Squeezebox, flac and wav files

[Deleted]

Today a friend brought along his Squeezebox. A compilation CD from .wav files of our usual test disc, was burned at 4 x speed to a TDK Gold CD-R. The new CD was then ripped using EAC, and input to the squeezebox. We compared the Pioneer DV-667A player via SPDIF into the MF X-DAC V3, with the Squeezebox's stored flac and wav files into the X-DAC V3. The Squeezebox had a much less dynamic sound, and a much poorer soundstage on flac and wav.The flac version was not as "sweet sounding" on voice, and the accompaniment was more compressed sounding. The track used was "Norah Jones-Nightingale"
My friend will be building a 5V regulated (analogue) supply to see if the 5V switchmode supply contributed to the poor results.


SandyK

[Sol]

Swopping to regulated supply of at least 5V 1.5 amps made a big difference in dynamics and bass extension on my SB3.

[Sol]

Should of said I aslo run both a Marantz CD63 KI with some mods through a X-DAC V3, and the SB3 through the X-DAC V3 also.

I've not done back to back tests recently .. but found little difference at the time ... perhaps I should have another go.

[Deleted]

Sol
I am pretty sure that the little switchmode supply was 5V @1.5A
The tests were before the Bursons weren't they ?
My friend was staggered by the difference in .wav file playback between the SB and DVD player.He had been so proud of his pair of "miniature Transporters"
Sandyk

[Sol]

Yup switchmode is 5V 1.5a .. which is why I said minimum for a regulated supply should be that. I think mine is now a 5V 2a ... Wellborne Labs kit ... looks nice, works well ... though not the cheapest kit - though I enjoyed putting it together.

I've heard improvements can be made with the digital out on the SB3 also .. though I've not gone so far as to check up on what is being offered.

[Deleted]

Sol
Are you sure you aren't as old as Nigel's oak tree ? Jeez, that was well put.
SandyK

[leo]

I've done a fair bit to my SB3, a better external supply helps but you've still got that noisey switcher inside.

I've separated the supplys and feeding the circuits better regulation, removed parts of the circuit I don't use like the headphone amp etc, changed the decoupling caps to better types, removed some parts like the inductors etc and fitted a pulse transformer on the output for the spdif .
Feed the dac and CPLD direct from a lower jitter clock, what I want to try later is feed the new dac direct from i2s, just need a better more suitable case

You can get more out of the SB3's internal dac and analogue output but I mainly use mine to feed the external diy dacs

[pagan]

Jun 29, 2007 12:09:41 GMT leo said:

I've done a fair bit to my SB3, a better external supply helps but you've still got that noisey switcher inside.

I've separated the supplys and feeding the circuits better regulation, removed parts of the circuit I don't use like the headphone amp etc, changed the decoupling caps to better types, removed some parts like the inductors etc and fitted a pulse transformer on the output for the spdif .
Feed the dac and CPLD direct from a lower jitter clock, what I want to try later is feed the new dac direct from i2s, just need a better more suitable case

You can get more out of the SB3's internal dac and analogue output but I mainly use mine to feed the external diy dacs

Leo
Something like this?
forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=191045&highlight=pico#post191045

There is also something called "pace-car".

I've just been info searching for the last few days for the sqeezebox.
things I noticed,
Switchmode psu standard, supplies +5v.
+5vdc supplies everything in the squeezebox, from +3v to +5v digital circuits to +9vdc analogue and +14vdv display.
There are also voltage multipliers in the too.

The sqeezebox does seem like a good way of using a pc as a transport.
Using digital out, either, spdif via a pulse transformer, or better still i2s.

I think the i2s is left justified type being feed into the dac?

[Deleted]

The sqeezebox does seem like a good way of using a pc as a transport.

Allan
Yahoo Serious ?

Remember Geoff who was at a couple of listening sessions ? He has 2 of them, now fully modded PSUs etc.
Still way behind the modded X-DAC V3. Still, he likes them.
Alex

[pagan]

Jan 26, 2009 2:34:18 GMT @sandyk said:

The sqeezebox does seem like a good way of using a pc as a transport.

