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Post by krisno on Feb 23, 2008 20:24:31 GMT
Hi 'again'.
I am very active this weekend, i just need to get my orders sorted...
Why do I get the feeling that the MF X-dac v3 is crap. Nobody talks about it, is it just because it is old? It is actually a $1000 DAC made by a company who has made DAC's and CD players for a long time.
Why do people even want to talk about Zer0 DAC, or all these other $500 branded DAC.
Isn't the MF X-DAC v3 good, or is it too detailed and people don't like that? Is it because it is not USB(i miss that myself). The Benchmark Dac 1 is a detailed DAC, but it is NOT musical. It is not worth the money at all if you like good music, maybe if you work in a sound lab.
But tell me, what is wrong with the X-DAC V3? Too detailed? I want to know before considering the probably inferior Lehmann USB(as it is very very easy to use and less cabling)...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2008 21:38:18 GMT
Krisno
Do you ever tire of stirring the pot ? Much of this has already been covered many times previously, as I am sure you are well aware. You know that the X-DAC V3 has been superseded a while back, even though it is still on sale in many places. As I have said previously it is mediocre in it's standard form, but still much better than what comes out of the majority of CD and DVD players directly. It is capable of extremely high performance if suitably modified.There are also several companies that specialise in these type of modifications. That was also covered recently.If you think the statement is BS about just how good the X-DAC V3 can sound after suitable modifications, then several Sydney members of Rock Grotto can attest otherwise. Go and buy a USB DAC, their shortcomings have also been detailed several times by more technical members. If you want great performance from a single box solution that doesn't take up much room on your desk, then you are going to have to revise your budget upwards !
SandyK
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Post by krisno on Feb 23, 2008 21:48:12 GMT
Superceded by what? a $200 usb dac?
Probably the Mark Levision DAC released in 92 costing $11 000 is better than almost all other DAC's even today. So price still counts.
I am revising upwards, the £1000 Lehmann is expensive, my problem there is that the damn USB DAC has the worst specs ever that I can't justify buying it really.
Maybe MF will be out with a new X-dac v3 lookalike DAC in a year or so, maybe it will fix the issues.
A great X dac without tube stage, and integrated torriodal transformer would be a nice thing from MF.
WHAT DAC do you use yourself SandyK these days?
K
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2008 22:05:06 GMT
As stated previously: A modified X-DAC V3 powered by an outboard , dual regulated + and - 15VDC supply using LM317 and LM337 voltage regulators. I still have a few ideas to extract even more from this DAC.
As I have also said previously in other threads, there are another 2 similarly modified X-DAC V3s in Sydney. One of these has even been removed from it's original case and installed in a 1 unit rack case, complete with a dual regulated PSU.
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Post by fanboi on Feb 24, 2008 3:55:16 GMT
Kris, here is something to really throw your thoughts into confusion. About a month ago I attended a get-together of music lovers and we had a blind testing session of 5 different sources connected to the same amplifier and set of speakers. Much of the info may not be relevant to you, but read on - the sources were - Denon 695 CDP - $600 Shanling MC30 - $1595 Laptop/Citypulse USB DAC - $1800/$1395 Raysonic CD128 - $2495 Wadia 302 - $8999 The results (all testers did not know the source except by number) and results were written down without collaboration and collated after the session. I quote from a post on another forum - "As expected 9 out of 11 first grade cricketers ranked the Denon LAST.............thank you know who for that. EVERYONE listed the Laptop/DAC combo in their top 2............and I mean everyone. As far as the other three were concerned everyone changed their preference on different music styles, which is interesting as the price varied from $1595 to $8999. Quite simply some players handled big bass better than others, but lacked detail in the subtle nuances of quiet passages and instrumental solo's. Bass punch and attack.................nothing comes close to the Raysonic Great all round performance on all music types.................MC30 Fine detail and subtle nuances, especially Jazz and classical..............Wadia every time." The part of interest to you, apart from the range of contenders including a Wadia, is the almost universal high ranking of the laptop/citypulse USB DAC combination. Here is a link to the Citypulse unit used in the comparison, it includes headphone output although I cannot offer any evaluation of that aspect. www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/p/Citypulse-DA203e/Citypulse+Audio+DA-2.03e+USB+DACYes, it is an Australian site but I am fairly sure the unit is made in China (what isn't these days except tea & china?) and so is probably available elsewhere. Yes, it is more than your original budget, but it is USB, one box and evaluates (as a DAC at least) to be in the sort of quality range you have indicated. So go find out about that one. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2008 4:11:23 GMT
Tony
Soundlabs normally only sell high quality gear, although their prices are usually a little on the high side. What you didn't really make clear is that it isn't a USB DAC ! It is a DAC that just happens to have a USB input as well as coaxial and optical inputs. I have seen this unit elsewhere before, and it certainly does seem interesting. City Pulse is U.S.A. origin ? (not necessarily made there though!) I'm relying on ageing memory here !
Alex
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Post by fanboi on Feb 24, 2008 5:00:41 GMT
Alex, in the context of the comparison to which I referred, it was used as a USB DAC - fed streaming digital via USB from Windows Media Player running on the laptop.
For Kris' purposes it is a USB DAC that offers further options for connectivity.
I would not be surprised to find the headphone output more than acceptable but cannot vouch for that.
Unsure of design origin but fairly sure of chinese manufacture, you made me do a little homework (more) found 3 sites in US selling it, 2 around $US450 and one $US1195
@ $450 I could be half tempted to try one myself, I think the PSU is switchable and IEC inlet.
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Post by krisno on Feb 24, 2008 10:39:57 GMT
Fanboi: 1) It's nice to see that money actually counts, also in hifi, and it isn't all just placebo effects and big lies. 2) Laptop + DAC is just as good as any transport + dac if done correctly. The thing is, the guys you say that 'love' laptop + dac, is it laptop -> spdif -> dac , or is it laptop -> USB -> dac? Which DAC's did those guys do, do you mean that a Lehmann or X-Can V8 USB DAC will be just fine, and one can sell the X-DAC V3. I really would beleive that a $1000 standalone spdif DAC is better than a built in USB DAC, as in the X-Can V8. Is there a plan for MF to release a new X-dac v3 lookalike thing? I don't know what to do. Maybe sell it all and just get a normal Bang & Olufsen stereo.  My choices are 1) Lehmann Linear + X-Dac v3 driven from SPDIF on laptop, using AKG K 701 2) X-CAN V8 and use the built in USB, hoping that the V8 is much better at driving AKG 701 than X-Can v3. This saves alot of clutter, because no extra DAC etc 3) Lehmann USB Linear - saving the same amount of clutter as the x-can v8 (no extra dac, no pcmcia soundcard to get spdif, no wallwart on the floor etc)... but the quality of the DAC might be so bad that it sounds 'no good'. Clutter vs good sound, there must be a 'fine line' there... I have to pay 'blood' to get that Lehmann though. Maybe a Talisman is just as good. K |
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Post by fanboi on Feb 24, 2008 11:13:21 GMT
Kris, I appreciate that English is probably not your native tongue and my Norwegian is non-existent, but I have to wonder if you actually read the stuff that people go to a lot of trouble to type up in answer to your questions. Because if you did read it you would not ask half the questions that you do. Let me make this simple, what we tested, laptop -> USB -> Citypulse DAC -> amplifier -> good quality 2 way mini- monitors. all other sources -> same amplifier and speakers. Average ranking by 11 listeners, 2 = average 2nd best choice of sources available on the day. The Citypulse DAC, all in one box, no separate power supply, USB input, headphone amplifier and also analogue out, 24/192 PCM1796. Available from www.audio-magus.com/Citypulse_DAC_DA2_03e_p/cpda203e.htm $US450 plus postage, they ship worldwide - buy one and try your K701 on it - then IF you need to, get another amp. Please at least look at the webpage and read the specs for yourself. |
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Post by krisno on Feb 24, 2008 14:23:51 GMT
I should be able to both understand and write english. I lived 1 year in Oxford, had 12 years of english at school, + I did my 6 year medicine study in english.  The source is not my problem. I won't get an external DAC just to get USB which is OS dependent anyways. I allready have the X-Dac v3. The problem is how much degradation on the signal quality is there when MF and Lehmann uses the cheap burr brown USB dac's. But still its nice that one can confirm in a blind test that Wadia is still the best. Wadia is excellent. If I had alot of CD's, which I do not, latest gen Wadia CD player + Lehmann would be the one combination to get. But hell, this is supposed to be enjoyment at the computer. I think I will get the X-Can v8 anyways, and maybe do a expensive tube swap. It's little clutter. It's cheap, and it is a world known BRAND! Easy to sell. (talisman, heed, etc, is not a known brand here, and the Heed is just DIY with very bad electrolytes). Thanks ! K |
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Post by derekrumble on Feb 25, 2008 11:03:49 GMT
No - the X-DACv3 is not crap. In my view it is a neutral, detailed, tightly focussed, all-round good performer. And it will seriously improve the sound of any budget CD player - which is what it was designed to do. In other words, if you have a budget CD player then a good upgrade route is to add an X-DAC to it. The result will will as if you hade bought a CD player at a far higher price than than just the cost of the X-DAC alone. I know of a very discerning listener who rates the X-DAC highly. And just because the X-DAC can be modded and improved doesn't mean it is poor to start of with.
Musical Fidelity did, of course, purposefully supply the X-DACv3 with a very basic power supply - it's good marketing and gets you to buy two boxes instead of one! All reviews of the X-DACv3, when it was released, said the X-DACv3 was a good performer but much improved by the add-on PSU. Unfortunatly the X-PSU was too expensive for many users - me included. It is / was a lot of cash for a transformer in a nice box. Fortunately, through this forum, you can get a hand-made PSU for little money - and the user reports suggest it's a great PSU.
So don't knock the X-DAC because it is 'good' and not 'great' . That's what we expect from all mid-fi units. In English currency a £450 X-DACv3 coupled with a £30 'supermarket' DVD macine will sound as good as a £800 one-box player - in my opinion.
I will let you all know how I get on with my Little Pinkie V3i when Mike has built it for me. I am so eager to add it to my X-DACv3.
Derek
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Feb 25, 2008 15:02:07 GMT
A little off topic but I've got a Musical Fidelity A1 integrated amplifier & that's a piece of crap as well. So it's not just your X-dac v3, Kris.
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Nigel
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Post by Nigel on Feb 25, 2008 15:07:12 GMT
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 25, 2008 15:30:28 GMT
Depends on what one considers "crap" to mean? Sounds crap? built like crap? crap looking? Crap price? or all four?
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Post by krisno on Feb 25, 2008 15:51:22 GMT
Pinkfloyd, please can you answer my mail or PM regarding a new Littlie pinkie v3i without switch?
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leo
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Post by leo on Feb 25, 2008 15:57:36 GMT
If true that is a F*****g disgrace !!! I heard a few rooms demoing speakers using MF gear at the Bristol show yesterday, never been a fan of the MF separates sound tbh but the build quality is decent , unfortunately there was hardly any headphone amps there at all |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 25, 2008 16:13:15 GMT
Pinkfloyd, please can you answer my mail or PM regarding a new Littlie pinkie v3i without switch? Of course Krisno.... as soon as I get access to my account I will respond. |
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Post by krisno on Feb 25, 2008 19:21:31 GMT
Right Mike. The X-Can V8 has been orderd. I am paying 500 euro for it, inclusive shipping. I am getting it in 2 weeks. If the DAC is crappy, sounds bad, or I don't manage to go with tubes, even though this one should be refined when using the AKG K 701, I will sell it, and go for the PS Audio Link III SPDIF/USB DAC + Lehmann Linear AMP + heavy interconnects. That will be my last try with headphones in any case, but I think I will be happy. So Mike... I just sold the littlie pinkie to a hifi guy here in norway. I want another one, 'make it your best' , but I don't want that damn switch at all. It is a little bit annoying and will easily break. The pinkie is very 'cute' without it. Contact me when you can so we can discuss price, shipping, etc. Thanks Kris |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2008 20:18:57 GMT
Nigel
A friend of mine had a similar experience with a limited edition SACD player from MARANTZ. These appear to be the risks you take when you purchase very limited edition stuff. After it is out of warranty, you seem to be all on your own. Not nice, but that's the way it is these days. The same kind of trade was offered,too.
Alex
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