Arcam FMJ CD23 or Cambridge Azure 840c?
Nov 19, 2007 17:56:55 GMT
Post by 2knowtalent on Nov 19, 2007 17:56:55 GMT
I currently own the CD23 and am quite happy with it BUT I'm looking for something that provides greater detail and drive...
The 840c seems to get some pretty good reviews but I'm thinking that there's no way in hell a $1400 player is going to outperform a $2300 player (skewed logic)....
So I'm wondering how the modern DSP/DAC combo of the 840c will compare against the Ring DAC CD23?
Head to head, is the CD23 "better" than the new 840c??
Would a modded CD23 smoke the factory 840c or the modded 840c???
also, there is a UK company that offers upgrade kits for both.
840c Mods...
The Cambridge Audio 840C is the companies statement CD player, pitched at a price that is firmly mid-priced but designed to achieve high-end status. Certainly when you buy in to a Cambridge Audio product like the 840C you are not only getting exceptional value but some rather clever engineering. In fact the 840C’s technical abilities for the price are outstanding; ponder over the rigidly constructed optical mechanism, marvel at the 16-bit 44.1 kHz CD data to 24-bit 384kHz upsampling and don’t forget the 15 stages of regulated power supplies, DC servo circuitry with no capacitors in the signal path.
So when it comes to fighting of the competition how does its fair? Well at 800 pounds sterling there is little or nothing to touch it at the price, but spend £300 - £400 more and it starts to get a bit out of its depths. In a recent magazine review it came second place in a £1000 CD super test.
Despite its superb engineering and sophistication it is not all things to all men, accused of sounding possibly boring, the 840C never quite manages to stir enough excitement and can sound lacklustre, softly defined, and vague around the edges. While the bass quantity is aplenty it is at times ponderous, even bloated.
With such technology, there are masses of untapped sound to be had from the 840C’s clever circuits. Rid the player of its dozens of general purpose capacitors, replace the stock oscillator with an ultra-low jitter clock partnered with a dedicated power supply and revamp the analogue filter & line stage and the player catapults forward in sound and slipstreams way ahead of the competition.
Audiocom have the recipe to transform the 840C into a stunning CD spinner. We have 2 levels of modifications available plus the option of Deep Cryogenic Treatment (DCT) for the Servo V2.0 & Audio/Power boards. The level-1 upgrades installs 25 new components including the Superclock 4-S ultra-low jitter clock, Black Gate NX de-coupling capacitors & LM4562 op-amps for the line buffer stage. The more comprehensive level-2 upgrade installs 76 new components that include the Superclock 4-S ultra-low jitter clock, dedicated Superclock 4 ultra-low noise clock power supply, the superb LM4562 op-amps for the analogue filter and line output stage, Black Gate NX &N DAC de-coupling, DAC reference /filter capacitors, etc.
Cambridge Audio AZUR 840C Upgrades. (GBP 250.00 inclusive)
AZUR 840C Level-1 Upgrades.
1. 1x Panasonic FC power supply reservoir capacitor.
2. 4x IR Schottky diodes for digital PCB servo power supply.
3. 2x Rubycon ZL regulator bypass capacitors.
4. 1x Superclock 4-S ultra-low jitter master clock.
5. 7x Rubycon ZA analogue regulator bypass capacitors.
6. 4x Sanyo OS-CON analogue regulator bypass capacitors.
7. 4x Black Gate NX Hi-Q DAC de-coupling capacitors.
8. 2x LM4562 op-amps to replace OPA2134 for line buffer stage.
9. WBT 4% Silver solder used throughout.
AZUR 840C Level-2 Upgrades. Additional upgrades & updates over Level 1. (GBP 550.00 inclusive)
1. 1x Superclock 4 Ultra-low noise clock power supply.
2. 8 x Sanyo OS-CON capacitors for upgrading digital processing.
3. 6x Rubycon ZA/ZL capacitors for upgrading digital processing.
4. 8x IR Schottky diodes for Upsampling /DAC PCB digital power supply.
5. 10x Rubycon ZA digital regulator bypass capacitors.
6. 6x Sanyo OS-CON digital regulator bypass capacitors.
7. 6x Sanyo OS-CON digital de-coupling capacitors.
