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Post by PinkFloyd on Oct 3, 2008 10:49:13 GMT
www.musicalfidelity.com/products/vseries/vcan.html The blurb says: The V-CAN is a genuine state-of-the-art headphone amplifier. Most high quality headphones have impedance of around 30 Ohms. Almost all headphone amps have an output impedance between 50 and 100 Ohms. Because of their high output impedance they cannot drive headphones properly. Any sound they produce through the headphones is necessarily coloured, with distortion and non linear frequency response. The V-CAN is quite different. It's output impedance is 5 Ohms. This means it will drive any headphone available with ease. It will produce low distortion, ruler flat frequency response and complete linearity.
The V-CAN will be available October 2008. Question is......... what the HELL were they thinking with those graphics on the enclosure? IMO that is positively UGLY  I wonder if this will be a budget range.... it sure looks like it anyway! Here is the manual www.musicalfidelity.com/manuals/vseries/vcan_manual_1.pdf looks like they are using a 12V DC power supply with this one instead of their usual 12V AC type..... interesting 
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2008 2:38:57 GMT
I suppose you could always make up a 12V battery pack,using NiMH batteries to go with it, if you were really keen, after all many photographers use similar, but usually a lower voltage.
BTW, the basic SC HA also had an output impedance of 5 ohms. Could be interesting to try something like 4.7ohm resistors instead of the usual 33-68 ohms to see what happens with harder to drive headphones ? Obviously, the distortion would increase, but ..... ??
Alex
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rickcr42
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Post by rickcr42 on Oct 4, 2008 3:55:08 GMT
only two ways to get there,tubes with a step down transformer (tubes are a high impedance device mostly so in order to lower the Z you need to use some "iron" and that iron will have a primary Z which is what the tube sees and a secondary Z which is what the transducer sees nd it is that ratio,whatever the divisor is that will ALSO be the ratio of voltage step down and why you see high gain tubes having smll amounts of gain in a transformer coupled design.The dOWNSIDE is the high gain needed to overcome the gain reduction means you will also be increasing the stage noise and when it is a headphone amp WAY more audible thn withloudspeakers so a bitch to deign a quite amp using this topology) OR Solid state "drive" which has an inherently lower impedance but is not only not nearly as overload proof as a tube but that will actually receive and "amplify" ultrasonic frequencies (RFI) because it is really no more than a diode and what is a solid state diode used for other than AC to Dc conversion ? As the front end of a radio receiver and in fact IS the signal detector so you must use caution or you will have stray signals being amplified along with the intended signals and is in fact the "mechanism" many times that makes an amp sound "hard" or "bright" but that if filtered out would produce an amp with an entirely different sonic profile. What this animal here is ? Just covering another "nich" in the market is my thought and it is not unusual to see such practice these days where everyone wants another slice of the pie and so offer more than one "way to get there" rather than focus on making THE BEST THEY CAN and letting the market decide who survives and who does not. OR They are gearing to a "bread and butter" product to fill the space between the bottom feeders and the high end which is where most folks live anyway  |
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Post by merton on Oct 4, 2008 5:03:28 GMT
what the hell is wrong with you people? you're gettin like jude's crew...
"oh, iz ugly! ich! OMG!"
"oh, i never heard it! it must suck! LOLZ OMG!!"
for shame! FOR SHAME!
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Post by sometrolls2 on Oct 4, 2008 5:05:42 GMT
This was posted before, with a Aus $ price of $900. £450 for a thing that looks like that is mental.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2008 5:22:21 GMT
For that price you could buy 2 Novo HAs, and they would in all probability sound much better as well. SandyK |
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Post by dotnet on Oct 4, 2008 14:41:08 GMT
Who cares what it looks like? I don't. Heh, you could always rip its innards out and put them into an old X-Can tube... If it sounds good it'll find its fans. I won't be paying AU$900 for a headphone amp, though. Cheers Steffen. |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Oct 4, 2008 14:53:22 GMT
£450?? are you sure? From this pic it can be seen that the "V" series are classed as "accessories" and packaged in that clear plastic "hang 'em up on a hook and sell 'em cheap" type stuff....... From looking at the packaging and graphics I would have assumed that these products would have been more in the £100 -= £150 price range?  £450 is a helluva lot to fork out for a headphone amp and you would expect an amp costing this much to come slightly better packed wouldn't you? Merton is right, it's not cool judging a book by it's cover and I haven't.... all I said was IMO it looks pretty strange with all that comic sans text plastered over the top and it certainly does NOT equate to "this amp costs £450" to my eyes.... more of a "bang for the buck pile 'em high sell 'em cheap" type effort. Possibly a VERY nice sounding amp and it'll be great to have a listen to it..... just commenting on the looks Merton Here is the blurb on the V series (you'll note it says "ULTRA value / super performance") The V-Series is a new ultra-value super-performance series which offers incredible value for money. As a result of careful engineering, the
V-Series has state-of-the-art, no compromise circuitry housed in a nicely finished but modest package.
