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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2009 16:52:15 GMT
For a little while now, I've been listening to the AT range 700, 900 and 1000.
I've never really got on with the sound of the 1000. Too harsh in the lower treble region for me. It did warm up a bit after God knows how many hours but it never really settled into something I felt comfortable with.
I loved the 700 from the start. Nice warm sound and clear treble but I have often felt that the mids were slightly recessed so that you felt as though you were listening in a heavily curtained room. The sense of 'space' is quite amazing with them and I could easily live with these. Sometimes I prefer them to the HD600 in terms of tone quality.
It was the mid response in the 700 that got me wondering about the 900.
I've hit a sweet spot for me. Very similar in sound to the 700 while looking like a 1000. The mids are more forward in the 900 while still retaining the 'feather like' sound of the 700. In some ways, I prefer the 900 to the HD600 because of the top end and they are even more open sounding imo than the 700 in terms of soundstage.
The 900 is best for my jugs. Audio Technica make some great headphones but I am a bit miffed about the 1000.
If anyone wants to make an offer, please do!! I'm sticking with my 700's and even more, the 900's.
Ian
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Post by dc on Feb 12, 2009 7:09:08 GMT
I agree, the AD900 are a superb pair of headphones.
The AD700s were my first 'real' headphone, and the AD900 were a logical choice further down the line.
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Post by dc on Feb 12, 2009 22:05:27 GMT
Nothing recently, actually the AD900 is my most recent purchase I think. That being a few months ago now...
I might pickup one of AMB's new y1 DACs cheap from a local though. We'll see.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 12, 2009 22:17:12 GMT
Strange how two seemingly identical pairs of headphones can sound totally different isn't it? I find the treble silky smooth through the range with my W-1000 and the word "harsh" doesn't normally enter the conversation when I'm extolling the virtues of the W-1000... seriously, I find it one of the most detailed (yet warm) 'phones I have listened to and certainly the most dynamic. The AD900 are an equally good 'phone (I wish I'd bought that pair when I had the chance) with, mostly, the only difference being the housing and the W-1000 using a better grade of OFC copper. I'm a great believer in "bed in" and am firmly convinced that a headphone gains "patina" with age in much the same way furniture (and everything around us) does. Everytime you handle the W-1000 you are adding patina, every time you wax them (I use beeswax / Mansion house polish) you are adding patina. The process is called patination, you can't hurry it only time / handling and usage will add patina to your 'phones.... the pad's characteristics will change (with the sweat and warmth from your ears), the properties of the wood will change through age, application of wax, varying temperatures, handlic etc.... The actual drivers properties will also change through use (as they bed in).... you can't rush any of this, experts may be able to add fake patina to paintings but no way can you add character to a pair of 'phones overnight. You can give them a damned good thrashing inside two pillows for 48 hours and that helps but true patina will only come about through daily usage over a period of time. Just where am I going with this I hear you ask? Well....... in much the same way a stradivarius takes years to become the mellow, wonderful instrument it is (Makes SWEET music) so do a pair of headphones and, in particular, a pair that has natural housings..... as the wood ages and gains patina so does the inherent tonal quality of the 'phone. I mentioned this ages ago, over on Head-Fi, with regard to the ATH W-100..... I bought a pair from "old stock" and the wooden housings on them were, for some reason, as dry as a stick.... they sounded bloody tinny and shrill, I really didn't rate them at all.... IIRC quite a few of the British Head-Fi posse bought these 'phones from the same supplier at the same time I did....... Anyways...... I decided to polish the ear cups ( you can see the W-100's in the rock grotto banner) here they are before and here they are after a good few coatings of Mansion House Polish. Oops.......... sorry, just realised I was de-railing this thread...... we've gone from AD900 onto wax polish in a blink of the eye..... My point is? (re: the wax polish) well......... ah, yes.... it adds PATINA baby!.... you are applying a new material, a new state of being to the wood.... it only follows that the SQ will change at the same time, doesn't it?....... Combined with the drivers exercising in their new home, this musical patina creates a pair of alive, constantly evolving' musical devices.... not a "constant" same old (sitting in the box doing nothing) dead as a dodo never changing type affair. Constantly evolving headphones through a process of nature and patination. That's how I like to think of my W-1000.... my ears don't lie and they didn't lie then.... a drop of wax, some time and a degree of patination have transformed these 'phones from "not bad" to so good I defend them on a forum Where the patination takes them in the future is out of my control.... it's a continual journey and there could be downs as well as ups but I want to ride the bumps with these 'phones till either I die or they do..... it's fun. I must secure a pair of AD-900 Ian (pity about the strength of the dollar at the moment) your mini review has got my juices flowing... I'm currently testing out a few regulated PSU designs with the MF V-can and using W-1000 as "ears"..... very good synergy (another time another channel)...... Would like to try the AD900 when I'm this tuned in to the music / equipment. If you're up to lending me yours for a couple of weeks give me the nod. One question I have to ask..... Have you waxed lately?
