USB SPDIF/I2S converter

[xerxes]

I just bought one of these: diyparadise.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=38. For £30.00 / $55.00USD delivered I don't think I can go far wrong. Watch this space for pictures and a review when it turns up and I've put it together. ;D

[rickcr42]

part of a new DAC ? Otherwise you won't have much use for the I2S feature there being only a handful of devices having this input (plus not a good long distance feed method ).Can't beat the price with a sick though considering what 50 smackers buys these days

[xerxes]

part of a new DAC ?

No, I will use the SPDIF output into my existing Monica 2 DAC.

This is just so that I can try out the PC, WAV file, USB thing relatively cheaply to see how it sounds. I'm still waiting to see what TentLabs come up with, with regard to the USB/SPDIF input module for their DIY CD player.

[xerxes]

I have the USB -> SPDIF converter up and running - boy soldering SMD devices is fiddly. The teeny tiny resistors and capacitors are about 2mm x 1mm x 0.5mm in size and would blow away if you sneezed. At first I tried using a magnifying glass, but this doesn't really help as it screws up your depth perception and you keep missing the components with the tweezers.

I have some EAC copied WAV files playing through Winamp/ASIO4ALL -> USB -> SPDIF -> Monica2 DAC -> Pimeta -> HD650s, sounds pretty good to me.

I'll take some pictures later so you can see my latest efforts.

[rickcr42]

there is also an actual Winamp ASIO plug

otachan.com/out_asio(dll).html

you might want to compare the two to see which you prefer

[xerxes]

there is also an actual Winamp ASIO plug

Goddit.

[rickcr42]

cool

for those that don't a better link

otachan.com/

[Sol]

Isn't the rpoblem with this taht you need to run an SPDif from your new USB card to your DAC, and then an interconnect from your DAC to your amp .. which means that your computer (and all the fan noise / RF interference) is right next to your listening station? Headphoneswill help .. but hardly ideal.

Does the card act as another line out? i.e. can you configure the sound out through that for games?

What about a soundcard in this applictaion (I know Rick doesn't like them, but the Audigy seems to get reaosnable SQ reviews)

If you only want t oserve up music, surely better to have your files served wirelessly or via cat5 to Squeezebox well away form the source of the noise. (Or build a quite PC to have next to your HiFi - teh shuttle looks good)

[Sol]

Isn't the problem with this that you need to run an SPDif from your new USB card to your DAC, and then an interconnect from your DAC to your amp .. which means that your computer (and all the fan noise / RF interference) is right next to your listening station? Headphones will help .. but hardly ideal.

Does the card act as another line out? i.e. can you configure the sound out through that for games?

What about a soundcard in this applictaion (I know Rick doesn't like them, but the Audigy seems to get reaosnable SQ reviews)

If you only want t oserve up music, surely better to have your files served wirelessly or via cat5 to Squeezebox well away form the source of the noise. (Or build a quite PC to have next to your HiFi - the shuttle looks good)

[xerxes]

Isn't the rpoblem with this taht you need to run an SPDif from your new USB card to your DAC

There is still a SPDIF connector from the USB -> SPDIF card to the DAC, but this was just a reasonably cheap way of trying out USB sound. I already had a DAC with SPDIF input and this will allow me to compare a PC stored WAV file to my CD player for relatively little money. I already know the Monica 2 DAC comes very close to my CD player in terms of sound quality. I think the CD player is better, but only just and given the price difference between my CD player and the Monica 2 DAC, that's quite remarkable. If the USB -> DAC comes just as close, it might be worth looking at more sophisticated USB DACs.

[PinkFloyd]

This is all double Dutch to me and considering I will NEVER listen to music via a computer pretty much not worth reading (AFAIAC)... . I was discussing this with Sol the other night and he couldn't believe it when I told him I didn't have "one" music file on my computer.... I don't even have a soundcard. Way too much hassle / stress with all this so called "making life easier" technology, surely it's a lot easier to slot a CD into a CD player and hit play? or cue an LP up and drop the tonearm onto the groove...... seems to me there are way too many variables associated with computer as source listening and FAR from straightforward.

I want a simple life and really don't need the hassle of an all singing all dancing mobile phone "with" video and integral camera or little devices that "dock" with my computer.... I don't care what anyone says this all amounts to STRESS with all these different formats and constant chopping and changing / compatibility issues.... do you guys really lead the "lifestyle" (I HATE that word) that the ad man says you should? Do you really need "music on the move"? do you really need to be contactable 24/7? do you really need all this hassle? What the hell ever happened to "speaking to other people" on your journey to work?...... no wonder social skills have gone tits up with everyone listening to shite downloads and ignoring each other.

