psu xcan

[fille]

hello everybody, i'm new here

some questions,

the transformer used in little pinky: is it short curcuit proof, cause i have seen on the clairtronic site that they have shortcircuit proof and non circuit proof;

otherwise i will put a fuse before it, but what fuse would i have to use ?

also: why isn't the little pinky earthed ? and also the headphone amp ? or am i just a little to paranoia ?

thanx everybody

greetings fille

[PinkFloyd]

fille said:

hello everybody, i'm new here

Hi, welcome aboard.

fille said:

the transformer used in little pinky: is it short curcuit proof, cause i have seen on the clairtronic site that they have shortcircuit proof and non circuit proof;

No. It is not short circuit proof if you want to add a fuse then you must do it at the primary side of the transformer.

fille said:

otherwise i will put a fuse before it, but what fuse would i have to use ?

Yes, you will have to put a fuse at the primary. Best type to use is a 20 x 5mm slow blow 250mA / 315mA.

fille said:

also: why isn't the little pinky earthed ? and also the headphone amp ? or am i just a little to paranoia ?

The transformer used in the LPV3 is designed, tested, approved and certified to EN60950 and CE Marked, it is also CLASS 2 (double insulated) so requires no earth. It's also housed in an ABS PSU case and all internal connections are fully insulated.

[fille]

waaauuuw, thanx so much for the information.

i have just orderd black gates for the ouput capacitor, hahah and then i read on your site that you don't like black gates, oeps, still i'm gonna punch them in it and give it weeks to burn in.

i'm gonna check if the output of the preamp is DC free, if so i will use no input cap.

i'll be back with some pictures and information.
maybe i'll put silver wire in the X can, and solder it, in stead of those snap on connectors, maybe also a stepped attenuator or a relais controlled volume pot. we'll see

ps: it is not mine x-can but that of a friend, i don't have that kind of money as a student.

byeee

[rickcr42]

The only thing in the world short circuit proof would be a single wire but that wire would do nothing until it had a "reference" point and once you have a reference point, a second wire you have a potential for a short circuit which in essence is the voltage and the ground reference contacting each other.

Once you establish that any two wires can conceivable come in contact it comes down to what happens if/when this occurs which is unlimited current draw up to whatever mechanism chokes off the exess so the path would look like "

Power station,megawatts of high voltage but still with a finite limit so with breaker systems to open up the "hot" lead thus preventing the voltage from going further

Power distribution sub-stations,power steppeddown with huge transformers to kilowatt range for distrribution : Ditto on the breakers


Local Power ditribution,the power step down transformers that deliver the final mains voltage to your home-these fkers blow up all the time so whatever protection mechanism they have someone needs to re-think it

Breaker panel where the mains enter your home and from which all your mains feeds are distributed :

The overall current rating of the box is called a "service" so if say the total amount of the box + any add-on breaker anels is 30 Amps then yoor home has a "Thirty amp Service" and it will pas no ore than the rating of the main fuse-your first line of defense in the home voltage system

Next,Each "zone" and individual high current draw appliances (furnace,washing machine,etc) will have there own circuit breaker meant to "trip" when the demand after the panel is higher than the current rating of the breaker.the reason this is broken up is so a fault condition in one area does not take out the entire house electrical system just because some knucklhead overloaded a bedroom wall outlet or Joe "I know everything so leave my ass alone" does not burn down the house while trying to hook up a home Theater system.

So up 'til now we have mains protection from the initial energy generating plant all the way to your wall outlest which leaves the shit actually plugged in.

On average you wall outlets are capable of 10 amps of current (even though your entire house may only have a 30 amp rating !) so anything over this will trip the breaker back at the breaker panel but this protects ONLY the house,not whatever is pugged in,so you can trip the breaker and still have a burned up device unless that device has self protection and that protection usually means a fuse in the "hot" line to prevent surges above the fuse rating from entering.

Modern electronic devices typically operate in the low amps or milliamps range so the 10A at the wall plug/1amp or less circuit operation means something gotta give here or you have a serious fire potential !

With electro-mechanicals it is a simple matter of finding the rating of "IT" and adding a breaker (very slow trip unless the surge is HUGE) or a slow blow fuse.Using a fast-blow here usually would mean an "open" fuse every time you turned the device on or off .

Power amplifiers and such will usually have an average current draw and a peak current draw with the "peak" part depending on the amp topology (Pure Class-A amplifiers ZERO,Class-AB can be extremely high depending on power supply reserves and how many output devices are paralleled for peak VA delivery) and with the newer topologies going damn near from zero idling current to full output dependant on the input signal or lack of.

so to fuse the above devices you can aim at expected max output and use a fast blow "quick acting" fuse to protect the amp from exessive current draw and risk popping the fuses during peak music events (or even turn on surges as the power caps charge up ) or aim at the midlle ground between average watts and peak watts then use a slow blow fuse.

since slow blow fuses will pass short bursts of current over and above their rating but "ping" with extreme over ratings (dead short) because they heat up slower your amp will be fully protected against dead short or fault conditions yet not shut down during loud music passages or during turn power supply start up charging.