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leo
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Post by leo on Feb 13, 2009 0:18:47 GMT
I've got A900's too along with others. I find the A900's a bit bass heavy tbh, their quite fun with some music though. Its nice to have a few different flavours of cans
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2009 0:21:30 GMT
Yes. I prefer my cans with a drop or 2 of Scotch in them. ;D
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tg
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Post by tg on Feb 13, 2009 1:06:39 GMT
I would make the suggestion that wooden cups will dry out excessively in air conditioned or central heated places with low humidity. Solid timber furniture shrinks under these conditions, I would also expect this effect to be damaging to the SQ of wooden bodied instruments with the exception of woodwinds which will be constantly replenished by the moisture laden breath passing through them. Reduction of the natural moisture content of the wood would undoubtedly have an effect on the resonance and reverb qualities, in the same way that temperature differences will affect metal cups. I seem to recall reference to violins unplayed for lengthy periods losing some of their natural timbral qualities until restored to regular use.
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Post by dc on Feb 13, 2009 3:48:33 GMT
I've got A900's too along with others. I find the A900's a bit bass heavy tbh, their quite fun with some music though. Its nice to have a few different flavours of cans The ATH-A D900 and ATH-A900 are very, very different headphones.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2009 21:58:13 GMT
Strange how two seemingly identical pairs of headphones can sound totally different isn't it?
That's what I thought when I saw the 900's. There's a kind of 'clatter' in the treble region of the 1000's that I find hard to take. I've tried recording cymbal stuff and then listening on the 1000's and for me, they seem to add sound.
They're not really a bad 'phone and are very revealing but the 900 backs off a bit at the top just enough to 'relax' the sound. The 700's go back a little further so I was a bit worried about going to the 2000 in the light of how they change as you go up the line.
The Graham Slee Solo amp puts a bit of sweetness into the sound but I am wondering about another amp that may be better for low impedance headphones. (Not the Grado amp though).
One other thing that I have noticed with the 900 is that they seem more sensitive to the amp driving them. You can really hear the differences between amps using them. I haven't really noticed this to the same degree before trying the 900, so maybe the problem for me with the 1000 is the amping.
I was thinking about trying an XCan but from what I have read, quite a few people aren't so happy with V8. I can't find anywhere around that sells the thing or has one in stock to have a listen.
Ian
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tg
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Post by tg on Feb 14, 2009 8:26:32 GMT
Just so we can be sure which it is you do not like, is it the W1000, the A1000 or the AD1000 ?
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robertkd
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Post by robertkd on Feb 14, 2009 9:34:47 GMT
your right tg, the audio technica range the ATH-Axxxx are closed back units the ATH-ADxxxx are open back units with all the component variation in between then of course the ATH-Wxxxx are closed back but utilise wood in their construction I actually prefer my ATH AD1000's to my ATH AD700's (my first real headphones in a long time from the days of HD412's an 414's ) the AD700's are a very nice all rounder and work well with my iPod but the AD1000s are just that much more i guess refined or detailed in the upper mid and top end. both the AD's are very comfortable once you get the rotational position of the ear pads just right. and that's according to me and it's always a personal preference
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2009 9:51:27 GMT
Just so we can be sure which it is you do not like, is it the W1000, the A1000 or the AD1000 ? AD1000. The 900's seem to be a compromise between AD700 and AD 1000.
