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Post by idc on Apr 28, 2009 17:31:56 GMT
I bought an XcanV2 new in a sealed box from Loud & Clear in Glasgow in 2002. I auditioned it with various headphones and settled on the Grado SR80s. The V2 was always going to be the amp I got because it had good reviews, I liked the shape and it was right in my budget. Originally it was part of my hifi which was an Arcam Alpha 7, then CD62/Rega Mira/B&Ws. But due to house moves, space and a relative giving me an ipod, I decided to go digital. The traditional hifi (minus the V2) went to an ex-professional musician a bit down on his luck, traded for a bottle of Jura's finest malt and I got a Sounddock. I then got a Russ Andrews GQ-24 cable and plugged the ipod into the back of the V2. I really enjoyed the sound and felt for the money and convenience it was a very good compromise. The eventual aim was to add a DAC and have a PC based setup. After a fat wage on top of a wage increase (yes, I am lucky) I decided to improve the amp. I found out about modding and decided that made more sense and is cheaper than buying a new amp. I got in touch with Mike at Rock Grotto and agreed a price for me to send the V2 to have new valves, diodes, caps fitted. I declined the DIY route due to no experience whatsoever. I then received an e-mail from Mike to say that when he had opened the V2, it was not the V2 inside. Instead it was the PCB from the original Xcans.  That was later on the Friday and so I had the weekend to decide what to do. I am a member of the What hifi forum, so I posted there and got advice re the Sale of Goods Act that made sense. I checked it and cetainly the Xcan was covered under 'not as described' and in Scotland you have 5 years to act after discovery. In England it is 6 years after the sale and I was at 7 years. The Act stated that my recourse was through the seller, so I contacted Loud & Clear. It was a Saturday morning, probably not the best time to call. Anyway the chap I spoke to said he had not heard of such a thing, but I could bring it in and they would see what could be done. Under the Sale of Goods Act, I figured that under the Act I would get a partial refund and then I would need to get a new amp. I had been communicating with Mike who said that this was not the first time he had found the wrong electricals inside a V2. But it was probably people who had bought second hand V2s from dodgy types who had swapped stuff around. I had bought mine new and it had never been out of my possesion. Mike was very helpful and took photos of the PCB and e-mailed them to me. I compared it with the interior of the V2 shown on the Rock Grotto site and even I could see a clear difference. Most obvious was on the V2 the PCB said Xcan on it. Mine had nothing. I spent the rest of the weekend searching the internet under faulty Xcans, problems with Xcans, anything I could think of. But I found no ther instance of a new V2, or indeed any Musical Fidelity product with the same problem. On Monday I phoned MF and spoke to Indira. She was helpful, but needed me to repeatedly explain the issue, denied that this could have happened and eventually she asked if I phone again later and speak to Simon in the technical department. I did so and again he was helpful, but he found it hard to believe what I was telling him. He suggested that he would search and see if they had a V2 PCB and I could send the amp to them, have it fitted and get a discount on their own modding service. I said that my preference was to have them send a V2 PCB to Rock Grotto. Simon said he would contact me again. A couple of hours later the phone rang and I was speaking to Antony Michaelson, founder of MF! He was apologetic, again could not understand how this had happened and I explained my evidence of where I had bought it and what had been found. He then told me that if I sent the Xcan to them they would send me a V8, free! Later on Antony phoned again and said that all I needed to do was e-mail a friend of his (he does not do e-mail, nor does MF) the photos Mike had sent. I did so and the V8 is on its way. The explanation I have from MF is that at the manufacturing stage an old Xcans PCB has ended up in my V2. They say it is the first and only time they have come across this and as I said above, I cannot find a report of another time it has happened. I am obviously very happy with MFs customer service. But I really want to thank Mike as he has lost business over this and he has spent time being very helpful. If you offer a modding service for the V8.....! |
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Post by clausdk on Apr 28, 2009 20:27:05 GMT
You could support Mike and do yourself a favour and buy a set of valves and a little pinkie, that is quite easy to change.
It sounds great in the Xcan V8..