for delicate electronics,usually those using integrated circuits at low power it is more of a crap shoot.even a voltage transient on the power line can take them out if the protection mechanism is slower than the event so usually this is Fast-Blow fuse territory but again,if an audio device you have a non-steady state dynamic current draw,one that tracks the music and provides what is needed moment to moment so use a fast blow with too low a rating and you will be constantly changing fuses,too much and it is off to the repair shop

My way is to guesstimate peak voltage then "ballpark" the fuse rating to the nearest stock size UP.If I find the fuses "ping" often for no valid reason (assumng the house wiring is not FUBARed ) step up a size.Being a fast blow it should open up with any dangerous line surges protecting everything after it-your gear ;D

yeah,yeah,I know.Shut up rick..............


BTW-I'm no liscenced electrician but I HAVE wired new constuction from blueprints,from the breaker panel to the wall outlets (then flipped the guy with the legit liscence a C-Note to sign off on it for the electrical inspection )

I'm also as far from an electronics engineer as a blade of grass is from a higher life form but I have a small bit of "fiddling" experience here too

bottom line-just an opinion,one I sticking with until further notice





.

[fille]

good god, what a reply, that is a lot of information,
thanx anyway, still it isn't that easy. hahah

well i would like to draw attention to a site where there are some interesting things. the man himself has tested capacitors.
there he also mentions a evox, and other caps, he bypass them with a Vishay Roederstein MKP1837 for a better sound.

anyaway just letting everybody know, the site is english so no prob.

i'm in the middle of a dilema: haha, well for input and ouput cap i have bought black gates, (it is for an x-can v3) but the man for whom i'm upgrading it, has also an x-10 and lpx, so if i have to repalce all the signal caps with black gates it is gonna cost quite a lot, maybe i need to chose something else; don't know yet

[rickcr42]

good god, what a reply, that is a lot of information,

the old "information overload" trick

some say I hold the patent on it (you don't want to know what others say ) ;D

[PinkFloyd]

fille said:

good god, what a reply, that is a lot of information,

Our resident expert Rickamundo Erecticus is second to none when it comes to detailed, in-depth, information. Take that information and use it wisely, it's genuine Rickamundo Erecticus information of that you can be guaranteed.... no imitations here my son

fille said:

well i would like to draw attention to a site where there are some interesting things.

And............. where is it then?

fille said:

the man himself has tested capacitors.

The man himself? Who is this man? what's his name? does he wear sandals and sport a beard?

fille said:

there he also mentions a evox, and other caps, he bypass them with a Vishay Roederstein MKP1837 for a better sound.

And on the fifth day did he turn water into wine?

fille said:

anyaway just letting everybody know, the site is english so no prob.

Shit! I was hoping it would have been in Hebrew.

fille said:

i'm in the middle of a dilema

Is that the same as being in the middle of a roundabout or being between a rock and a hard place?

fille said:

haha, well for input and ouput cap i have bought black gates, (it is for an x-can v3) but the man for whom i'm upgrading it, has also an x-10 and lpx, so if i have to repalce all the signal caps with black gates it is gonna cost quite a lot, maybe i need to chose something else; don't know yet

I've got a wooden gate, only requires painting once a year, it's a very good gate. I've heard black gates are good but mine are painted in a kinda mahogany colour, no complaints from the neighbours (they're sheep by the way) and the postman smiles everytime he walks through it.

[fille]

whahahaahah, hilarious

this always happens to me, saying something but forgetting to give the clue. anyway here is the site

www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

ps: i walk on sandals, grow a beard and yes i"m a
ps: i like sheeps ;D

[rickcr42]

anyway here is the site

I'm familiar with the site and mostly am in agreement with the results even though there are some type/brand omissions.

Also there is the "proper part for the proper place" part.That is how a certain capacitor may suck at signal coupling but be ideal in a power supply or as a cathode cap and visa-versa or the need for a comprimise because the better choice is either way to expensive an option or the size of the part too large for the circuit housing structure so for instance if you need a 47uf output coupling cap for good bass response into the next stage impedance you options usually come down to

A-paralleling more than one film cap until the ultimate required value is reached.will take up a serious amount of spece and WILL be very expensive

B-going to a lesser cap such as a Solen Fast Cap which is available in large values but that may also be way to large for a good fit and will be a step down in SQ

C-Using a non-Polarised Electrolytic which will be far smaller than the above options and may or may not be less expensive,may or may not be a step down from "B".Will be a step down from "A"

so never a truly all encompassing answer to the "what is the best capacitor" question without specifying in what circuit and where it is to be located in that circuit along with staing how much room is available and how deep your pockets are



**

[fille]

that is true, but euuu, i have got another site
check this one out

www.dhtrob.com/favorieten/_en.htm

benny adviced me to go with the nichicon audio muse as output cap on the xcan v3, because it is good price ratio. But since it is just a few caps money isn't that important, i mean: i would make an super e cap with black gates, it is much more expensive but still in absolute terms : it is nothing to worry about, (it is not eve my upgrade, i just have to do it). i will not put jupiter or jensen 0.01uf parallel until i have 1000uf, cause then i would have to win the lottery, hahaha.

