bi-amping...easy or not?????????

[colin1958]

hi,has anyone had or still using a bi-amped system?what are the main benefits?is it easy to set up?is it best to use the same make of equipment?any info welcomed......cheers

[Sol]

Yup .. I have a bi-amp set up ...

Roksan M-series inetgrated and power amp .. power amp is currently running tweatters and the integrated the mid and bass. I had it the other way around but I'm currently trying to decide which way aorund I prefer it.

You have the cost of the second amp, the additional speaker cable.

The integrated and power are linked with the power as a slave to the integrated .. and it's definately better in the impact stakes. There's an extra dynamic quality which is more pronoucned at a micro level ... while there may be gains in the macro dynamic level .. its stuff like the sudden cymbol crashes thats that really stand out.

I suspect the additonal speaker cable run also helps ... but I definately prefer the biamp set up. I started with bi-wiring .. but this was more icing than the biamping cake!

[Deleted]

If you have very high quality speakers and a recent high quality power amplifier, the results may not be worthwhile. Biamping isn;t used as much these days for these main reasons.To do the job properly, you also need to use suitable test equipment to check sound pressure levels. There is also software available to assist. What you REALLY need however, is someone who is very familiar with the sound of your system to sit there with you , and have a good listening session with varied types of material. After you have completed your biamping to your satisfaction, and NOT before, invite your friend around for another listening session.
Donot be offended if he suggests (if he is truthful) that it sounded better originally. All the fiddling makes you lose track of how your system sounded previously.Even very experienced hobbyists can fall into this trap. What now sounds good to you may no longerbe anywhere near acccurate, and there will almost certainly be tradeoffs elsewhere, unless you use test equipment such as a Bruel and Kjaer SPL meter, or better.
SandyK

[colin1958]

many thanks for your input guys much appreciated.Sandyk,when you say high quality speakers i can only tell you what i have,B&W CDM 1NT not terribly expensive;& QUAD 909 power amp [approx £900 new],sorry should have said speakers were approx £700 new.there is no way i could use sound pressure level equipment so i would have to just rely on my own hearing.anymore advice would be well received....cheers

[bullpup]

I have used bi-amping on a number of occasions and while I feel the benefits are there they are not necessarily dramatic.

In my experience the money spend on acquiring a suitable second amplifier can usually be spent with better or should that be more obvious effect elsewhere.

In any case I would be very inclined to tweak speaker positioning and room acoustics before spending the money on a second amplifier or indeed any other upgrades.

Unfortunately this tends to be "domestically unacceptable" including positioning the speakers 3 feet from the back wall with a concrete slab underneath!

This is probably why so many of us revert/turn to Headphones...

[Deleted]

Colin
In the absence of test equipment , the best way is the listening test method. But your friend must not have heard it since the original session. Also, do not say anything about what you think sounds better, before he/she is able to come to their own conclusions. More than one listener before and after is even better.
Bullpup
I agree with you. My speakers should also be about 3 feet from the back wall for best and most accurate low end, but you can't always do that, can you ?
Room acoustics can make or break, the sound from a top notch system.
SandyK

[serverbaboon]

I have been biamping for a few years, it made a difference to my setup.

Part of the reason for me was because my Shearnaudio 2 Reference amp was best optimised for 6-8 ohm speakers not the 4 ohm Audio Physics I had. To make driving the speakers easier it was recommended biamping with the phase 3 amp. It worked a treat for me amps less stressed, sound more 'open' if I dare use reviewer speak.

A lot of it also depends on the speakers and you should see if you can try it out, perhaps a cheap way of testing is to try bi-wiring your speakers, if this makes a difference then bi-amping 'should' give you this and more.

[landychris]

you also need to stick with the same manufacturer for the 'tone' of the amps need to be the same plus the gain must be the same otherwise the treble and bass will be mis-matched at different volumes.