Allan
Yahoo Serious ?
Alex

Yep

"now fully modded PSUs"
But what mods has Geoff done? Just the external psu?
"Still way behind the modded X-DAC V3"
Yeh, but we all need a benchmark

[rickcr42]

Seems many miss the point of the Squeezebox which is NOT as a soundcard or DAC replacement though it can be used as such if your current setup truly sucks but for Net Audio which is getting the music from POINT-A to POINT-B,POINT-C,POINT-D,Etc. which EACH "station" having the ability to play whatever song is on the main hard drive exclusive to what any other station is playing which means in effect you hve your very own "zoned" music server which means the LR system can be playing classic rock while the in the kitchen old school rap while in the bathroom soothing sounds to get things moving etc

That the sound my not be on a par with a good CD Player or upgrade external DAc is meaningless since all you need to do is use an external DAc at each substation if that is important to you or not if you just need background music,music AT LEAST on a par with Pandora or Rhapsody which BTW would still need a squeezebox if you want to distribute it around your office or abode.

You want higher quality ?

Well for more loot look to the Olive "Opus #4" for a stand alone solution or the "Melody #2" for a PC based server with substations solution,also which bTW you can use with an external DAC of your choice making the options in where to make your upgrades



can add multiroom capability to an iPod

www.olive.us/products/melody2_connectivity.html

plus unlike the squeezebox uses a more "universal" network protocol.

Not that the Squeezebox is not a good choice and especially so if it has a linear power supply,is reclocked and an external DAC is used for TRUE high quality digital but is another viable choice

[leo]

I missed the latest posts on here.

Once you take a SB3 or SB Duet Reciever to pieces its easy to see why these don't sound good as they are, like most things cheap are filled with compromises

You can use the best external psu in the world, it isn't going to cure the internal SMPS's inside the Squeezebox polluting the circuitry with noise, the SB3 is even worse as its got the display in there which is noisy as hell.

The main XO and SPDIF BOTH share a single buffer chip, this is not good!

The simple spdif circuitry is poor but obviously cheap, try looking at it on a scope

Yes, it takes time and effort to sort these things out but once done the performance is streets ahead of the standard unit, if you can't be arsed to sort out the problems then my advice is if you want good performance (instead of just convenience) go buy something else

[Deleted]

You can use the best external psu in the world, it isn't going to cure the internal SMPS's inside the Squeezebox polluting the circuitry with noise, the SB3 is even worse as its got the display in there which is noisy as hell.

Having looked at, and helped a friend to make some PSU improvements with his 2 SBS, I would have to agree with Leo that it is severely compromised. It can be improved as Leo has said, but it would take a lot of work to bring it up to top quality performance. It comes down to the question: Is it worth pursuing,or should I get something better to start with ?

SandyK

[leo]

Its easy finding something that sounds better to start with, the main question is there anything that offers the same usabillity as the SB?

BTW thats not a dig, I admit only reason I got the SB Duet was for its convenience in use, even the missus can use it ;D

Going totally off the SB subject, I'm still looking at different sound cards trying to find the best way to supply the Sabre with 24/192k, maybe something like this www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Audiophile192.html

[insomniac]

How about the Sonos Zone player?


These seem to get good reviews and offer great expansion possibilities. Could get a bit expensive though depending on your requirements.
Even if the boxy looking designs aren't as sleek as the Squeezebox, just think of all that spare room under the bonnet for modding

www.sonos.com/Default.aspx?lang=uk&rdr=true&LangType=2057

[leo]

Never tried one of those tbh, looks interesting though.

Could do with finding more detail on the innards just to see what potential it has

[insomniac]

Would also like to see some innards pr0n.

There's a good review of it here:

www.trustedreviews.com/multimedia/review/2008/08/11/Sonos-BU150-Wireless-Digital-Music-System/p1

The reviewer also compares it to the previous version.

[pagan]

Leo
It might be a similar technique for conversion from network protocol to spdif as the SB...?

Anyone found any inside pics or info?

[Sol]

SO I don't sue the analogue section of the SB3, just digital out feeding my DAC .. I assume Leo's points still mostly apply.

I'll be honest, still think at 200 quid it's a great toy.

Analogue Out CD63KI with mods doesn't compare to
SB3 with PSU through modded x-DAC v3 and PSU

and CD63KI with mods through X-DACv3 and PSU sounds only marginally better than SB3 with PSU through X-DAC v3 and PSU - though it is better. I can, in most situations, put up with the slight difference for the convenience.