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tg
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Post by tg on Feb 14, 2009 11:26:32 GMT
Thank you Ian, that has cleared a little confusion for me at least. I use W1000 and could not relate to your "clatter" description at all, I listen to a deal of classical and chamber music and love them for that. I find their treble very sweet and defined, on solo trumpet and soprano almost achingly so. Their bass and mid bass might be a little coloured and warm, although I prefer to think of it as "rich and full bodied" although not lacking in definition or extension as a consequence. I use them with a Solo and also a Yamamoto HA-02 and have changed the earpads to the leather ones from the W5000 with an increase in comfort. One thought that occurs to me WRT using a Solo is that if it is an SMPS powered model it may be that grounding it might remove the "clatter" you are hearing. See references to grounding and the draining of SMPS residual current elsewhere. Actually, I must check that myself. I know that I proved it when beta testing the Novo but never got around to testing it on my "green" Solo but I did notice the other day that when using the same non mains earthed CDP to alternately the Solo and the Yamamoto that going via the Burson buffer gave greater improvement with the Solo than with the Yammy. eg CD -> buffer -> Solo sounded better (noticeably so) than direct from CD -> Solo but with the Yammy the improvement was not at all to be noticed, in fact rather the reverse. The point to note here is that the buffer is mains earthed and so earthing the Solo whereas the Yammy is completely different technology and mains earthed itself and no SMPS in circuit. ie the buffer circuit might not be the improvement I heard, it might have merely been earthing the Solo and giving the improvement. Hmmm - must investigate further - thanks for the shove - I think
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2009 12:06:41 GMT
Thanks for that tg. Funny you mentioned the amping because the ad900 seems to be very much more revealing of amps. I am a bit worried about saying this, but a Presonus HP4 seems to suit the ad900 and the ad1000 better than the Solo. It is a bit annoying because I like the Solo so much but maybe the stuff I've read elsewhere about the Solo being better with high impedance headphones is true. I'm wondering about getting a decent valve amp (or selling the 1000). I did have a Little Dot at one time but it didn't quite do it for me. It was OK but it developed faults quite quickly so it got turfed. I have been wondering for a while now, whether it is better to use the valve 'warmth' to help the 1000's a bit or just give up with them. I don't want to overblow the 1000 top end. It's just a bit too prominent for me. It's not in the very top end of the treble region, but I remember in the 70's, a mate of mine had an enormous speaker on the end of a turntable. (Forget which amp) That also had this 'clatter' that I am referring to. I think it's lower or mid-treble. The percussion really points it out. I don't like bassy cans but the giveaway is the voice. A 'hump' in the bass makes speech awful and too much up top brings in SSSSSibilance which I really don't like. I often use headphones for speech and the top end reveals itself in all its glory then on the AD1000. I'm not trying to say they're a bad headphone. They're very revealing. Just not for me and my head I suppose. I'll look into the earthing that you mention. I'll do a search. Could be the answer now I found the Presonus to be a better match. (imo) Just annoying that such a cheap, standard old headphone amp seems to work better than a classy setup in this situation. I'm now considering fully blown, decent valve amp or maybe try one of the X-Cans. I hear that the W series are mellow. I friend of mine reviewed the w5000 (?) I think it was and was loved them. His write up was really glowing and I was tempted but I don't really want closed cans and they are an expensive mistake, so I really want to hear them first. Pinkie's headphone sounds gorgeous and that may be the one that my mate reviewed. (Reddish wooden colour) They look and apparently sound gorgeous. I suspect that they have a totally different sound sig to the AD series. The treble quality is what stopped me going for the AD2000. It seems as you go up the AD series range, the treble becomes more prominent and if there is any more than the AD1000, I really wouldn't be too happy with it. (The Grado 325i is my limit!!!) From reports that I've seen, the AD2000 is way better than the AD1000 and a lot of people seem to slag it off, but imo they are a fine, revealing listen as long as you don't mind that treble. Of course, this is with my head and ears. EDIT: I've found an impedance adapter and tried it. It looks stupid because it's a mini jack type so I have a really bad leverage point but I went from a full size jack to mini, to an Oehlbach adapter to the headphone and the result is actually a slight calming effect on the Graham Slee Solo. I think the Oelbach is 120 ohms. Not sure. The effect is subtle but they feel slightly less aggressive this way, so it could be the output impedance of the amp that affects my impression of the AD1000 in particular. Maybe I do need another amp for low impedance headphones. Ian
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Post by tg on Feb 14, 2009 13:47:38 GMT
