X-DAC V8, X-RAY V8 combo

[Sol]

My father bought himself this ... at a special offer price of 800 quid, it represents the steal of the century if you believe MRP of a grand for the DAC and 800 for the X-RAY.

We had 2 of 3 very enjoyable listening sessions this weekend .. some more clouded by whisky that perhaps they should have been, but good fun non- the less.

The X-DAC v8
Built in PSU, DAC stage, and a tube buffer. 3 digital inputs (all coax) and a USB input

Fed by my squeezebox, and compared to my X-DAC V3 combo (modded with Burson Discrete opamps), and X-10 V3 (Mike's kit) the V8 is tad more detail, has a wee bit more space, but highlights that noise in the upper frequencies that makes things a little distorted, less sweet, that the X-10 V3 took out of the equation. In fact I ended up wanting to listen to my kit more because it demo'd just how good Mike's kit is on the X-10, and my choice of bursons is.

Switch the tube buffer into the V8, it adds a we bit more weight to the lower end, and you get a hint more glossiness.

With a Squeezebox as a source, the V8 and the V3 DAC and X-10 come very close - my preference remains for my modded set up. However the surprise came when we threw the X-RAY into the equation.

X-RAY V8 with the V8 DAC was better than Squeezebox source in either combination ... though I really would have liked to have the linear PSU on the Squeezebox, the lack of it, I'm sure, is responsible for injecting the upper range edginess that the V8 DAC was bringing out. The X-RAY being an altogether better source sounded super with the V8 and the V3 combo,

There's speed to it's delivery that absolutely opens up music .. notes start and end as the recording intends .. there's no smearing, and with the separation I found myself lusting. That was until I threw in my modded V3 combo with the V8. We took the digital feed to my DAC V3 x-10 combo from the X-RAY V8 and cher-ching ... woah! It's only being used as a transport fer-christakes - but for the first time ever I've heard an obvious improvement from a digital transport ... very bloody good. WIth the X-RAY as source, I prefered my DAC and tube buffer over the V8 - lushness, organic ... niiiice!

Anyhow .. they'll be going home tomorrow, but I do get my linear PSU back for the Squeezebox ... T H A N K S L E O!

In conclusion

• the V8 DAC is good, but will highlight RF noise in your digital source - it's that resolving
  
• The Modded V3 DAC and X-10 combo I have is much better at rejecting noise, than the standard V8. Producing a much more organic sound.
  
• The X-RAY V8 when powered by the PSU in the X-DAC V8 is an outstanding source - it allows the DAC to sing and is obviously feeding the X-DAC V8 with less shit in the bits than the Squeezebox can.
  

...




I beleive the Squeezebox with linear PSU will raise the bar again - in fact I have no doubt - but without a direct comparison I can't swear by it - only suspect.

I would have liked to have listened to the X-RAY V8 without the DAC's in the equation, and I would have liked to have compared my modded CD63KI back to back with the X-RAY. For fulliness it owuld have also been nice to have listened to the CD63KI V3 DAC combo back to back with the X-RAY V8 DAC V8 to form a fuller opinion - but no time - and too much music to listen to!

Food for thought though .... how good could a modded X-DAC V8 - there's caps in there ... guaranteed MF crap ... definite mod potential with it's tube buffer, PSU, and DAC sections it's bound to be tight in there. BUt ... with the level of RF rejection going on with better cmponents in my modded stuff it's obvious where the V8 DAC is let down - however, if the source is good ... it really can sing .. and rather well.

[Deleted]

Sol
Glad to hear that you have now heard the improvement due to a better transport. Now you can see why some CD/DVD players improve with sound deadening and a few simple tweaks, even when used as a transport.
Alex

[Sol]

Apr 27, 2008 20:55:01 GMT @sandyk said:

Sol
Glad to hear that you have now heard the improvement due to a better transport. Now you can see why some CD/DVD players improve with sound deadening and a few simple tweaks, even when used as a transport.
Alex

In my original edit I had added a"Sorry Alex" at that point ... but knew you'd remember I now fully retract all previous statements to the contrary - I'm a convert. It's obvious that the source is injecting crap into the system. Some offline PMs with Leo has confirmed some improvements he's made to his Squeezebox .. but way too much for me to attempt with my hamfists ... but I'm looking forward to repartiating my Linear PSU - which gives a huge benefit to my ears in the rejecting nosie stakes.

... oh and thanks for reminding me of my past indiscretions! I've learned so much in the lats comuple of years on this board. Without the costant banter na dideas, I'm be still swimming aournd in a pool of congealed mush I used to call music ...

[Deleted]

Sol
Perhaps a further leap in faith, may dispose you to the notion that PERHAPS P.C. sound from an EAC sourced .wav file on the HDD, can sound better from PC analogue out, than a normal CD/DVD player and DAC combination ? The CD replay system has many areas where deterioration may occur. You have just found one of them ! I covered some of this in another post a little while ago. rockgrotto.proboards39.com/?board=c&action=display&thread=2754&page=1
Alex

[Sol]

I rember that thread Alex ... and I even dipped into DIY audio and had a gander at your posts there.