I have tried it with rotel amps, did make a difference, can't remember if it was good or bad as it was a good few years ago, but more recently i tried it on the upgrade route of my cyrus kit, it did work, but i prefered the monoblock setup (the poweramps were switchable) - forgot, i did run it properly in bi-amp when i had an integrated cyrus amp and that worked too, that was on B&W CDM7SE's...

[landychris]

sol said:

I suspect the additonal speaker cable run also helps ...

it did for me, on a recent testing session, i played around with bi-wiring, bi-amping etc (a mate was trying to work out how much he would have to spend to get the sort of sound he wanted) and the addition of the second run of cable (QED Genesis) had the sort of effect of going from an integrated to pre & monoblocks! even i was quite shocked and it was my kit!!

[Deleted]

"you also need to stick with the same manufacturer for the 'tone' of the amps need to be the same"
A friend of mine tried a big Mosfet PA for the low end , and a Bipolar amp for the rest. Due to the "warmth" of the Mosfet amplifier, it didn't sound quite right .
SandyK

[jluecking]

This is my first post, I feel very comfortable in this forum with all these nice people.

I have very big DIY speakers built in 1986. I redesigned them with the help of an expert last year. Out of a 5 way system we made a 3 + 1 system. Deactivated the ribbon tweeter, did not filter the bottom end of the 21 cm bass and ran the 33 cm woofer like a sub woofer. Experimenting with different cables I then added another terminal just for the woofer. Before the redesign I used an AVM preamplifier and two AVM mono blocks. I then switched to an Onkyo AVR which, when it came to musical qualities, sounded better. The mono blocks were stronger in the bass reproduction.

I drove the 3 way full range system from the AVR and the woofers from the mono blocks then. In fact the AVR's sound had been restricted by the power consuming woofers before, after the setup change I did not recognize my loudspeakers anymore, they sounded so alive.

I ordered the best loudspeaker cable I could get hold off (Neotech NS-1952 www.mwaudio.de/pd2068335327.htm?categoryId=156) and had average Oehlbach for the woofers. The Neotech were very precise and also have a lot of strength at the bottom end, the Oehlbach cable (Rattlesnake 6) sounded too soft, the sound was missing integrity. I went through the sacrifice to order another pair of Neotech and after this I was satisfied.

Another tweak was the level of adjustment of the woofer part. I have put the preamplifier between the AVR and the mono blocks to adjust the level and was oscillating at a range of +1 and -1 dB, sometimes in half a dB steps. Measuring gave me a rough idea, but I needed my ears and about two months of experimenting to find the final adjustment position which was exactly in the middle.

In fact a friend of mine, who is very demanding when it comes to HiFi, was deeply impressed with the setup. But I have to admit, only after the very end of my setup (The bass probably was a bit higher than it should be ).

Joachim

[rowuk]

I played with biamping for many years (with an electronic crossover too).
When you are using a well thought out design (as I would assume from B&W) the complete system is matched. Different amps will have different "tonality" and that will cause a mismatch in sound. Using 2 of the same amp offers no advantage except perhaps at VERY high volumes.
With an electronic crossover you can play god by changing crossover slopes and frequencies. Success there requires VERY good ears teamed up with experience and measuring equipment.
In short, for an extremely high end system where money is of little object, it could be of use. Below that-why not spend the money on music instead?

[colin1958]

8-)MANY THANKS ROWUK,EXCELLENT ANSWER MY FRIEND,I WILL DO JUST THAT.SINCE ADDING THE PINKIE V3i TO MY SYSTEM MUSIC IS SO MUCH MORE ALIVE & GENUINLY TOE TAPPING GREAT THAT ALL THOUGHTS OF BI-AMPING HAVE GONE STRAIGHT OUT THE WINDOW.
CHEERS

[Deleted]

Rowuk
Spot on. Even the most experienced hobbyists sometimes don't get it quite right.
Measuring equipment is essential to get it right.
I like your last line !
SandyK