Ian, I have no experience of the AT open headphones. The W5000 is by reports an exceedingly good match to the Solo (attested by at least 2 different posters here at different times) and I do not think the 40 Ohm impedance is a problem for it. Pink at one time owned W100, a predecessor to the W1000 and now discontinued and currently owns W1000 the same as I use. I have noticed on some recordings a harshness to some vocals as if the microphone were being overdriven and this does grate on the ear, having noted this on a number of occasions I have often had to resign myself to the fact that it is the recording. That said, there are a few that I find particularly irksome in that regard and the AT's do not ease the experience, if anything they emphasise it - those recordings, since I do like them, I will listen to with the K701, which, while they do not hide the distortion, do not draw as much attention to it. Interestingly, to me at least, was one lp on which I noted this quirk on a number of tracks on several different TT's until I finally obtained a very accurate alignment protractor and set up my cartridge very carefully when the particular distortion virtually disappeared in greater resolution. In the same way, one particular CD that distracts me on several tracks with the same type of thing finally proved listenable when I had the opportunity to put it in a Wadia CDP - which at least indicated where the money went on that. I know of some others who have had similar results from using CD trimming lathes on problematic recordings - both expensive cures though. I suspect, though cannot be certain, that open headphones dissipate the bass energy more readily so that the same driver and amplifier will have a vastly differing tonal balance at a given volume level when used in both open and closed phones, eg in order to gain sufficient bass with an open phone it will be turned up more thereby emphasising the treble which is not lost as readily. I know for me the K701s (open) seem to need an amount more wellie to bring the bass to life, though that is partially in the nature of the beast too. With the W1000 which are closed, I can use lower levels and not feel anything to be missing. Thinking about that a little more, I feel the K701 to leave me feeling a little more distant from the music and more of an observer where the W1000 are a more intimate listen, drawing me into the music, if that makes any sense.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2009 14:54:31 GMT
eg in order to gain sufficient bass with an open phone it will be turned up more thereby emphasising the treble which is not lost as readily.
I think that is exactly what I'm experiencing with the AD1000 in particular.
For speech, turning them down is fine and they are ultra clear. No boom on male voice. Turn them up and sibilance becomes a problem for me. I would naturally turn them up with music slightly in order to get more presence. After reading your post, I went to my set up and had a go!!
The AD900 is slightly less 'aggressive' but the Oelbach adapter is changing the sound in a very subtle way. The AD900 almost becomes a 'heavy' can with plenty of bass. They are still better for my ears than the AD1000.
I love the soundstaging of them both. Just listened to Pocket Universe by Yello and it almost becomes an ethereal experience on the AD900's. The mellow quality and the sense of huge space really makes the album come alive and at the same time, hearing Dieter's quiet asides and speeches amongst the mix so clearly makes a whole lot more sense to the album.
Maybe the way for me to go is the W series and get used to having closed headphones. My experiences with closed type designs have not been as good as open designs. I suppose I've mostly listened to relatively cheaper headphones as far as closed designs go, but have never really liked them because of 'colourations' which become very obvious on speech.
There is something about these open AD range of headphones that is really appealing and I suspect that the 'feather like' quality of the sound has been retained in the closed designs. There also may well be, as you say, a slight warmth due to them being closed and being able to develop more bass, therefore giving that feeling of a warm sound that I don't really get with the AD1000.
Oh well, for the moment, I'll stick with the 'relatively' cheap AD900 (in comparison to those works of art you guys have!!) and see if I can get a listen somewhere to the W series.
I'd like to hear the X-Can as well to be honest.
Ian
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2009 16:43:07 GMT
Thanks Miguel.
I have been playing around with adapters and I may have found an answer.
The solo output driving impedance: 120 Ohms and since the 900 and 1000 are around 35 maybe the addition of the 120 ohm adapter is OK. (A bit high but only 35 out)
The Presonus HP4 output impedance is something like 53 ohms so that may account for why I prefer it without an adapter being necessary.
Maybe a 75 ohm would be better but there is definitely a change in the sound but it's difficult to pinpoint because the AT sound sig stays. However, the AD1000 seems to be slightly calmed in the top (clattery) region. As I mentioned before, it may be in the mid or low highs. Not right at the top. The ad900 is positively addictive. They are almost 3D.
Gawd, I'm getting fussy in my old age!!
Does anyone know the value of the UE adapter that comes with their iem's?
Ian
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2009 18:46:15 GMT
Thanks again Miguel.
It's a lot of bother to get an adaptor sent from USA to UK. It's a long time since I used a soldering iron and I'm not going to buy one just for a plug so I'll have a look around.
Shops here wonder what the heck you want one for if they actually know what they are!!
Maybe I'll start yet another cottage industry and make loads of them and sell them? Once people cotton on to the idea of fine tuning without an equaliser, you never know!!
Ian
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