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Post by jelosno on Sept 27, 2006 14:17:58 GMT
There is a boatload of information about the various volume controls/attenuators.
There's Noble, Alps Blue, Alps Black (Beauty) several TKDs and others.
Is there really such a big audible difference between all those?
Stefan
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Post by PinkFloyd on Sept 27, 2006 16:46:21 GMT
There is a boatload of information about the various volume controls/attenuators. There's Noble, Alps Blue, Alps Black (Beauty) several TKDs and others. Is there really such a big audible difference between all those? Stefan They've all got their own "house sound" but the audible differences are extremely subtle and certainly not night and day. Generally speaking the better quality the pot the better channel matching you get. The ALPS RK27, for example, have very precise gang error and resistance taper and they generally measure very well indeed. Something like a cheap OMEG, on the other hand, tends not to measure so well and you could end up going through about 20 of them to find one that matches up precisely.... fine if you've got a load at your disposal but if you're wanting to just buy one pot that measures precisely then you're looking at paying a bit more.
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rickcr42
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Post by rickcr42 on Sept 29, 2006 3:21:16 GMT
I use PEC or Alpha for all things audio and yes,there is a definitive "house" sound for all just like there is a sound differential between fixed resistors and like with resistors some are more disimiliar than they are alike and some have a more music freindly tone while others an "electronics" sound. I personally try to shoot for tone in passive parts selection and while some call this a euphonic coloration (hence to be avoided) my contention is it is no different than what is known as an "accurate: sonic footprint which is ALSO a coloration but just to a different end of the sonic spectrum. I do and have always wondered why so many feel a need to have a guilt trip over a part that sounds good and would rather beat their own ass using an inferior part because of some group acceptance theory on what is accurate.Why should sterile sound or etched sonics be the only way to "correct" ? Is music sterile ? Can be but is not what I personally want to hear after a long day.i get enough machine sound using power tools all frikkin' day bottom line for me is to measure well yet sound like music though given a choice between tech specs and sonics i tend to the musical side and with pots you get pretty much across the board identical measurements yet sonics from "cold" to "warm" plus everything in between so personal preference combined with the actual circuit "tone" comes into play making my personal best maybe the last choice for another listener in a different circuit topology of even if identical using other choices in actual parts-each with its own sonic signature added.you need at times (read-MOST times ) to Ying/yang a circuit to compensate for tendencies and in the process avoid all music no matter what the style or performer taking on a playback system tonal imprint,allowing the performance to either suck or be great on its own. a tall order but to be honest if something sounds like crap because of choices made in the studio they should sound like crap but if they get it right the system should get the fk out of the way and let the music out-a tall order and one if i had all the answers to would be sitting on my yacht in the carribean typing this on my wiring laptop while the beauties stood by ready to climb over each other to please me......................not that i would be in any shape for indoor sports once my wife found out
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rickcr42
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Rest in peace my good friend.
Posts: 4,514
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Post by rickcr42 on Sept 30, 2006 17:32:50 GMT
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Post by jelosno on Sept 30, 2006 21:55:51 GMT
Interesting link.
I had to stop reading at page 20 cause it went a little off topic...
Stefan
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rickcr42
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Rest in peace my good friend.
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Post by rickcr42 on Oct 1, 2006 3:04:47 GMT
straying from topic happens a lot in very active forums or threads (guilty myself many times ) as does personal conflict or ego but there is some good content sprinkled in.Consider it like weeding and pruning a garden to get the plant to bear fruit/flowers. If you do a google on "PEC Potentiometer" you will bring up enough content to get a sense of the sonics and build quality as well as the one big flaw-dual pot tracking This last does not effect me mostly because A-I use dual monos whenever possible rather than a single dual section volume control B-When I must use a stereo pot like with my line level mixer/summer master and monitor volume controls they are used in the area of the pot where tracking is at its best-10:00 up.This goes to selecting my gain stages to suit my needs in my system rather than having so much gain i need serious attenuation at the volum pot to maintain a usable volume level.Any equipment that is always used at close to full volume attenuation has too much gain and uses the control where it operates at its worst. Some use the PEC linear taper dual pots with "law faking" resistors to simulate a logarithmic curve but I can't report on how it works in actual usehaving zero experience with the type. I place a high priority on my switch and "variable resistor" sonics because my entire system is modular with ALL controls in their own passive control boxes followed by bypassable active maeup gain or line driving boxes depending on what I am doing plus all power supplies are seprate units with at most an on/off switch. Because I can many times my signal path will be source device/passive control center/amplifier section (speaker of heaphone),final transducer (actual loudspeaker or headphones) If I need to drive a line to a remote amp or from one system to another I punch in a line driver.If I feel my gain is lacking (thin bass,strained or weak dynamics) I pop in a gain stage.Usually this is due to having another passive "lossy" device in the path such as a tone control box,a crossfeed or my passive headphone surround sound device which when used in combination with my passive preamp can rob the dynamic life from the music when played at med low levels though not a problem at higher SPLs. When your path is purely passive between source and amp you learn to appreciate the role those parts play and when you consider a preamp is no more than a passive control section mated to a gain stage and a power or headphone amp again passive controls (if any) fronting the actual driving circuits it is apparent they play an important role.One that increases in importance as you lower the overall levels or listen to the quite passages in a musical performance. Most active circuits are good conceptually no matter what the topology so in my opinion it is the supporting cast that makes or breaks the sonic quality/perceived musical enjoyment level
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Post by PinkFloyd on Oct 1, 2006 9:30:46 GMT
Whatever pot you do end up with jelosno you can be sure that someone, somewhere, will tell you "you could have done better" just the same as when you buy something for £50 there's always the guy who says "£50?? you were robbed! I could have got you one for half that price"
I wouldn't get too pedantic about pots, a good cheap carbon track that is well matched may well be just as good as and all singing, all dancing "audiophile" pot costing 100 times the price. I've got an old early 1970's receiver out in the garage with the stock el cheapo ALPS carbon pot in it, sounds gorgeous and has been in heavy use for almost 35 years (subjected to abuse / temperature extremes as well may I add) there are many who would have you belive that carbon pots are a big "no no" and conductive plastic or stepped attenuators are the "only" way to go...... hogwash.
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rickcr42
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Rest in peace my good friend.
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Post by rickcr42 on Oct 2, 2006 4:05:34 GMT
PEC's and Alpha's are carbon pots and like carbon resistors play music (at least that is my opinion and I'm sticking to it until beaten senseless by a hoard of baseball bat weilding literalists and forced to comply with their opposing view ) BTW-being branded "Alps" is no gurantee of better quality than a typical off the shelf Radio Shack "rebranded" Alps because the company has literally hundereds of potentiometer/vareiable resistor models and not all are up to audio duties. In fact up until my self imposed Radio Shack boycot I used the R.S./Alps dual 100K for all my portable amps for around five years even though the part-to-part consistancy is variable and I had to cherry pick the ones with good left/right tracking.
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FritzS
Been here a while!
Sound of Blue Danube
Sound of Blue Danube
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Post by FritzS on Oct 6, 2006 8:25:24 GMT
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rickcr42
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Rest in peace my good friend.
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Post by rickcr42 on Oct 8, 2006 0:16:49 GMT
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