The Big 3
Jul 5, 2008 13:57:24 GMT
Post by rickcr42 on Jul 5, 2008 13:57:24 GMT
Disregarding Electrostats this being all about dynamic headphones the evidence would suggest the consensus in "best" is pretty much whittled down to what I call "The Big Three" with those three being the Sennheiser HD650,the AKG K701 and my personal favorite the Grado RS-1.
Each has followers that more often than not will defend their choice while slamming the other two for various reasons which to me is childish since there is nothing wrong with personal taste and if a person likes a thing who are others to judge what they should do or listen to ? Would it not be a very bland world if we were all the same and liked the very same things on all levels ?
Was checking into some tube data over at the tubes USA site and for no good reason just started clicking the links where I stumbled on the CNET audio blogs and that because the first was on the 1626 Double darling,an amp I am currently gathering the parts for my interest level was raised enough to continue reading the other blogs with one being the point of this thread
"Feed Your Ears"
news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-9974719-47.html
A pleasant enough piece of filler but one that has again made me sit back in my chair and think "here we go again dammit.Because something sounds good it just MUST somehow be inaccurate"
This is something i see over and over in every single review site I have ever visited on all thing audio related and that is the reviewer,upon comparing more than one example of a thing,just about always will have a guilty concience about the thing that actually PLAYS MUSIC because they have been taught over time that the bloodless "electronic" sound IS what is accepted in most circles as being accurate and if so many beleive this to be true then it just MUST BE TRUE !
That many folks just can not be wrong even though if you look at history one would take the exact opposite tack we having had more trouble in human history when humans blindly followed the pack and is a mistake that apparently very few seem to have learned the lessons of considering how rampant lemminglike behaviour is these last few years and that especially so when it comes to audio gear where FOTM is disgustingly openly displayed for all the world to see at many of our largest audio forums.
Going back to the article the mini breakdown of the big three is thus :
AKG 701
------------
"Its remarkably open sound will be hugely appealing for those of you who use headphones while watching DVDs. I find the K 701 produces a less in your head, more speaker-like sound than the Grado or Sennheiser"
I can't really comment on this other than to say i have zero listening experience with these cans and this is something i have meant to rectify but for whatever reason just have not gotten to so personal comments would be out of line other than this seems to be the consensus on the sound.
The Grado RS-1
--------------------
"Even in this group of heady contenders the Grado RS-1's luscious sound scores an immediate wow response. The hand-crafted, real-mahogany headphone belts out a Technicolor rich sound, . Watching the Heartworn Highways documentary DVD starring Guy Clark, Steve Earle, Townes Van Zant, and Rodney Crowell performing in kitchens and back porches I feel like I am right there with the musicians. The RS-1's foam ear pads may not be the most comfortable things, but over the months living with an endless run of the world's best headphones I gravitated to the RS-1 more than any other. I love these headphones"
OK.That pretty much describes my experience as well.simply put : They play MUSIC the way I hear it at the live event.Period.
So why does this have to be thrown in " but I'd guess it's less accurate than the AKG and Sennheisers"
Why ? If the headphones bring you MORE of the feeling you are listening to actual humans playing actual instruments then why is this less accurate than the tewo that do not ?
Is not the purpose of music playback in the home setting an attempt to try and recapture the essence of the live event ?
And if yes WHY when you get a glimpse into that window do reviwers time and time again poist such nonsense every time something goes away from "electronic sound" or "Hi Fi sound" to actually conveying the musical performance ?
Worse is when I read how much a reviewer likes item "A" because it plays MUSIC but recommends item "B" because he has a feeling A is less accurate and it is my beleif they truly beleive this because they have grown up in a world of sanitised music so when they actually hear something that not only gets the notes right but also conveys the essence of the performance their brain can't process the data it being way to off the normal channels,too out of bounds from what is conventional thought and NO ONE wants to be an outcast so they recommend what they think keeps them socially acceptable then in the dark where no one can see them use the one they actually LIKE.They make the right personal choice but can't breing themselves to make the recommendation for others probably having witnessed what happens to others who do such-they become targets of the "me too" conformists and if i know one thing it is you damn sure better be comfortablke in your own skin and confident in your own thoughts if you want to buck up against the pack because they are a hungry bunch with little control when it comes to the hunt.
Sennheiser HD650
-----------------------
"the Sennheiser HD 650's modernist styling does not get in the way of comfort--you can wear these headphones for hours on end without ever experiencing the dreaded clamped-to-the-head feeling. The sound is warm, bass huge, and the treble range sweet; the HD 650's low distortion sound lets me listen at louder volumes than the other 'phones without fatigue"
I personally am no fan of the Sennheiser "house sound" feeling it is more "Hi-Fi" than it is a purveyer of music as i hear it at a live event though being the #1 high end headphone extant on the planet earth I realise this is a minority view (something i have no problem living with BTW ).