Save yourselves a lot of hassle and "free up" some time for interacting with other human beings.... stick a CD into the tray and hit "PLAY" or cue an LP up and drop the needle into the groove.......... all this flac / acc / ddd / vd / cd1879 / xx3TrY/ W.A.N.K/ tr11294947hhfh XP / etc. etc. etc. BULLSHIT STRESS will only give you a heart attack in the long run trying to keep up with it.

Relax! sit down, tell the wife to fck' off and do some knitting (or cook a dinner) and listen to some proper sounds..... It's better not to listen at all than to listen "on the move" you need to be in the right frame of mind and ready to receive...... travelling to work plugged up is stress on a plate.... 100 people on a train all ignoring each other pretending to listen to music...... This is not how it's supposed to be people! Rip those stupid IEM out of your ears and say "hello", "good morning" to your fellow passenger.......... JESUS!!!

[xerxes]

I'm interested in lossless music storage for several reasons:

1. There are some suggestions that EAC Ripped music via USB to a DAC sounds as good or better than some very costly CD transports.

2. I like the idea of being able to access my entire music collection from one place via a user friendly interface, like WinAmp, play random tracks, make up playlists etc.

3. If reason 1 proves to be true, I like the idea of keeping all my CDs out of site, purely as backup, and freeing up some shelf space.

[rickcr42]

1. There are some suggestions that EAC Ripped music via USB to a DAC sounds as good or better than some very costly CD transports.

They do.You would have to spend a substantial amount of loot to get the same amount of quality

[dc]

does this apply for non-usb devices, such as PCI transports?

[xerxes]

does this apply for non-usb devices, such as PCI transports?

Do you mean PCI sound cards, perhaps with a SPDIF output?

If you do then the general consensus seems to be that while some internal PC sound cards can sound very good, they are hampered by the noisy environment, i.e. unshielded inside a PC with noisy switch mode power supplies. With most high quality audio devices a great deal of effort is put into a good, clean power supply section able to supply noise free DC power with sufficient current. With a PCI card, your relying on the PCs power bus system fed by a noisy switch mode power supply.

The amount of noise generated by a PC will vary. I live in an area where the FM radio signal is quite weak, but I can pick up most of the major FM radio stations. However, when I switch on my PC, all I get is static, so my PC obviously generates sufficient RFI to upset reception of the weak FM signal.

Using a USB sound card allows you to remove the audio electronics from the noisy PC interior. In addition the audio electronics can be powered from a better, dedicated power supply.

[xerxes]

Some pictures of the completed USB -> SPDIF board:

The "big stuff" side:



The SMD side:



The board can also be configured of I2S output by jumbering R16 instead of R12.

Here you can see the end of a ball point pen for scale:

[xerxes]

In a box:

[Deleted]

Guys
It may be a good idea to store your most treasured CDs on your hard drive using EAC. But don't compress them using FLAC or any other so called "lossless" method. If you have ever downloaded any music compressed this way, and then uncompressed it again, it doesn't sound as good as your copy of the same CD when played through a decent system.Unlike Rick, I find that the latest more expensive soundcards such as the Creative X-FI series are extremely good , and PC system noise is not a problem. The X-FI Xtreme music will play
DVD-A, and the more upmarket X-FI models will even play SACD. Just connect analogue out to a high quality headphone amplifier.
I'm 100% with Mike about listening properly on the main sytem and keeping the bloody PCs out of the lounge room. HAS ANYONE EVER TRIED A SPDIF EXTENDER between the PC's Soundcard and the DAC in the lounge room through a coax cable ? To my way of thinking
this should be preferable to a "dinky toy" USB DAC, no matter how novel the concept may be.
There is no way in the world that a cheap USB DAC will come close in quality to a high quality stand alone DAC, which may even upsample to 192 KHZ 24 Bits. Why compromise on your listening enjoyment ? Sit back in your favourite chair, with the lights dimmed and relax with the best quality sound your system is capable of. (perhaps with some of your favourite beverage too?)
SandyK

[FauDrei]

Don't quite agree with certain points...

It may be a good idea to store your most treasured CDs on your hard drive using EAC. But don't compress them using FLAC or any other so called "lossless" method. If you have ever downloaded any music compressed this way, and then uncompressed it again, it doesn't sound as good as your copy of the same CD when played through a decent system.

The music information bits feeded from CD transport and from lossless decoder (any kind) should be the same (or more probably in favour of the "lossless transport" than vice versa).

USB is just a interface part of a DAC and as such can be implemented badly or properly (the same goes for SPDIF, TOSLINK/optical and BNC DAC interfaces). If implemented properly there should be no disadvantages for USB interface in comparison to SPDIF, TOSLINK & BNC (direct USB to I2S conversion, I2S is the "format" that you feed to the pins of the DAC chip).

If we agree on that then it all goes down to the DAC quality (and the quality of inputs of the same DAC). So...