anyway thanx a lot
greetings

[rickcr42]

aware of DHT Rob's site too man ;D

benny adviced me to go with the nichicon audio muse as output cap on the xcan v3, because it is good price ratio.

you could also try an Elna Silmic in that spot,another very good sounding cap for an electrolytic as are the Cerfines though they can get a mite pricey.Have a big mama honker on the output of my Szekeres Class-a follower

[PinkFloyd]

rickcr42 said:

aware of DHT Rob's site too man ;D

benny adviced me to go with the nichicon audio muse as output cap on the xcan v3, because it is good price ratio.

you could also try an Elna Silmic in that spot,another very good sounding cap for an electrolytic as are the Cerfines though they can get a mite pricey.Have a big mama honker on the output of my Szekeres Class-a follower

I wouldn't put a silmic or a cerafine in this position Rick, have done in the past and the sound is pretty hashy. MF fit 220uF Non polar output caps and these non polars definitely do sound better than polar types when used as output caps (IMO)

The CapXon NK series (non polar 105C) are very good used here docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0649/0900766b806497fe.pdf Sure they don't have a fancy name like Black Gate or fine gold but they're good transparent caps in this position, well worth trying and not too expensive either.

[rickcr42]

Sure they don't have a fancy name like Black Gate or fine gold but they're good transparent caps in this position, well worth trying and not too expensive either

To be honest I don't understand the hoopla over the BGs as a copling cap.I find them gritty early on then overly bright even after the long break in which goes back to gritty if the equipment is off for a long time.

The Elmas,both Silmics and Cerfines are so far the only electrolytics that sounded half decent in the 1,000uF size DC blocker on the Szekeres and why suggested though probably whipped by other caps in smaller sizes,something I can't say I know using film caps for all other coulping which usually is no higher than 10uF leaving a huge gap in between of uncharted territory (for me anyway ).

Truth is though even in a power supply a film cap whips an electrolytic hands down so it is only size and cost that keep electrolytics in the mix or they would be not even considered for audio work.

[PinkFloyd]

I've always been a GREAT lover / fan of Dubilier capacitors...... There, I said it! Tar and feather me, I don't care... they're rarely even mentioned in the audio circles with licence to print money caps like Black Gate being centre stage.

[rickcr42]

Granted and gladly !

[justin]

rickcr42 said:

Sure they don't have a fancy name like Black Gate or fine gold but they're good transparent caps in this position, well worth trying and not too expensive either

To be honest I don't understand the hoopla over the BGs as a copling cap.I find them gritty early on then overly bright even after the long break in which goes back to gritty if the equipment is off for a long time.

The Elmas,both Silmics and Cerfines are so far the only electrolytics that sounded half decent in the 1,000uF size DC blocker on the Szekeres and why suggested though probably whipped by other caps in smaller sizes,something I can't say I know using film caps for all other coulping which usually is no higher than 10uF leaving a huge gap in between of uncharted territory (for me anyway ).

Truth is though even in a power supply a film cap whips an electrolytic hands down so it is only size and cost that keep electrolytics in the mix or they would be not even considered for audio work.

Rick,

I posted these on Head-Fi in a black gate discussion but there was little interest. I thought the empirical data would be useful. This is from one of Douglas Self's books.

[rickcr42]

I posted these on Head-Fi in a black gate discussion but there was little interest

I don't "do" Head-Fi any longer but if I DID I would have shown interest in the thread-up until it became nasty anyway

Sort of coincides with what i hear.Electrolytics are my LAST choice in a coupling cap until the size of the cap becomes so large in value for good DC response that there is no truly vaible alternative unless I want to build a very expensive parallel film cap "box" the size of my mailbox.

For me this is no real-world alternative,especially when the cost of quality film caps in multiples is considered and if not using good ones then would be a wasteful excercise just to do it anyway.

I thought the empirical data would be useful.

The are,thanks.

I don't personally always agree with D.Self conclusions but you can't argue the data,interpretation yes,the data no,so it is never a bad thing to be armed with all the information available on a certain topic that can be the basis for the final arbiter-listening

then trying somehow to understand the correlation between the data and the subjective and once you identify the parts that happen to work well from the graphs try and use that comparitive for future decisions in a like situation.so the short of it is capacitor data combuned with what sounds good allows a person to pick a part simply on the specs and pretty much have a ballpark idea how it will sound even before actually hearing it,if that makes any damn sense

rickamundo

[rickcr42]

oopsy ! forgot to add

"time to get some of those BC Aeroxox caps and see if what the graph implies actually carries over to the subjective evaluation"

I have two "in house" single ended Class-A amps,a transformer coupled "Double ZEN" that I can flip a switch for parallel or balanced operation,and a Mongo Szekeres Class-A follower,both having a big DC blocking electrolytic on the output so are excellant test beds since being long term resisdent in my system i have a good idea how they sound ;D