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Post by garycake on Feb 21, 2008 14:40:00 GMT
Hello,
I just read something about that russ andrews he swears by telling us to attenuate the signal between your cd player and amplifier he charges a ludicrous £96 for a pair of attenuaters he says that the output on cds is far too high for the amplifier and therefore the cd sound as got a grab you by the throat sound with limited dynamic range just wondered if you guys see any truth in his advice and if so could i just open the cd plyer up and put 2 resistors on the audio outputs thus cutting out the plugs all together obviously i would not buy them off that rogue
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Post by theadmans on Feb 21, 2008 15:44:33 GMT
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lini
Been here a while! 
Groanings from Han(g)over
Posts: 191
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Post by lini on Feb 21, 2008 16:06:59 GMT
Gary: Apparent rip-off price of the product aside, my comment would be: mostly bullshit.
Granted, though, there are cases in which line attenuators can be really helpful - e.g. when connecting a modern cdp to a vintage amp with DIN inputs, 'cause DIN line levels were quite a bit below the modern line level standard of ~ 2 V.
Greetings from Munich!
Manfred / lini
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Nigel
Been here a while!
Watching over Gotham City keeping us safe
Posts: 2,064
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Post by Nigel on Feb 21, 2008 17:19:34 GMT
I recently bought a pair of attenuators of ebay. Conclusion - much better use of the volume control, no eight o'clock too loud syndrome. Unfortunately at reduced sound quality though. The top end disappears, never to be heard again.
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rickcr42
Fully Modded
Rest in peace my good friend.
Posts: 4,514
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Post by rickcr42 on Feb 21, 2008 23:29:32 GMT
www.sowter.co.uk/specs/4383.htmflip it around so it goes from being a 600 Ohm-10K SUT (Step up transformer) to a 10K-600 Ohm SDT (Step DOWN Transformer  ) best way I know to reduce levels without any "actual" detrimental consequences with the added benfit of getting galvanic digital ground isolation so you both better match other sources in your playback system (prevents you having to change the volume level when going from one source to another) AND by isolating the digital ground feed will/should gain more "audio black" background between songs and/or low level passages where digital really is a second rate medium when compared to (good) analog because that is where you have the least amount of "bits" and why noise is actually ADDED to the signal to delineate the cyclic nature of the noise (analog is random noise,digital not being MACHINE noise ) we won't get into the other end of the dB scale,the DIGITAL DEATH NOTE : Digital 0dB because there isn't DICK we can do about that part........
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XTRProf
Fully Modded
Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
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Post by XTRProf on Feb 22, 2008 9:09:31 GMT
What Russ said was partially correct as there 2 types of cdps. One is meant for line stage active pre and another is meant for passive pre. But the attenuators at €96/pr is just ridiculous. That will be enough for me to build a passive pre that can sound better than an active pre.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2008 10:32:51 GMT
Yes, provided that the passive pre is virtually sitting on top of the amplifier! It suffers from virtually the same drawbacks as a valve preamplifer, except for all the even order harmonic distortion.
It has much greater rolloff with frequency than a valve amplifier WRT output lead capacitance and length.
SandyK
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2008 10:38:14 GMT
Garycake
You would be far better off putting an extra input on the amplifier, switched with a double pole double throw (DPDT) toggle switch, and put the 2 resistors there. Many preamplifiers attenuate the CD input by this method.
SandyK
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Post by rossman on Feb 22, 2008 15:16:29 GMT
Hello, I just read something about that russ andrews he swears by telling us to attenuate the signal between your cd player and amplifier he charges a ludicrous £96 for a pair of attenuaters he says that the output on cds is far too high for the amplifier and therefore the cd sound as got a grab you by the throat sound with limited dynamic range just wondered if you guys see any truth in his advice and if so could i just open the cd plyer up and put 2 resistors on the audio outputs thus cutting out the plugs all together obviously i would not buy them off that rogue Gary, I have a pair of attenuators that I could lend you if you just want to try some out. They are just lying in my spares box at the moment. I have to agree with Nigel about the SQ though, still the offer's there if you would like to try. |
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rickcr42
Fully Modded
Rest in peace my good friend.
Posts: 4,514
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Post by rickcr42 on Feb 22, 2008 16:41:38 GMT
Yes, provided that the passive pre is virtually sitting on top of the amplifier! It suffers from virtually the same drawbacks as a valve preamplifer, except for all the even order harmonic distortion. It has much greater rolloff with frequency than a valve amplifier WRT output lead capacitance and length. SandyK Depends really on the quality of your interlinks and the input Z of the amp.My way is to go the "best of both worlds" route so while my "preamp' is a passive device (with built in 1:1 isolating line level transformers ) the three outputs go to : 1-A dedicated 6SN7 cascade gain stage (being re-worked so all the tubes are "inside the box" and with the power supply external to the audio circuits 2-my "Passive Assist" unity gain high current line driver/buffer 3-A dedicated headphone amp (none currently ) If I have enough gain to drive the 'whatever the fk it is jerky" then I go to direct passive mode (the buffer has a bypass mode ),if driving an amp with low gain (ALL my amps  ) then it is the gain stage output and if going "Headphones only zone" then it is off to my "whatever it will be" amp which is leaning to a zero gain 6V6 "triode mode" single ended design. Toss in the fact that i have also the tape loop (with rec out defeat so the signal path is not loaded when not in use) AND an EPL (external processing loop) I pretty much have 100% control over the what and where and whens of my system with the added bonus of i don't have to scrap the entire shooting mnatch to upgrade/change one thing I am not happy with (working on a "mini passive" for the bench because it makes for a great test bed function switch ) Gain matching and equipment sensitivity combined with simple to use without the volume either being shouty or a fkn whisper you strain to hear when switching sources is very important to me personally...... Rickmongo |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2008 19:58:15 GMT
Rick Why don't you see how much Mike can extract out of that 20 GBP kit from Jaycar ? If his results are favourable, perhaps we can drag you, kicking and screaming, into this century ?  . You have a tremendous knowledge of the subject, but you seem to be in a time warp! Hey, don't take me too seriously, O.K. ? ;D You wouldn't beat the crap out of a a senior citizen, even if he was a big mouthed smart arse, would you ? |
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leo
Been here a while!
Team wtf is it?
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Post by leo on Feb 22, 2008 21:11:49 GMT
You trying to drag Rick over to the dark side ;D
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)
) then it is the gain stage output and if going "Headphones only zone" then it is off to my "whatever it will be" amp which is leaning to a zero gain 6V6 "triode mode" single ended design.
. You have a tremendous knowledge of the subject, but you seem to be in a time warp!