BTW .. anyone know why my SB3 has suddenly stopped playing 24/96 .... I have recently upgraded my soundcard, but can't see how that could have altered things ... but the squeezecenter server recently upgraded - and I assume it's that, but cannot find any evidence supporting it's the squeezecentre!!

BTW Leo ... there's an app on the iphone which does everything the duet thingy does. Only obviously it's cheap as chips (5 quid IIRC)

[Deleted]

I'll be honest, still think at 200 quid it's a great toy.

Sol
Yes it is, and my friend Geoff who has 2 of them thinks so too. However, it can be quite a bit better, as Leo has already said.
Alex

[Sol]

It can be better I'm sure, to those who have the know how ... to us electronics numpties, it cannot be improved - well unless nice men who can improve them offer there wonderful services.;o)

Jeesh I failed to spot hole in a cap which Leo spotted in two secs flat bless him - one of these days I'll be able to repay his kindness for that one.

The big problem with being a numpty is that you are so low down the pecking order you can only paint by numbers (so to speak), being completely oblivious to what you are doing. However, this blind following has it's benefits. I reckon I'm well up the food chain for the money I've spent!

That said .. there's a few things I need to do and I fail at the first hurdle .. I'm so bad I even fail in order items for DIY .. e.g. I struggle with the nomenclature even - so the size & type of cap or resistor can completely flumax me!

Anyhow ... while the upgrade demons gnaw at my wallet occasionally I reckon the next thing to do in my system is play with the Rocksan integrated and power amps. If only I could work out what to do .. and then have the guts to do it!

Actually - forgive my rambling - I really ought to get that X-CAN up to Mike again! It lasted all of five mins last time! This time I will not be putting any valve anywhere near it as I seem to kill the thing everytime I roll in another tube pair! Nosireee I've learned that lesson! I keep meaning to do that so I can do a back to back with the Green Solo!

Speaking of which as I go off on another tangent - I'm bloody loving the AKG 701s I bought another step in the right direction over the Senn 650 and the Grado 325i

[insomniac]

Feb 5, 2009 10:49:41 GMT pagan said:

Leo
It might be a similar technique for conversion from network protocol to spdif as the SB...?

Anyone found any inside pics or info?

It appears that the stock unit needs a bit of work to bring it up to scratch.
The guys at Cullen Circuits are offering an upgrade board for the sonos Zp80/90...$550



From their site:

Sonos ZP-80 Modification

The Sonos ZP-80 is a fabulous product. Massive amounts of time have spent on design.
The ZP-80 has one of the best interfaces around. It's obvious of the efforts put into the functionality of the unit, and not so much into the audio quality.

This is where we come in!

This is indeed a product worthy of a Cullen Circuits modification. We can transform this great product into a killer sonic bargain. Why? Because it's built well, has many bells, but no whistles. We will make up for the last 20% that makes the product a joy to listen to. They have made the sonos right on everything but the performance.

The Sonos Reclocker modification is now available. This upgrade entirely replaces the mediocre Cirrius Logic CODAC and the associated high jitter clocks. The mod was designed to intergrate the SONOS system into a high end audio system thru an outboard Digital to Analog Converter.


www.cullencircuits.com/webapps/site/67005/78076/shopping/shopping-view.html?pid=299746

[leo]

Looking at the prices places charge for after market mods says we are in the wrong job www.boldercables.com/servlet/Search?category=MODIFICATIONS

If anybody is thinking about getting a Squeezebox to mod I'd go for the Duet Receiver, its much easier than the SB3

Thats an interesting ap Sol for the iphone, be pretty cheap just to buy a receiver for 99 quid and use the iphone instead of the Duet controller

Its been reported SC7.4 beta version is supposed to sound better than the other versions, I've not tried it yet so can't comment

[Deleted]

BTW .. anyone know why my SB3 has suddenly stopped playing 24/96 .... I

Sol
Just checked mine, its playing them fine.
juke

[Sol]

Must be something that the sound card has done in installing it? Sound card is a X-Fi from creative .. which handles 24/96??? I'm ratehr confused by all this!