Personal taste being what it is it is not for me to decide what others like but having had some real time with both the RS-1 and the HD600 (close enough to the HD650) I can make somepersonal observations.
First.Let me get this out of the way.How does this statement on the RS-1 : "I'd guess it's less accurate than the AKG and Sennheisers" match up with this statement on the HD650 :"The sound is warm, bass huge, and the treble range sweet"
WTF ?
I must be losing my mind because I am at a loss to come up with ANY scenario where "Huge Bass and Sweet Treble" can be deciphered to mean MORE ACCURATE than "Watching the Heartworn Highways documentary DVD starring Guy Clark, Steve Earle, Townes Van Zant, and Rodney Crowell performing in kitchens and back porches I feel like I am right there with the musicians"
My take is one plays the event nearer to the performance and the other nearer to what is more natural for most listeners and that is closer to the Hi-fi soud they grew up with most having more exposure to recordings than they do live events.
I come from the opposite direction.
My personal experience up until my later years (yes,even Iget old dammit ) has been the home playback system was for parties or background music.not THE event but part of whatever other event i was involved with at the time so much like having the radio on in the car while travelling my music was always "on' but was not THE focus point but more something to make everything else more enjoyable or put another way-a supporting role to everything else.
It was not uncommon for me to do every local bar band of note,every local concert and at least once every two weeks a major concert and that ranging from rock to jazz to blues to damn near everything in between not to mention many times being on stage or back stage with the performers having been roped into doing "roadie" for the gig plus a few times in the studio with the same bands (there for the chicks and drinks mostly )
so my exposure to musicians and live sound has been pretty extensive and over a long period creating a situation where I KNOW what live music sounds and I KNOW what a stereo system sounds like and I KNOW what a studio recording sounds like creating a situation where now in my older days where i do more serious home listening than i do actual live events I try my best to recapture the same "feel" at home as i heard when more actively into the live scene and for me what gets me closest in headphones is the RS-1 with the Alessandro MS-1 coming in second and no third place.
i have other can and i listen to other cans but they are not for serious listening being more back to my original "home audio as my own personal soundtrack",background music to my life.
This makes me think a lot of choices are made on life experiences which translated over to headphone music means if your experience is ostly with recorded audio then THAT is the sound you are comfortable with and will if you have an interest try to perfect the palyback of in your home but if your experience is more with live sound then your mission willl be to try and capture as much of that as possible in the home and just like with the live it is not always pretty but it IS true to life,way harder than hi-fi in my mind
Somewhat on the same topic and from the same site is this
news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-9839299-47.html
Again goes to taste.Those with live music as refernce by majority use tube gear as the means of playback in the home while those with recorded music as their reference have no problem with solid state gear as a majority.At least that has been my experience
rick out
Each has followers that more often than not will defend their choice while slamming the other two for various reasons which to me is childish since there is nothing wrong with personal taste and if a person likes a thing who are others to judge what they should do or listen to ? Would it not be a very bland world if we were all the same and liked the very same things on all levels ?
Was checking into some tube data over at the tubes USA site and for no good reason just started clicking the links where I stumbled on the CNET audio blogs and that because the first was on the 1626 Double darling,an amp I am currently gathering the parts for my interest level was raised enough to continue reading the other blogs with one being the point of this thread
"Feed Your Ears"
news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-9974719-47.html
A pleasant enough piece of filler but one that has again made me sit back in my chair and think "here we go again dammit.Because something sounds good it just MUST somehow be inaccurate"
This is something i see over and over in every single review site I have ever visited on all thing audio related and that is the reviewer,upon comparing more than one example of a thing,just about always will have a guilty concience about the thing that actually PLAYS MUSIC because they have been taught over time that the bloodless "electronic" sound IS what is accepted in most circles as being accurate and if so many beleive this to be true then it just MUST BE TRUE !
That many folks just can not be wrong even though if you look at history one would take the exact opposite tack we having had more trouble in human history when humans blindly followed the pack and is a mistake that apparently very few seem to have learned the lessons of considering how rampant lemminglike behaviour is these last few years and that especially so when it comes to audio gear where FOTM is disgustingly openly displayed for all the world to see at many of our largest audio forums.
Going back to the article the mini breakdown of the big three is thus :
AKG 701
------------
"Its remarkably open sound will be hugely appealing for those of you who use headphones while watching DVDs. I find the K 701 produces a less in your head, more speaker-like sound than the Grado or Sennheiser"
I can't really comment on this other than to say i have zero listening experience with these cans and this is something i have meant to rectify but for whatever reason just have not gotten to so personal comments would be out of line other than this seems to be the consensus on the sound.
The Grado RS-1
--------------------
"Even in this group of heady contenders the Grado RS-1's luscious sound scores an immediate wow response. The hand-crafted, real-mahogany headphone belts out a Technicolor rich sound, . Watching the Heartworn Highways documentary DVD starring Guy Clark, Steve Earle, Townes Van Zant, and Rodney Crowell performing in kitchens and back porches I feel like I am right there with the musicians. The RS-1's foam ear pads may not be the most comfortable things, but over the months living with an endless run of the world's best headphones I gravitated to the RS-1 more than any other. I love these headphones"
OK.That pretty much describes my experience as well.simply put : They play MUSIC the way I hear it at the live event.Period.