But a good customer service and some red ears at MF, is a gooood thing
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Post by idc on Apr 28, 2009 21:18:19 GMT
Sure thing, so the Little Pinky is compatable with the V8? I have left the V2 with Mike to use as spares, the case is immaculate and the PSB etc still works.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Apr 30, 2009 20:40:40 GMT
Hi Ian, Glad all has turned out well and good to see MF have not only admitted they made a "mistake" but have also done the right thing and are sending you their latest and greatest (V8) as a gesture of goodwill. I seriously doubt you are the only one to have a V1 in a V2 enclosure though...... As I said to you in my e-mail I have come across this a couple of times but have always put it down to unscrupulous V1 owners buying a V2, swapping boards and selling their V1 off in a V2 enclosure..... I'm now of the opinion that MF had a few V1 boards left when they launched the V2 and these V1 boards made their way into V2 enclosures.... VERY bad practice but these things, unfortunately, happen sometimes..... It's good they have admitted it though and good that you took the time to follow it through quoting the sale of goods act (1974) etc..... NO way would Anthony part with an amp unless he had to (MF are notoriously stingy with freebies) so this suggests they knew a few V1's made it out of the factory in V2 clothes. Whatever....... it's all done and dusted now, you're getting a brand new V8 so all is good  I hope you'll post your impressions of the V8 on the forum Ian. My offer still stands, I'll mod your V8 free of charge and give you a 10 year warranty.... I know what it feels like when your hopes are dashed, it isn't a nice feeling, so please allow me to supplement the good vibes you've had from MF and let's get that baby V8 rockin'! All the best, Mike. |
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Post by clausdk on Apr 30, 2009 20:59:06 GMT
Hmmm The mods you are talking about, what are they ??
I got a Pinkie and those great valves that you sell, are there more to be done ??
BTW it my opinion it would be kind of stupid not taking up Mike on his word about modding and 10 YEARS of warranty
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Post by idc on Apr 30, 2009 22:50:13 GMT
Hi Mike,
reading between the lines I think there may well be some V1s with V2 innards as well. But MF were clearly very unhappy, as opposed to a OK these things happen, sorry attitude. Antony Michaelson can swear, a lot! I even got a follow up phone call today to ask if everything is alright, which it certainly is!
When I can part myself from the V8 it will make the trip up north. One thing that I did find on the V8 was a very long thread on a forum which included pictures of the innards. Something was glued in place, the capacitors I think (I'll get my head round these new terms one day!). So for clausdk and me what are the mods going to be?
Thanks
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Post by PinkFloyd on May 1, 2009 20:37:01 GMT
WAY too good an amp to relegate it to "spares" Ian, as I said to you in my e-mail I actually prefer the V1 over the v2.... it's a true hybrid and oh so responsive to tweaks, valve / opamp rolls etc. The V1 was made in England and a true classic IMO.... at the time it came out it was one of the zaniest things I had seen in audio..... a hybrid amp in an aluminium can? Only an eccentric Englishman could come up with such an idea... it was TRULY unique at the time. The price? £129 GBP.... not only was it pretty off the wall it was AFFORDABLE with the rest of the MF range being out of reach for most pockets. MF threw everything they had at the design and the £129 asking price was a TRUE bargain considering what was under the bonnet..... a hybrid design, dedicated PSU board all under one roof..... To date it still boasts the maximum electrolytic capacitor count of any MF headphone amp..... absolutely jam packed with components and if such a thing were made by MF these days you'd be looking at £250 - £350 easily. Anyways..... back to the present day........ I had a spare couple of hours today Ian and have modded your V1 (the one you thought was a V2) and will send it back to you to compare against your V8.... thanks for the offer of the amp but I'd rather you kept it and look forward to your V1 versus V8 shootout  Give me a couple of weeks with it to fine tune things and I'll send her over to you Ian To date I have fitted ELNA Tonerex, Panasonic FC, SAMWHA VA. Evox Rifa on selected parts of the PSU board as well as UF4007 diodes..... replaced the plastic valve bases with ceramic types, fitted DIP8 sockets, OPA2132 opamps, Vintage "1967" 6N23P valves etc. etc. etc......... Sounding pretty darned good  PSU board, before and after:         |
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Post by PinkFloyd on May 1, 2009 20:53:31 GMT
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Post by PinkFloyd on May 4, 2009 13:33:48 GMT
Ian...... this little puppy has been burning in for a few days now and sounds absolutely beautiful, it will be interesting to hear what you think about the modded V1 compared to the V8.... I'm going to roll a few different opamps in and see if I can squeeze even more performance out of the V1. I reckon I can make a V1 sound better than a stock V8 but the proof of the pudding will be in the eating Mike. |
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Post by idc on May 4, 2009 17:05:50 GMT
Mike, it looks amazing and brand new! Do you have an X-CANS front panel to turn it back into what it really is?