Design background
Most high-end components offer incredibly bad value. Why do we say this? Because, as crazy as it sounds, about four to five percent of the cost of good value high-end electronics is in the actual electronics that do the work. The other 95% of the cost is in the metalwork and other items that don’t contribute to sound production or sound quality. Basically, high-end is a lot of show and not much go for a huge cost.
Musical Fidelity has always tried to offer value for money. We feel that to offer grossly overpriced bling is an insult to customers – so we have turned the conventional cost-ratios on their head. By doing this, we are able to offer state-of-the-art performance at shockingly low prices.
The V-Series is the result of our iconoclasm. We have eliminated pointless metalwork, bling and packaging, and concentrated on performance. Typically, the V-Series has 60% to 70% of its cost in electronics. The quantity and quality of components in any of the V-Series is pretty well identical to those from high-end components costing ten times (or more) the price. The difference is that the V-Series is housed in nicely finished, economical metalwork as opposed to bloated high-end excess.
Once you take this approach, everything begins to fall into place.
PCB
You don’t need a big PCB. PCBs are purchased by the square inch. The smaller a PCB, the smaller its cost. When you analyse the space that circuitry requires, the PCBs needed seem, by high-end standards, very small. They are not small, they are just the right size. Lots and lots of money saved.
Once you have defined the size of the PCB, you have also fixed the size of the metalwork.Metalwork
Metalwork does not need to be huge or heavy. It simply has to wrap around the PCB. Because we are using small PCBs, the metalwork is dramatically reduced. Less metalwork equals less cost. In addition, Musical Fidelity has invested in tooling to ensure that the piece-part cost of metalwork is very low.
Front panels
From some points of view, high-end is only about front panels. Just look through all the brands. It is front panel city. But do front panels contribute anything to the sound or performance of any product? Hmm... But they do cost a fortune. Typically, a high-end front panel will be as much as 30% of the total cost. Ridiculous, isn’t it?
The V-Series does not have front panels. We have inputs at one end, and outputs at the other. This has a profound effect on the cost and also on the internal layout of the PCB.
Linear layout
The V-Series PCB layout is a linear flow from input to output. Conventional electronics have all the inputs and outputs on one face. Inevitably, inputs will be positioned next to outputs (and interfere with each other), signal paths will be unequal in length and capacitance, earth lines will not be necessarily symmetric and power supply routing will always be questionable.
With the V-Series linear layouts, none of these potential major problems are present. Because of this, the technical performance of all the V-Series is extraordinary. In doing our best to reduce manufacturing costs, we had to develop a whole new approach to layout. Not only did we save money – we devised circuits that deliver astonishing technical performance.
Invest in tooling to keep piece-part costs low
Musical Fidelity has invested in production tooling for the V-Series to ensure that piece-part costs are as low as possible. We have also committed to manufacturing large quantities of the V-Series, which enables us to negotiate gratifying quantity discounts that we can factor into our pricing structure. As a result of all the above, the V-Series represents true state-of-the-art performance at extremely competitive prices.
It is not rocket science, but it does require an absolute commitment to achieving the end result of incredible value for money for the audiophile. |
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Post by sometrolls2 on Oct 4, 2008 15:05:49 GMT
Current exchange rate 2.27 GBP to 1 Aus $. Unless the Aus consumers are being ripped off or the original article was wrong, then it would be £400-500. Look what happened to the XDac, started off as £120ish then £330ish and now about a grand; thier recent torroid in a box cost £300. How much can you charge for some Jamicons and claim to be offering highest grade components, I don't know but MF like to find out.
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leo
Been here a while! 
Team wtf is it?
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Post by leo on Oct 4, 2008 15:08:04 GMT
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Post by sometrolls2 on Oct 4, 2008 15:09:50 GMT
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Post by PinkFloyd on Oct 4, 2008 15:18:07 GMT
Well..... fck' me! "£100" just as I expected from the look of the thing......... £450? No way Jose! Can't wait to hear it tho..... £100 is a good price point ("keen") and maybe this amp has good potential to mod (replace the high end Jamicons with something else maybe  ) |
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Post by sometrolls2 on Oct 4, 2008 15:40:18 GMT
US price $249 store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=54169and "As a company spokesman put it, “this is a product where 90 percent of what you pay for is on the inside—not on the outside.” V-series products will start appearing in September, with new models appearing each month until the entire family is released. Eventually, offerings will include the V-CAN headphone amplifier ($249), the V-DAC high performance DAC ($379), the V-LPS phono stage ($199), the V-10D class A solid-state analog buffer (price TBD), the V-S2B single-ended-to-balanced signal transconverter (price TBD), and the V-PSU power supply unit (price TBD)." |
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Post by dotnet on Oct 4, 2008 16:49:58 GMT
Bring on the V-series 30W class-A amp!
Cheers
Steffen.
EDIT That said, the venerable A-1 and A-100 class-A amps where already very V-series like. No bling, just performance.
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Post by dotnet on Oct 4, 2008 16:59:19 GMT
They "nailed it perfectly" - it looks unsubtle, hence it must sound unsubtle  The closing comment "Listening to even delicate pieces can become a chore, and the V-CAN can’t stay the course after more than five or so minutes listening" does not gel with the 3 out of 5 star rating they give it, either.... Cheers Steffen. |
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rickcr42
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Rest in peace my good friend.