8. 4x Black Gate N DAC reference /output filter capacitors.
9. 2x LM4562 op-amps to replace OPA2134 for filter stage.
10. WBT 4% Silver solder used throughout.
CD23 Mods...
It was the Summer of 1987 when the first Arcam CD player hit the market, the Arcam Delta 70 CD sold for a cool £495.95. What made the Delta 70 distinguished from much of the competition was the 70 was designed from the ground up. No Philips, Sanyo or Marantz CD players dismantled and used as the CD player basis, and this decision cost Arcam £25,000 to license Compact Disc.
13 years down the road and the Arcam philosophies still hold strong. So what does the Great, Great...Grandson of the Delta 70 do in digital terms? Absolute Sound magazine summed up the FMJ CD23 as "a remarkable machine; and what most makes it special can be summed up in two words: inner detail."
We agree that the CD23 strengths are in the detail it extracts all types of recorded music, piecing them together in a coherent and defined manner. The CD23 is capable of creating a believable sound-stage with a high level of poise and expression, without the clutter and ill timing heard in competing players.
Weaknesses? The CD23 can often sound tonally lean, with a degree of thinness to the upper bass and mid-band. The lower frequencies while defined and well controlled never manage the power and energy when called for leaving certain recording understated.
Having previously had excellent results with modifying the Arcam Alpha 9 CD player it seemed inevitable that modifications to the CD23 would follow. Both share similar designs, with the CD23 seeing upgrades to the power supply & refinements to the Ring DAC system.
The CD23 Comes of Age.
The CD23 is essentially made up of two PCB’s, the main power supply & digital PCB, then the audio circuitry PCB is fixed to an aluminium plate and held upside down on top of the main PCB. The Level-1 modification upgrades the main PCB digital & analogue power supplies, employing Black Gate NX for the analogue power supply. Regulator bypass & local digital de-coupling capacitors are also replaced for Rubycon ZA types.
The OEM master clock is a single transistor discrete design, evidently better than the poor quality CMOS inverter based clocks seen in other CD players regardless of price. We were keen to hear how the Superclock 4-S (SC4) would perform in the CD23 and made this upgrade in isolation and listened.
We were keen to hear how the Superclock 4-S (SC4) would perform in the CD23 and made this upgrade in isolation and listened. We can report that this new clock improves significantly upon OEM oscillator. Most notable is the increase in sound-stage depth and projection, a more flowing, organic, relaxing sense of the music. There's more detail, truth of pitch & timbre, bass delineation.
Tonally the CD23 looses that degree of hardness, leanness heard in the OEM player, with SC4-S the tonal balance has a natural warmth and organic flow which makes listening for longer periods fatigue free. Bass is more sure footed, with added energy and power to ensure that the lower registers are more convincing.
Next we turned our hands to the audio board; input bypass electrolytic de-coupling capacitors are replaced with Black Gate FK type. 5 general purpose bi-polar capacitors in the DCS Ring DAC stage are replaced with Black Gate N type, a critical stage which benefits considerably from the extremely low distortion and low noise offered by this premium grade capacitor. Selected polyester film capacitors in the post DAC analogue stage are replaced with Black Gate NX Hi-Q. The OEM selected op-amps for filter are OP275 and the buffer uses the Burr Brown OPA2134, a 7 year old op-amp designed specifically for audio. The OPA2134 offers mediocre performance, with a laid back, lacklustre sound which tends to soften and veil the sound.
In this final part of the level-1modification we replace the buffer op-amps with the new LM4562 from National Semiconductor. The LM4562 is an op-amp to love, if reading spec sheets gets you going then check the excellent 120db PSRR or the vanishing low 0.00003% THD, the 4562 is the closest to no op-amp we have heard in a long time.
Listening to the modified Audio board even prior to any significant ‘burn-in’ time for components was immediate and clear that the CD23’s sound was now far more accomplished. The harmonic extension on piano notes is simply fabulous, as is transparency of voices. The LM4562 uncovers detailing in recordings that went unnoticed with the OPA2134; you can hear the breath hitting the mic, arranging of instruments, atmospheric noises, which make the music real, lifelike.
Modding the CD23 would be a helluva lot cheaper!!!