I should try ASIO ... but until I get a PC that's got a good sound card, also runs silently, and has a small profile, I'll have to stick with the FLAC streamed via wireless to the Squeezebox.

I run the 2007 FLAC right now .. and have been I'm considering buying more hard drive space and re-scanning everything to WAV - now I have the liear PSU on the way back for the Squeezebox I can I can play with WAV files and have a good listen.

Also high on my list of things to listen to is a good Class A amp into a speaker based system. Everything I ever read suggests that twin monobloc approach should be the way to go - maybe in the dim and distance future when I have enough money, get the idea past the missus, and convince myself I really want to start all over again!

[Deleted]

Sol
Most recent PCs are quieter electrically, and although not silent, unless they are overclocked or don't use speed controlled fans, they aren't really intrusive for headphone listening.
I agree, a linear PSU does make a worthwhile improvement to the SB, but it still has a long way to go. Unlike you , I no longer have a ball and chain around to tell me what I can and can't do.There are good Class A designs around that use a single case, such as the Silicon Chip 20W/Ch. design, but unfortunately, it is a kit design, and only suitable for the more experienced DIY person.

Alex

[XTRProf]

As I had said earlier, for the present, those server type sound systems wouldn't be as good as one with a proper transport although all things are done digitally. Just imagine how good can a disc drive be? I mean one like the Esoteric transport against the disc drive "transport"?

Actually between the X-Dac V8 and the V3, the main difference is the V8 incorporates the PSU (most probably a beefier one) and X-10 into the V3. Both also uses the 1792/3 dac chip from BB. To be fair to the V8, they should be moded along the same path you had moded your V3 stuffs. After that, I wouldn't be surprised both will sound about the same.

Actually, when you described the V8 sounding peaky, I also have the same feeling when I connected up the V3 to my system. But all had changed now after all the modes todate. Now my moded V3 will be able to compete with the rest of the highend dacs out there. I have not completed the completist mode yet though due to time constraint.

[XTRProf]

Apr 27, 2008 20:40:35 GMT Sol said:

Fed by my squeezebox, and compared to my X-DAC V3 combo (modded with Burson Discrete opamps) ..........

Wow, you have the Aussie Burson discrete opas? 6 of them for your X-Dac V3? How much you have paid for each of them? I quess quite expensive, right? What are your immediate impressions when switching over to the discretes? That will be the clearest indication of the sound after having been listening with the unmodded V3 for some time. I'm also thinking along this path in a diy cap.

[Deleted]

XTRProf
I understand that the Bursons are very demanding of their PSUs for good results.
Alex

[XTRProf]

May 1, 2008 2:22:54 GMT @sandyk said:

XTRProf
I understand that the Bursons are very demanding of their PSUs for good results.
Alex

Well, I'm not getting that but just to confirm that a discrete path is the way to go. The Burson is very expensive stuff, if I'm not wrong, which a diy way will almost produce the same result at maybe 1/4 cost. U see I'm also looking at value versus what I'm getting.

Of course, with a discrete setup, I or even all must relook at the PS requirements thru actual measurements again and that is the fun part back again.

Thanks for the feedback and keep in coming. I'm very open on this to raise the standard of understanding of this diy game.

[Sol]

The bursons were place din the final pair only ... and the change wa sdefinately beneficial ... Burson suggest putting a small cap across each disrete opamp - which I haven't done.

I'd like to try a Mike Pinkie PSU, but have'y yet

Main change to the sound is a silkness to the upper end ... and when my source was worse I could notice immediately .. now the linear is back with the SB3 it's back to great. We can always get better I know, but the system I have works for me, for now anyhow

[XTRProf]

May 1, 2008 14:15:16 GMT Sol said:

The bursons were place din the final pair only ... and the change wa sdefinately beneficial ... Burson suggest putting a small cap across each disrete opamp - which I haven't done.

Small cap across what? Output and negative input or between + and - inputs? If in the first negative feedback loop, then it's not necessary as the X-Dac V3 already have a 2.7nF to prevent oscillation and peaking of the OPA output thru driving capacitive cables. Actually, the design is quite stable as it has all the features as used in the OPA application notes to reduce oscillation even for fast high slew rate OPAs.

[Deleted]

XTRProf
I expect it is more likely to be across the PSU + and -, perhaps across the pins on the socket.
SandyK

[XTRProf]

May 9, 2008 12:43:15 GMT @sandyk said:

XTRProf
I expect it is more likely to be across the PSU + and -, perhaps across the pins on the socket.
SandyK

Oh, great! That definitely will improve the sound as then the local PSs will be beefed up as what I had done. The beefed up local PSs also will help to eliminate any oscillations (instability) due to changing PS related demand by the OPAs. However, you must use low ESR and low impedance type of caps like the the best of the best EC and BG BP Super E-Caps which have an ESR of about 0.01 ohm and a varying impedance based on the formula 1 / 2 pi f C. The bloody X-Dac V3 doesn't have local PS but just only filter caps for the local PSs which in my opinion is insufficient. All OPA application notes recommend local PSs for best operations and probably sound. I whole heartedly agreed on that from my experience in my X-Dac thread. But don't put a cap across the socket pins as that will be capacitative load and will increase chance of the OPAs oscillating. Capacitative load is a no no.