly on the power supply quality. Musical Fidelity did it with some serious compromises. Some corrections in this department that we did, do improve things, but power supply should probably be implemented from scratch and in one external box, if we want to squeeze all out of this design. I was reconsidering this idea for some time and then I didn't do that, because it would mean a complete redesign of the unit. In that way, the costs would also considerably increase. Probably I wouldn't also be able to keep the existing enclosure - which I like very much So, I simply restricted myself on these upgrades that you also mentioned .... I wonder just how much we could comfortably fit on the PSU board ;D Certainly 10 x 2200uF panasonic FC with funky angling and most definitely 10 x 3300uF Panasonic FK (L 25mm X D 18mm)..... sooooo, assuming we can get 33,000uF on board, that is three times stock.... I'll experiment with one of my V2's and see if this is worthwhile |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2009 22:52:39 GMT
Mike Are you trying to blow the bloody thing up ?  Not only would you possibly need beefier rectifier bridges, but also a much beefier power supply that can stand that huge initial surge current. I would be concerned about long term reliability with such a scenario, uncless additional precautions are taken. Alex |
|
|
|
Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 21, 2009 23:00:34 GMT
Mike Are you trying to blow the bloody thing up ? Not only would you possibly need beefier rectifier bridges, but also a much beefier power supply that can stand that huge initial surge current. I would be concerned about long term reliability with such a scenario, uncless additional precautions are taken. Alex As say.... I'll "try" it and see what pans out Alex. It was originally the tech at MF who suggested that "more" capacitance is the way to go.... obviously though there is a fine line between optimum and overkill...... I know that 18,000 - 20,000uF is no problem with the circuit "as is".... maybe "30,000" is a tad keen but let's see what occurs  |
|
|
|
Post by dejanm on Jun 22, 2009 7:25:39 GMT
Adding more capacitance in the filtering part will not heart if the transformer is correspondigly sized. In your case it is ... But if you want to get the real improvement in the sound, the whole PSU part should be redesigned and put in a separate box.
Putting a choke in a main filter would be certainly a very good idea. Implementing reg for main supply and especially current reg for tubes would be another very good idea. These regs should be something better than already implemented one in the MF unit. It woulld be also good to separate PSU for tubes from rest of the circuit - different transformers. At the moment the grids are connected in series - it would be better to have them in parallel - maybe completely separated one from each other. etc. etc.
This means not only to implement the PSU in an external box but also to do some changes in the unit itself: to remove nearly completely the upper PCB; to change a bit the main PCB .... Having that in mind, it is probably better to do it everything from scratch anyway. But then - it wouldn't be an upgrade anymore and the cost would be much higher. On the other hand, the design of V2 unit has a lot of potential and I wonder how it would sing in this "Ferrari" version ...
The alternative is to go "middle-of-the-road" way. One possibility would be to redesign the upper PCB by putting some of these ideas on this new PCB. It will have though to have the same inputs and outputs, in order to keep the costs under control. That would be perhaps very interesting thing to do. The customers would buy only the upper PCB (as a kit or already ensambled) and they will have only to replace it at home.
Only an idea ...
|
|
So, I simply restricted myself on these upgrades that you also mentioned .... 