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Post by rickcr42 on Oct 4, 2008 17:08:15 GMT
or one of his spies.Remember folks,I was a moderator over there once and at that time actually tight with the administration so watch your ass fellas.We'll have no more of that "Goat-Fi" crap on MY watch |
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rickcr42
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Post by rickcr42 on Oct 4, 2008 17:11:30 GMT
would look right at home haning off a hook in the AV section of Wal-Mart |
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rickcr42
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Post by rickcr42 on Oct 4, 2008 17:19:26 GMT
....having said that.It is common practice in high end audio to spend more time on the cosmetics,how a thing looks,than they do on the "innards" which is what we should be interested inor we come way too close to the "Looks good,I bet it sounds good too" crew who no matter what is inside make their purchases based on how a thing looks while convincing themselve it sounds good. There is NO doubt in my mind that if you took the same circuit here and put in in a very expensive pretty box but TOLD NO ONE we would be reading where the "prettied up" version blows the balls off of the utility looking version and is that what we really want ? Gear overpriced just to satisfy a "look" rather than take the device on its merit as an audio "tool" ? Personally ? I don't WANT a headphone amp to be the center of my ensemble visually and it has been my opinion for some time that most should be made more compact by half AND have a larger front to back rather than side to side footprint.All i want to see is a small panel,a means to power it on and off,a means to adjust the volume and a jack to plug into.a package that sits beside and IN SUPPORT of my system not as THE system. But hey,that is just me and where I come from which is headphones as accessory and not the be all-end all of audio  |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Oct 4, 2008 17:36:57 GMT
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rickcr42
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Rest in peace my good friend.
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Post by rickcr42 on Oct 4, 2008 18:06:40 GMT
well......because they ARE dude ! |
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rickcr42
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Post by rickcr42 on Oct 4, 2008 18:09:36 GMT
A suggestion ? Reduce the size of those panel hogging knobs,move the power switch to the right side of the chassis and use a rocker instead of a toggle and reduce the size of the power "on" indicator and maybe,just maaaaaybe,you will get the "Rick Seal Of Approval" |
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rickcr42
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Rest in peace my good friend.
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Post by rickcr42 on Oct 4, 2008 18:24:40 GMT
....and another thing ( ).The only way to keep the power supply in the same box as the audio circuit and do it RIGHT is to not cramp everything together into a teeny tiny box which leaves only two (as i see it) options open : 1-Wide sum bitch of a chassis 2-Small "frontal" but long in front to back depth why this is important (at east to me ) is if the active circuits are vacuum tube powered and use "hum sensitive" DHTs or DC Chokes in the power supply having the B+ and Heater supply outside the main box is a plus and the reason it works is overall MASS of most tube based amps. switch this over to solid state and without the "mass" of a power transformer inside the box you end up with a very unstable,tippy,ready to be pulled off the shelf when you run out of headphone cord too lightweight by far accident waiting to happen so you either place the PSU to the rear of a "longish" chassis,away from the front end gain circuitry,or if you take it to a two box solution you need to add some internal MASS to compensate for the weight loss and this while easy enough to do is something you hardly ever see done or worse,mentioned as a potential problem. Me ? Had enough so called "accidents" to cover ten lifetimes until i realised what was going on (never said I was smart,just tenacious and made the correction in all future builds. BTW-if you "add mass" to the chassis internally (or if you must externally) about the least painful though butt ugly "quick and dirty" method would be to use a couple of "penny" rolls (fill in whatever your lowest denomination coins are) placed wherever they will fit.If the mass is to be added outside the box obviously no one would go this route it looking friggin' way too ghetto but if you can procure a brass ingot or two you can place them on top of the amp and it looks not quite bad...not real good unless one of those aftermarket "made for audio" brass weights but not tooo bad |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2008 21:17:51 GMT
Re Reply#9 from Mike Did anyone else think, even for just a moment,when reading the MF blurb, that Graham Slee is either "moonlighting" as a copy writer, or designer, for Musical Fidelity ? P.S. Sorry, Graham, all in good fun! Alex |
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Post by derekrumble on Oct 8, 2008 9:54:34 GMT
I thought I had already started a thread on this! Cheek Derek |
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Post by jonp on Oct 22, 2008 3:25:53 GMT
I am stunned. Absolutely stunned. I wouldn't even buy it for $150 after reading the What Hi Fi review (I do actually trust that magazine, because they bag stuff regularly, regardless of who advertises in the magazine - plus in the past when I have auditioned stuff they have either praised or bagged, I agree with them). Anyway, I can't believe the price - surely this has to be a mistake. Even the XCan V8 is (I think) $900 AUD, but even that is too expensive imho. I guess I am lucky I bought my XCan V3 when the prices were still vaguely sensible. |
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I wonder if this will be a budget range.... it sure looks like it anyway! Here is the manual www.musicalfidelity.com/manuals/vseries/vcan_manual_1.pdf looks like they are using a 12V DC power supply with this one instead of their usual 12V AC type..... interesting 
)