So why does this have to be thrown in " but I'd guess it's less accurate than the AKG and Sennheisers"
Why ? If the headphones bring you MORE of the feeling you are listening to actual humans playing actual instruments then why is this less accurate than the tewo that do not ?
Is not the purpose of music playback in the home setting an attempt to try and recapture the essence of the live event ?
And if yes WHY when you get a glimpse into that window do reviwers time and time again poist such nonsense every time something goes away from "electronic sound" or "Hi Fi sound" to actually conveying the musical performance ?
Worse is when I read how much a reviewer likes item "A" because it plays MUSIC but recommends item "B" because he has a feeling A is less accurate and it is my beleif they truly beleive this because they have grown up in a world of sanitised music so when they actually hear something that not only gets the notes right but also conveys the essence of the performance their brain can't process the data it being way to off the normal channels,too out of bounds from what is conventional thought and NO ONE wants to be an outcast so they recommend what they think keeps them socially acceptable then in the dark where no one can see them use the one they actually LIKE.They make the right personal choice but can't breing themselves to make the recommendation for others probably having witnessed what happens to others who do such-they become targets of the "me too" conformists and if i know one thing it is you damn sure better be comfortablke in your own skin and confident in your own thoughts if you want to buck up against the pack because they are a hungry bunch with little control when it comes to the hunt.
Sennheiser HD650
-----------------------
"the Sennheiser HD 650's modernist styling does not get in the way of comfort--you can wear these headphones for hours on end without ever experiencing the dreaded clamped-to-the-head feeling. The sound is warm, bass huge, and the treble range sweet; the HD 650's low distortion sound lets me listen at louder volumes than the other 'phones without fatigue"
I personally am no fan of the Sennheiser "house sound" feeling it is more "Hi-Fi" than it is a purveyer of music as i hear it at a live event though being the #1 high end headphone extant on the planet earth I realise this is a minority view (something i have no problem living with BTW ).
Personal taste being what it is it is not for me to decide what others like but having had some real time with both the RS-1 and the HD600 (close enough to the HD650) I can make somepersonal observations.
First.Let me get this out of the way.How does this statement on the RS-1 : "I'd guess it's less accurate than the AKG and Sennheisers" match up with this statement on the HD650 :"The sound is warm, bass huge, and the treble range sweet"
WTF ?
I must be losing my mind because I am at a loss to come up with ANY scenario where "Huge Bass and Sweet Treble" can be deciphered to mean MORE ACCURATE than "Watching the Heartworn Highways documentary DVD starring Guy Clark, Steve Earle, Townes Van Zant, and Rodney Crowell performing in kitchens and back porches I feel like I am right there with the musicians"
My take is one plays the event nearer to the performance and the other nearer to what is more natural for most listeners and that is closer to the Hi-fi soud they grew up with most having more exposure to recordings than they do live events.
I come from the opposite direction.
My personal experience up until my later years (yes,even Iget old dammit ) has been the home playback system was for parties or background music.not THE event but part of whatever other event i was involved with at the time so much like having the radio on in the car while travelling my music was always "on' but was not THE focus point but more something to make everything else more enjoyable or put another way-a supporting role to everything else.
It was not uncommon for me to do every local bar band of note,every local concert and at least once every two weeks a major concert and that ranging from rock to jazz to blues to damn near everything in between not to mention many times being on stage or back stage with the performers having been roped into doing "roadie" for the gig plus a few times in the studio with the same bands (there for the chicks and drinks mostly )
so my exposure to musicians and live sound has been pretty extensive and over a long period creating a situation where I KNOW what live music sounds and I KNOW what a stereo system sounds like and I KNOW what a studio recording sounds like creating a situation where now in my older days where i do more serious home listening than i do actual live events I try my best to recapture the same "feel" at home as i heard when more actively into the live scene and for me what gets me closest in headphones is the RS-1 with the Alessandro MS-1 coming in second and no third place.
i have other can and i listen to other cans but they are not for serious listening being more back to my original "home audio as my own personal soundtrack",background music to my life.
This makes me think a lot of choices are made on life experiences which translated over to headphone music means if your experience is ostly with recorded audio then THAT is the sound you are comfortable with and will if you have an interest try to perfect the palyback of in your home but if your experience is more with live sound then your mission willl be to try and capture as much of that as possible in the home and just like with the live it is not always pretty but it IS true to life,way harder than hi-fi in my mind
Somewhat on the same topic and from the same site is this
news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-9839299-47.html
Again goes to taste.Those with live music as refernce by majority use tube gear as the means of playback in the home while those with recorded music as their reference have no problem with solid state gear as a majority.At least that has been my experience
rick out