When I said the USA was slightly behind, I meant with legislation, not manufacturing.
the day we buy into the EU agenda is the day I leave the United States and go f**king native on some tropical island chasing down monkeys and swinging from trees.
Legislation that profits a few while slamming the door on others is just more Elitism from the priviledged class that does and always has taken "if you don't like it too damn bad" attitude.Large scale integration is a part of that and has kept "prying eyes" out of the circuit level details while bringing an entirely new set of problems.
In the mass market consumer electronics arena there no
true engineers left only board stuffers.all the actual work has already been done by the chip makers who sell the "black boxes" that are plugged together to make a usable device.
Quick sidebar : Because so many "engineers" had no fking clue how to make a proper output stage and anti-aliasing filter it became the norm to offer DAC chips which were entirely self contained devices needing only a power source and an input interface to make the "chip" a full product.Designing "theoretical perfection" on paper has absolutely zero to do with how something sounds and "they" mostly get it wrong and why consumer grade audio gear pretty mch sucks across the board and needs "tweaking" just to get it to sound right.
I've only been going on what our component specialist at work (Tandberg Television) says, and he's been dealing with the potential problems full time for several years now. He's also a keen analogue hi-fi enthusiast.
again this is apples and oranges dude.what passes for "fine" in a television audio circuit or HT receiver circuit or integrated amp or "all in one" system,the consumer grade mass market gear,can hardly be directly compared head to head with what I consider fine audio eqiupment.
Equipment that forgoes the usual "single vendor for all parts" that mass production makes a requirement and to "best part for that particular spot in the circuit".
I am presently whipping up a Meier Audio Cross-1,a very nice design BTW,and it is a totally passive device using only two different capacitor values per channel with one common to both.
Because I try to avoid "voicing" my gear to have a single general character that colors everything it has taken me a while to come up with the best (to me anyway) combinations of resistors and capacitors and it has come down to a TOTALLY different cap for each position and two types of resistor and this in a circuit that can have worst case 6 resistors and 3 capacitors actually "in circuit" while in use.
I ended up with three different brands of capacitor and three brands of resistor and this is about as simple an audio device can get.imaging if it were more complicated how many different parts I would have to listen to in combinations to get it right !
No.Mass market goods and high quality audio do not belong in the same sentence and RoHs is aimed at the mass market "build it,sell it and when it breaks,sell them another" end of electronics with known obsolescence built in from the start :
Sidebar #2 -
My sister was shopping for a new big screen TV and after getting the bottom line price inquired as to why the service contract was so high (warrantees were once FREE but then,products actually lasted and were repairable).
The saleperson replied "because we give you a new television.They are not repairable and the replacement cost is AT cost"
Tht is RoHs bud.Built in ife span so you are always buying new.the latest and the greatest "gee whiz" new features while quality and repairability is a dim memory from the dark ages.Quality means shit.FEATURES are everything even when most are things you will never use in your lifetime
I'm not wrong. That comment was made purely from an availability standpoint. The problem is that because surface mount and "digital" is now the industry standard for electronics (and I know that is not at all good for analogue audio), the low-volume ICs are often the ones we are most interested in ("analogue" with large pin pitch), and the manufacturers consequently can't justify the expense of converting them.
correct,they just "obsolete" them so you have to look elsewhere in the p[roduct line for a semi-replacement part.I KNOW this because I personally have had to redesign products to use a new part when the old was no longer available in any quantity.
Other than a couple of industry "audio specific" parts,usually aimed at the pro arena,audio usage is of a side consequence.Because the real market is in cell phones,laptops,HT receivers and computer sound cards the new breed of parts are aimed at that manufacturer and the sad part is they are not a sonic match for what they replace.
I give it three years before the DIP pack IC goes the way of the dinosaur and the "new" big seller will be SMD/DIP adapters.again this is not progress when you take away something we already have then sell a a "better" replacement that then must have
another thing added (more $$$$$) just to get the "something" to do what it did originally without all the hassle.Did I mention we will aslo need to "buy" entirely new equipment just to do the work ?
again it comes down to more $$$$$ in the name of progress that is audibly a step backwards
The options they have are to make them compliant or discontinue them, because they normally won't run two production lines to produce both versions. The older package types like DILs will die out in favour of SMD, like you say
and it was not even choice !