If you have in your system an "UberDAC" with proper SPDIF and proper USB input you should (at least in my opinion) have the same music quality when playing your favourite CD from your "UberCD" transport connected via SPDIF and when playing properly ripped and properly FLAC-ed, WavPack-ed, APE-ed, TAK-ed... contents of the same favourite CD from your preferred software player (bypassing possible and undesired OS DSP-ing) on your laptop and feeded through USB to the same "UberDAC".

There is no way in the world that a cheap USB DAC will come close in quality to a high quality stand alone DAC, which may even upsample to 192 KHZ 24 Bits.

Of course that your "UberCD" -> SPDIF -> "UberDAC" combo will smoke the lossless version of your music if you play it through DACs of inferior quality: "cheap USB DACs", all various kinds of PC audio cards, especially internal ones... X-Fi included.

I just think that USB should not be underestimated as interface option in ultimate standalone "UberDACs".

Unlike Rick, I find that the latest more expensive soundcards such as the Creative X-FI series are extremely good , and PC system noise is not a problem. The X-FI Xtreme music will play DVD-A, and the more upmarket X-FI models will even play SACD. Just connect analogue out to a high quality headphone amplifier.

I do agree with you that latest audio cards are really good, but I also agree with Rick that standalone "UberDAC" will always be the best solution no matter whether we will have X-Fi VII mk3 available or not (that is if X-Fi VII mk3 will not be an external "UberDAC" in disguise).

I'm 100% with Mike about listening properly on the main sytem and keeping the bloody PCs out of the lounge room.

As for the "no PCs in living room" policy...

I am searching for a living room "UberDEVICE" that would wirelessly fetch lossless music from a 500 Gb external USB disk connected to my wireless router, decompress it and feed it to the "UberDAC" (USB, SPDIF...). "UberDEVICE" should be operated by a remote to browse my lossless library on a wall mounted LCD TV...

Sci-Fi? Don't think so... There are several devices already available that can handle most requirements from my list...

...but for time being decoding various lossless formats is still hard to find feature in commercially available devices and library handling and browsing software on some promising devices is still slow, clumsy and lacking fancy/useful features we are used to on our PC operated libraries... (a small quiet living room media PC with sophisticated universal remote control and/or touchscreen display would still cover it best at the moment, but we do not want them in our living room, do we?)

Why compromise on your listening enjoyment ? Sit back in your favourite chair, with the lights dimmed and relax with the best quality sound your system is capable of. (perhaps with some of your favourite beverage too?)

...and I foresee this is NOT going to change any time soon.

But in relatively near future most of us WILL have media "UberDEVICES" of such or similar kind in our living rooms (with the possibility to purchase & download the last Madonna's hit single integrated, of course).

Just my 22 cents...

V3

[Deleted]

FauDrei
Sorry to disagree with you, but if an EAC file is made from a CD and FLAC or other "lossless" compression methods are used, and then the result is burned to CD, the original CD sounds better when played on a very high quality system, particularly, when fed into an oversampling
DAC.Perhaps your system hasn't high enough resolution ?
Some experts claim , that despite the 44.1KHZ CD sampling rate, there appears to be left some residual information which is restored to a certain extent ( on some CDs) when oversampled and bit rate depth increased from 16 to 24 bits. Some DACs oversample to 192KHZ at 24 bits. FLAC and others, when used at their MAXIMUM quality settings, may be a little better. But how many people do that?
Regarding the X-FI, no it's not perfect, and like most commercial gear uses very mediocre opamps in the analogue section . There is an excellent thread on upgrading the X-DAC and many other similar soundcards with the LM4562 soic, plus a few other improvements.
BUT WHERE THE HELL CAN YOU PURCHASE LM4562 RETAIL? So far all the LM4562 article writers seem to have used sample ICs. I WANT SOME LM4562s !!!!
Perhaps Mike, when he comes out of his "skint" phase might stock them?
Have a look at
www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=229350
SandyK

[Deleted]

X-DAC on the brain ! I meant upgrading the X-Fi soundcard. They have a decent photo too.
I suppose a OPA2134 (SOIC) would be almost as good in that application ?
SandyK

[Spirit]

@sandyk

LM4562s are readily available at digi-key...

I don't recall if they do international shipping, and if so, what it's like, but I have an intermediary in the States who has forwarded stuff on to me before (LM4562s for my X-Meridian).

I'll be putting in an order for parts for my X-150 in the next couple of weeks, so if you wanted a few I could whack them on too.

opa2134 has been used as well, (moreso in the X-Meridian from what I've read as it comes with dip sockets ), though the general consensus is the 2227 is the best of the 'affordable' BB opamps.

[Deleted]

I got LM4562 soics and dip8s from Digikey a while back. the only catch was that they only had DIP8 in stock, so they sent those. The next day, the others arrived in stock. So I got 2 deliveries in 2 days. The worst part was 2 lots of P&P !
sandyK