Could you also check your inbox as I have sent you an e-mail regards payment etc, rather than discuss such on the forum.
Thanks
Ian
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Post by PinkFloyd on May 4, 2009 23:28:58 GMT
Mike, it looks amazing and brand new! Do you have an X-CANS front panel to turn it back into what it really is? Could you also check your inbox as I have sent you an e-mail regards payment etc, rather than discuss such on the forum. Thanks Ian Hi Ian, Unfortunately I don't have any X-Cans front panels.... the best I can do is remove the "X-Can v2" logo so the front panel is blank.... She is burning in nicely and I seriously think you are going to be amazed with the sound when you compare her to a V8.... the OPA2132P makes one hell of an improvement over the stock NE5532 and the vintage Russians are the icing on the cake. I'm powering her with a stock 500mA MF wallwart and am satisfied that you will hear one HELLUVA positive difference.... I'll strap a Little Pinkie on tomorrow (just for my own personal satisfaction) and see what she's really capable of I've read your e-mail but would still rather add to the "feel good" and send you this back free of charge..... if you insist on paying then you can buy a Little Pinkie All the best, Mike. The insides of your amp  |
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Post by idc on May 5, 2009 11:15:17 GMT
Mike, found this post reply after I sent a reply by e-mail. If you could remove the logo that would be great and an order has been put in for a Little Pinky for the V8. Incidentally if you have a Rock Grotto logo or sticker that reads 'Modified by Rock Grotto' stick that on instead!
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Post by skunkworks on May 5, 2009 23:32:09 GMT
Hmmmmm, I can buy a V2 for 100 euro's from a local auction site. If I send it to you Mike and then call MF will I get a V8 back aswell?  |
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Post by idc on May 6, 2009 0:01:22 GMT
Hi Skunkworks. First of all no one was more surprised as me as to the outcome to this. I am used to dealing with complaints myself. The best way to get a resolution to a complaint is to first of all gather evidence of what the problem is. Primarily, I could show I bought the amp new and it had not been anywhere else during my ownership. I researched the Sale of Goods Act and I was ready to start quoting it, but first of all I contacted MF and politely explained the problem and asked what they could do. The initial suggestion was that I could get a V2 PCB, which I accepted. Then came the lucky bit and the intervention of Antony Michaelson. Unfortunately luck does play a part when making a complaint. It helps if something crops up that attracts the management's attention. It also helps that management would have been told that I had evidence and also came over as a decent bloke, rather than a bull in a china shop.
In the end I have had a really crap time recently and I still cannot get over the kindness I have been shown. That also applies to Mike with his mods. I really enjoy the hifi world as it attracts decent people who know the pleasure of making others happy. I always try to do the same and I will so pay this forward in the future.
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Post by skunkworks on May 6, 2009 0:11:24 GMT
Thx for the nice reply but I was just joking. |
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Post by idc on May 6, 2009 15:19:57 GMT
Skunkworks, I figured with the icons you were not being serious, I just wanted to reiterate that everything that happened was above board, especially after Mike told me that there have been instances of products being sold on second hand, which are not as they appear. My modified X-CAN will not be sold. On its own I think it is a work of art, one of the coolest and best looking bits of kit ever. It will go into the spare bedroom/study for late night music and for when my brother or guests come to stay.
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Post by idc on May 20, 2009 18:53:19 GMT
Got the modded X-CAN back today. Straight away the bright blue LED and the much better fit on the headphone jack are improvements. I like the replacement of the serial number with 'Pinkie 2009' to give it authentication that it has been modded. Sound wise with my tester tracks it is closer to the V8P than the old V1 that it was. But more on that later.......