I have a total problem with the "few" imposing on the many.The EU is a dictatorship using bad science to make even worse law while lying about the "why".It is my postion the exact opposite of the stated goals will be the result when the garbage starts to pile up.I don't know what the garbage situation is in europe bu
t we have hit critical mass here years ago and where it is being dumped in the dark of ight is anyone's guess.
Paying a third world country to take on a consumerism country's trash is not a stretch and history shows many examples of the "haves" crapping on the "have nots".
No WAY does the modern teenager not get his/her brand new cell phone yearly and do any think they just vaporise the old one ?
Unleaded is not a recylclable or reusable technology so use it then toss it and buy another
Do any really truly beleive this transition would be taking place by choice ? That it is a natural progresssion and would be here even without laws to enforce it ?
If the technology was as good then yes but since it is "forced" the industry is putting a happy face on it even though if you read the corporate white papers the reality is an ugly mess no one seems to know how to fix.
Buck the trend all you like, but be careful as the regulations will be ever more strictly enforced as time goes on.
the european market can flat out kiss my ass.I will sell 100% in the Americas rather than produce an inferior product with my name on it
As with most things in life, these regulations are almost certainly ill-thought-out by people who don't have much real experience in the area, but who think they are doing the right thing anyway, and definitely with insufficient industry and customer consultation
I don't buy that for a minute.When you look deeper and see who benefits and who has a free pass it looks to me more like shifting the market to large corporations and an attempt to lock up the marketplace for all time.Unfair competition is just that no matter what name is put to it and this smacks of protectionism but in this case NOT to s single country but to "companies" that have their hooks into every nation and turn out mass produced junk meant to break and be replaced if not yearly then biannually.
I can believe that the sound of components might change noticeably, and designs may have to change too to accomodate that, but I won't accept that they will become totally unworkable, and I certainly don't believe this is a conspiracy to benefit a few companies
Want to bet ? I get more corporate literature and go to more corporate siminars than the average human.Where most would read a novel or watch TV I am reading "Electronic business" or "Electronic Design Magazine" or "Electronics insider" or "EE Times" or "Power Management" or "Portable Devices" or "MASS High Tech" etc.,etc.,etc........................
I am not a conspiracy theorist and am not making things up but have been doing my homework on this subject for more time than I like to admit thinking I shouldbe ready for the changes.Changes that are unworkable without pricing myself totally out of the market OR building mass produced/outsourced to China crapola.
The rohs directive has put garbage in front of quality and if the stated goals were really what this was all about they would have DEMANDED electronics goods be built MORE relaible,tolast longer and be upgradeable/repairable so the products never hit the dump in any quantity instead of targeting one area while the trash piles up.
you add disposable electronic devices to an expaning population and emerging nations as new markets and you have all of us neck deep in garbage in twenty years with no place to put it.
This is costing the component manufacturers and larger electronics producers a fortune as well as the small companies. The punishment for non-compliance will be proportional to the size of the company, and a big company WILL be made an example of with a huge fine soon after July 1st - who is profitting from all this?
everyone that sells products in large quantities from the chip maker and capacitor supplier to the mass market electronics company.For them retooling is no different than if they came out with a new product and once the line is up and running it goes from "loss" to "break even" then on to "pure profit" with no end in sight for the "pure profit" end of it once the re-orders come in.Simple economics man.Te more you sell the more you make
It might not be "right", but there's not a lot you can do about it now except redesign, or use components that we already know sound good depsite being lead-free (eg. the Panasonic FC and FM caps).
Or stay out of the EU which I intend to do.I can not make what I want and comply so that leaves me either shut out or a cheat on the verge of financial ruin if caught.I wonder if the recent WNA closing its doors for good may just be one of the first casualties in the
small guy vs. THE MACHINE war.
I'm not trying to wind you up, Rick, honest. Good luck
Hellman,I wind MYSELF up ;D
not the calmest guy on the big blue marble and when i get on a rant it is like trying to snatch a slipper back from a "rat" dog
GRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrr................