MF X-DACv3 mods

[zanash]

These are taken from my email converstations with the owner


I've got the dac running now ....so I thought you'd like to know my first impressions.

The equipment used ...

Quad99cdp as transport via optical out
Lite DAC-AH as the comparison..........[I've a modded X-DAC but I'll try that later]
Quad 77 preamp
Dynavox Vr70e power amp
Martin Logan Aerius i speakers
My AgAu ic, silver speaker cables.

Bearing in mind that I gave everything twenty minutes to warm up......

From my notes these are the observations over several tracks on different cds
These are in comparison to the DAC-AH [modded and with a good power cable]

Congested full sound. Recessed /laid back
soft gentle little attacking edge

top - tinkly and splashy
mid -? didn't stand out but must be there !
bass- full, a bit one note like
imaging - ok reasonably sharp, nothing out side the speakers !

so a bit flat sounding and the leading edges of notes are lost , not unpleasent relaxed presentation.

If it all sounds poor ....but its not ! Its just the MF presentaion I can hear similarities with my X-DAC.

I remove the lids and had good look .......

The general quality of the componets is quite low, so I think a few simple change will reap large gains.

The first thing i did was to damp the ringing case work with bitumen damping ..this adds mass and reduces the ring.

I resoldered the silver wire and twisted them together. but it made me feel better !
I then swapped the output caps for silmics
I bypassed all the electrolytic caps using 1uf wima film caps.
swapped the resistor in the signal path for a dale vishay [the one removed was 47r repalced with 68r the nearest best quality one I had]
swapped the dac caps for stargets
swapped the big psu cap for a pair of 1200uf 35v 105degree
Made and fitted a 11DQ10 diode bridge in place of the standard ones, swapped the two descrete diodes for 11dq10's
fitted a third 1200uf 35v cap to the psu caps following listening tests.
damp the pcb using a silcone gunk....uck stuff but works!
fit anti rfi and emi measures, this is coper sticky back foil. I grounded the foil close to the chip on the ground plain.

The unit was listened following each stage.....I know your going to be a little shocked at the difference.

Gone is the shut in squashed sound ....it now sounds fast and open, with a deep tuneful bass and sweet top end. Gone is the shut in sound and sound stage has widened to beyond the speakers.

listening test....
one example is dark side of the moon track 3 the alarm clocks .......I know there coming but if that first bell makes me jump things are going well......before mods the alarm clocks drifted in and did not create any suprise.

Following the mods WOW I'm off the seat !

I would expect that with the better PSU you will get greater sublties and fine detail.

[Fergus]

Hi Zanash,

Fantastic work! ;D

At last someone has modded the X-DAC V3.

I agree with a number of your criticisms about the X-DAC. After the rave reviews it received the hifi press, I was expecting something special if not spectacular. Instead, I got an okay dac, very far from MF's hyperbole: "from a technical standpoint the X-DAC V3 is just about the best dac in the world." Bollocks!

Have you any pics? Would be great to see the work in process.

Fergus

[zanash]

email me.....

The dac actually now sounds very good...not perfect but then what ever is.

The rebuild was relatively pain less ..with the right tools !

If you want more info ...I could be persuaded to do a write up [did I really say that !]

[rickcr42]

Hint hint-do the witeup.

[thegreatroberto]

Dam
I nearly bought one of these X-DAC V3's the other day (on ebay).Glad I did not now !
I don't mind tweaking X-cans etc that retailed for £129, but with all the BS that MF have dished out about the V3 I thought it was well sorted.
As Rick said write-up and pics..........

[stellabagpuss]

Well it seems MF and many other Hi-FI Mags spread the BS quite thick. the X-dacv3 isn't that poor, But IMO you really need xPSUV3 & X10v3 to make this setup sing, the wallwart units are terrible, and although I regret buying the XPSUV3 because of it's price, it made the biggest difference in terms of sound quality. (lower noise floor,better dynamics and Bass). It seems that most HI-FI manufactures cut cost somewhere, whats the saying "Show me the Money"..
I've had a few CD Players over the years, one thing MF combo does do well, it digs up low level resolution really well, better than all my others I've had in the past. Although it does have many faults, and without going to off the subject to much, these became really apparent when I change my speaker cable from QED to Pure Solid Silver Cable."Zanash" design "Which is superb by the way!"
I am the lucky chap who is having the Mods done to my XDACV3 & X10V3, I looking forward to hearing the results, and of course I will post a Little review.

[Fergus]

Yes, the X-10 V3 and the X-PSU V3 do make the X-DAC V3 sound better: it opens up the sound, deepens the bass slightly, and sweetens and "cleans" the top end.

But the component quality in the X-DAC V3 - and for that matter the X-10 V3 - is, as Zanash says, "quite low", especially those nasty JAMICON general purpose capacitors.

Damn, yes, you are a very "lucky chap!!"

Eager to hear how the mods sound.

Fergus

[thegreatroberto]

So ,let me guess this right to get a decent X-DAC v3 I also need a psu ( transformer in a fancy box) and............some 1920's technology in the form of a X-10 V3............

Mike, there is a real market here in making sure I (and others) don't need the psu and X-10V3.

Make a good mod package for this DAC and let's be done with it.I'm sure all the mods will be in the analogue domain as they say !

In the meantime I'll stick with my MF X-Ray............It was good in 2000,it's still good in 2006,unless you know better !

[stellabagpuss]

Couldn't agree any more in regards to the XDACV3 & X10V3, but are the units any better than MF earlier units once modded? TBH I can't comment on that one, as there the only MF units I have ever owned. I believe that Zanash could comment on this one, as he owned and modded earlier MF DAC's in the past.
In regards to the PSU, sadly, thats all it is, yes in a matching box. No doubt you could make a nice up PSU if you are into DIY for £30 to £40 from Maplins Or RSS. Simply the XPSUV3 is a rip off at £250.00, although from my point of view it's to late now!
Another interesting point, is MF's sales pitch. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that apart from the XPSUV3,MF hasn't never recommended the use of the XDACV3 & X10V3 together. I read an review in a HI-FI mag that was for the XDACV3,it's only at the end of the review, that the reviewer adds the other units together,then starts to claim that amazing things, and claims the using the 3 units together as high end,and a bargain.
In all the reviews and sales Crap from MF I've read, they seem to be plugging the X10V3 as a stand alone unit,that is designed to improve the sound of your old or cheap CD/DVD player, and not really to be put on the the end of the XDACV3. It just turns out that the XDACV3 has such cheap Components inside, that the X10V3 does what it shouldn't really do,improve the sound !! Even though you just paid £500 on your XDACV3 !!
So I wonder if there any others that read that same review that I did ? And perhaps took the same route as me?
I'm looking forward to getting my MF Units back,with better components in. And posting a little review.

[zanash]

the x-dacv3 modded is a very nice sounding dac ......a little better and different from my part modded lite dac AH. The original X-dac in modded form fall way behind both these in my opinion.

I think the X-dac v3 has had an attack of the accounts dept. reducing the cost and therefore the quality of the components fitted. I can't believe any self respecting designer would say " I want those stunning Jamicon caps fitted and throw out the nasty blackgates".

I don't think the 10xv3 and x-dacv3 is a combo that works very well [though I've not the big psu ] certainly in modded form the the dac is being held back...the 10xv3 imposing its own charactor on the sound. That said the 10xv3 is not bad if a little uninvolving.....of course this in my system context and tastes.

Is it worth getting these units modded .....definately. I'm hoping the dac will suprise with it new performance, where as the 10xv3 has inproved but not by the same ammount ...IMO

[PinkFloyd]

If anyone has a DAC they want modded I'll do it free of charge just to get the "hands on" with this unit. Obviously "free of charge" means paying for parts (at cost) and postage but that shouldn't be a lot. The modded unit will feature on my DIY page.

Fair enough offer?

Mike.

[thegreatroberto]

Mike ,how about an item on your DIY page about how to breathe life back into a dead X-can V2 !
I'm sure the before and after pics of mine would be intresting reading !

[PinkFloyd]

thegreatroberto said:

Mike ,how about an item on your DIY page about how to breathe life back into a dead X-can V2 !
I'm sure the before and after pics of mine would be interesting reading !

Still not going Robert??? I'm sure I saw an e-mail from you in my gmail account but can't find it (I've been swamped with e-mail of late)

I don't know about "interesting reading" but yours would certainly make "interesting viewing" !!

The last I heard you got one channel back up and running, so you replaced the transistors?

Mike.

[thegreatroberto]

PM sent for sorry details ! ..........Too embaresed to post here !!

[rickcr42]

Coward

[Sol]

admin said:

If anyone has a DAC they want modded I'll do it free of charge just to get the "hands on" with this unit. Obviously "free of charge" means paying for parts (at cost) and postage but that shouldn't be a lot. The modded unit will feature on my DIY page.

Fair enough offer?

Mike.

Mike we've been talking about doing my X-Can V3 ... I've just got an X-10 V3, and I have an X-DAC V3. I'm overflowing with Wallwarts so have been looking at getting the X-PSU V3. So I think we have some opportunity to do a complete set of upgrades here!!

I need to remove the wallwarts from my life expecially as I found that the following filter on ebay paid huge dividens in my set up

Item number 160024296505

... so getting the filter in front of the PSU which then feeds all my MF equipment really interests me!

Why don't you mail me .. I'm sure we can do something here with mods/power supply.

[Sol]

Impulsive .. me ... never! So I got offered PSU V3 new at silly money - I had to! That completes the set! So I should ahev them all next week!

X-DAC V3 (Unmodded)
X-PSU V3 (Unmodded)
X-10 V3 (Unmodded)
X-CAN V3 (Unmodded)

So I now need more interconnects, another Rack to stand the bloody components on, and of course I also need to tell the SWMBO [1] before they arrive!

[1] She who must be obeyed!

[Fergus]

Mrarroyo,

I'm sure you've read all the posts above, so what I'm about to say will not be a great surprise.

I've been contemplating modding the X-DAC V3 for some time, having found its performance flat and disappointing. I've talked to many people (Zanash etc) who have successfully upgraded the X-DAC. I've decided to try the following.

Obviously, the crappy JAMICON general purpose caps will have to go, and replaced with the superb PANASONIC FCs. These could then be bypassed with film caps - WIMA or EVOX/RIFA (1uF/63v).

The output stage of the X-DAC contains 6 buffering op-amps: these op-amps are the "pedestrian" ne5532s. The last two of these could be changed - via a good quality 8 pin IC socket - with any suitable op-amp of your choice. I've decided to try the OPA2604 and the AD826, because of their good cash to sound ratio (OPA2604 £2.33 and AD826 £3.74). The output caps - two JAMICON non-polars - could also be upgraded to NITAIs, and again bypassed with film caps. Some have even used huge, russian mil-spec paper in oil capacitors with stunning sonic results.

Basically, the "skys the limit" with the X-DAC V3. I mean, just how far do you want to go? The diode bridge and 2 discrete diodes could be replaced with SCHOTTKYs: the 11DQ10 comes highly recommended. The ringing case could be lined with bitumen damping sheets. The internal wiring could be changed to pure silver and the sockets upgraded to high quality "Teflon insulated types." As I said, the "skys the limit."

Fergus

[PinkFloyd]

I haven't had a good sniff about under the X-DAC bonnet Fergus but, from the sounds of it she's highly tweakable. Why replace the output caps, why not remove them from the circuit altogether?

NE5532 are good chips in certain applications but you may be able to do better, worth experimenting with for sure. 2604, I'd imagine, will give you a pretty warm signature to the sound... OPA 2227 may be worth a punt as may AD-843's on Browndogs (single to dual convertor) both FETS so DC offset typically <3mV (closer to 0.00mV if hand matched) If the skies the limit then the old favourites the "OPA 627" could be tried but I'd guesstimate they'd have a pretty chocolaty signature like the 2604. I've got the entire "range" of opamps from AD / TI etc. so it may be worth buying an X-DAC just to experiment with them

Panasonic FC / FM, goes without saying, they're a staple part of any MF mod and losing the Jamicons most certainly makes a big improvement.

Has anyone got some under the bonnet shots of the X-DAC V3?? wouldn't mind a peek.

Cheers

Mike.

[rickcr42]

Better yet if a sigma-delta DAC chip is under the hood lose the entire output stage and couple the DAC chip outputs directly to the output jacks through a high quality film cap.there will be a reduction in output level but how many really NEED 2 volts out ?

This is the SOP (Standard Operating Proceedure) of high end CD Player mods that along with power supply parts upgrade (or a new ps section entirely) really cleans up the blurry indistinct sonic footprint all those opamps and filter elements cause.

Level ll would be a buffer on the ouput and transformer coupling but this icing on the above cake

[Fergus]

Here's some pics of my X-DAC V3.







Fergus

[hidac]

Hi Guys,

Following Zanash's super job on X-DAC and his detailed description, I have also decided to do major modifications on my X-DAC-V3 and X-10-V3. Since I do not live in UK, I have to DIY even if I am not an expert in this. The mods would include separated PSUs, new transformers, replacing of Ne5532 etc. I will post complete work including the pictures, just as Fergus did.

One of the changes, however give me quite a headache and few sleepless nights. The both units have on each channel exits, 100mF/16V caps that are very difficult to replace with quality units because of the high capacity. Do anybody know the reason why are these nasty things there? What happens if I replaced them with 10mF (Mundorf Supreme or similar)?

Second issue is opamp to replace Ne 5532. So many different choices. Like OPA 2134, 2604, 2227, 627. AD 843, AD 826. Which one of those could be soldered directly without using brown dogs, changing the caps and resistors?

Zanash, any opinion here?

Thanks.

[Fergus]

As far as I know, Zanash was the first person to mod the X-DAC V3. He has a vast degree of knowledge about not only this device, but the X-10 V3 (which he has extensively upgraded) and a whole range of MF gear. He's also a really great guy, willing to help you out with any problems you may have.

Like you, I'm not that good around electronics, but I'm sure any of the guys here will help you out.

The changing of the ne5532 op-amps bring with it a significant improvement in the sound. Zanash suggests that only the last two of the op-amps need to be upgraded, as these influence the sound without disturbing the workings of the DAC. Elsewhere, the OPA 2604 has been tried with excellent results. The AD 826 is even better again. See: www.zerogain.com.

Fergus

[PinkFloyd]

He's also a really great guy

Great to know and I did put his "I hope you die bastard, have a nice day" comment down to ignorance and bad manners, comforting to find he's not like that with everyone

The same Zanash who classes MF gear as "crap" or the other one who mods them and says they're the best thing since sliced bread.... hehe.

[Fergus]

Before I came to this forum, I thought MF gear was the "dog's bollocks." Now I think differently. In fact, it's actually surprising how "good" the X-Series sounds considering the cheap components they habitually use.

Have you had a look at my pics of the X-DAC. What do you think? Ripe for some mods?

Fergus