(Mike, can I use a couple of pictures from this post for a reviewon the What Hifi forum?)
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Post by PinkFloyd on May 20, 2009 19:59:30 GMT
Got the modded X-CAN back today. Straight away the bright blue LED and the much better fit on the headphone jack are improvements. I like the replacement of the serial number with 'Pinkie 2009' to give it authentication that it has been modded. Sound wise with my tester tracks it is closer to the V8P than the old V1 that it was. But more on that later....... (Mike, can I use a couple of pictures from this post for a reviewon the What Hifi forum?) Hi Ian, Glad she arrived safely and good to know it's close to the V8 in the sound department.... The caps had about 48 hours on them so expect things to "blossom" further as it burns in (remember, new caps / new valves.... all takes time to "form") Certainly, you can use pics from this thread.... fire away mate |
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Post by PinkFloyd on May 21, 2009 7:03:25 GMT
idc glad to hear you are enjoying you V2. For the last week I have been listening to mine after installing a pair of NOS RCA 6922 valves. Man, I have forgotten how nice the V2 sounds. Its best quality is how it draws you in and involves you w/ the music. Even $5,000 USD amps can not IMO do so. Enjoy it! Miguel.... Ian's "V2" is actually a "V1"..... Still sounds good though (IMO sounds BETTER than a V2) Glad you are still liking yours Miguel |
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Post by idc on May 21, 2009 9:27:54 GMT
Thats a point Mike, there are hardly any mentions of the V1 (or X-CANS) on the site or mods to them. I take it they did not sell in the same numbers. I see a few coming up on e-bay. It would be quite a market to tap into. If anyone can get an X-CANS and send it to be modded you will have quite a sound making machine on your hands for not a huge outlay.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 1, 2009 19:20:59 GMT
That's another V1 in a V2 enclosure Ian...... I sent a V2 kit to a guy, he went to fit it and, you guessed...... V1 inside. He's owned the amp from new and purchased it from an official MF dealer.
This is NOT good and clearly NOT a mistake on MF's part... they have obviously had a good few V1 boards left over and have decided to punt them out in V2 enclosures... You can't "mistakingly" fit a fckin' V1 one board into a V2 enclosure... they knew what they were doing.
I have advised the chap to contact MF and urge everyone who owns a V2 to have a look under the bonnet. Quite simply, if it has 12 capacitors on the top board and two NE5532 opamps on the bottom board then it is an X-CANS (V1)
Mike.
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Post by idc on Jun 2, 2009 19:23:46 GMT
Hi Mike,
is the can of worms starting to spill open?! I agree with what you say about not being able to mistakenly fit a V1 to a V2 enclosure. That is because Antony Michaelson said you could not make such a mistake! He blames the far eastern fabricator MF use. However we debate the 'deliberateness' or complicity or innocence of MF management, one thing that they know is that they have a real problem on their hands. Because they treated me so well, I think that MF are also the victims of a manufacturing process that occurs on the other side of the world.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 2, 2009 20:50:05 GMT
Hi Mike, is the can of worms starting to spill open?! I agree with what you say about not being able to mistakenly fit a V1 to a V2 enclosure. That is because Antony Michaelson said you could not make such a mistake! He blames the far eastern fabricator MF use. However we debate the 'deliberateness' or complicity or innocence of MF management, one thing that they know is that they have a real problem on their hands. Because they treated me so well, I think that MF are also the victims of a manufacturing process that occurs on the other side of the world. V1 and V2 were made in England, put together at their Wembley HQ.... it's only V3 and upwards that are put together in Taiwan. |
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Post by idc on Jun 8, 2009 21:15:11 GMT
That is not the impression I was given! |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Jun 10, 2009 22:14:41 GMT
That is not the impression I was given! ermmmmmmmm............. if you look at the rear panel you will see it clearly states "MADE IN ENGLAND"...... V1 and V2 were made at the Wembley HQ by UK Asians. FACT! |
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I hope you'll post your impressions of the V8 on the forum Ian.