The 840c seems to get some pretty good reviews but I'm thinking that there's no way in hell a $1400 player is going to outperform a $2300 player (skewed logic)....
So I'm wondering how the modern DSP/DAC combo of the 840c will compare against the Ring DAC CD23?
Head to head, is the CD23 "better" than the new 840c??
Would a modded CD23 smoke the factory 840c or the modded 840c???
also, there is a UK company that offers upgrade kits for both.
840c Mods...
The Cambridge Audio 840C is the companies statement CD player, pitched at a price that is firmly mid-priced but designed to achieve high-end status. Certainly when you buy in to a Cambridge Audio product like the 840C you are not only getting exceptional value but some rather clever engineering. In fact the 840C’s technical abilities for the price are outstanding; ponder over the rigidly constructed optical mechanism, marvel at the 16-bit 44.1 kHz CD data to 24-bit 384kHz upsampling and don’t forget the 15 stages of regulated power supplies, DC servo circuitry with no capacitors in the signal path.
So when it comes to fighting of the competition how does its fair? Well at 800 pounds sterling there is little or nothing to touch it at the price, but spend £300 - £400 more and it starts to get a bit out of its depths. In a recent magazine review it came second place in a £1000 CD super test.
Despite its superb engineering and sophistication it is not all things to all men, accused of sounding possibly boring, the 840C never quite manages to stir enough excitement and can sound lacklustre, softly defined, and vague around the edges. While the bass quantity is aplenty it is at times ponderous, even bloated.
With such technology, there are masses of untapped sound to be had from the 840C’s clever circuits. Rid the player of its dozens of general purpose capacitors, replace the stock oscillator with an ultra-low jitter clock partnered with a dedicated power supply and revamp the analogue filter & line stage and the player catapults forward in sound and slipstreams way ahead of the competition.
Audiocom have the recipe to transform the 840C into a stunning CD spinner. We have 2 levels of modifications available plus the option of Deep Cryogenic Treatment (DCT) for the Servo V2.0 & Audio/Power boards. The level-1 upgrades installs 25 new components including the Superclock 4-S ultra-low jitter clock, Black Gate NX de-coupling capacitors & LM4562 op-amps for the line buffer stage. The more comprehensive level-2 upgrade installs 76 new components that include the Superclock 4-S ultra-low jitter clock, dedicated Superclock 4 ultra-low noise clock power supply, the superb LM4562 op-amps for the analogue filter and line output stage, Black Gate NX &N DAC de-coupling, DAC reference /filter capacitors, etc.
Cambridge Audio AZUR 840C Upgrades. (GBP 250.00 inclusive)
AZUR 840C Level-1 Upgrades.
1. 1x Panasonic FC power supply reservoir capacitor.
2. 4x IR Schottky diodes for digital PCB servo power supply.
3. 2x Rubycon ZL regulator bypass capacitors.
4. 1x Superclock 4-S ultra-low jitter master clock.
5. 7x Rubycon ZA analogue regulator bypass capacitors.
6. 4x Sanyo OS-CON analogue regulator bypass capacitors.
7. 4x Black Gate NX Hi-Q DAC de-coupling capacitors.
8. 2x LM4562 op-amps to replace OPA2134 for line buffer stage.
9. WBT 4% Silver solder used throughout.
AZUR 840C Level-2 Upgrades. Additional upgrades & updates over Level 1. (GBP 550.00 inclusive)
1. 1x Superclock 4 Ultra-low noise clock power supply.
2. 8 x Sanyo OS-CON capacitors for upgrading digital processing.
3. 6x Rubycon ZA/ZL capacitors for upgrading digital processing.
4. 8x IR Schottky diodes for Upsampling /DAC PCB digital power supply.
5. 10x Rubycon ZA digital regulator bypass capacitors.
6. 6x Sanyo OS-CON digital regulator bypass capacitors.
7. 6x Sanyo OS-CON digital de-coupling capacitors.
8. 4x Black Gate N DAC reference /output filter capacitors.
9. 2x LM4562 op-amps to replace OPA2134 for filter stage.
10. WBT 4% Silver solder used throughout.
CD23 Mods...
It was the Summer of 1987 when the first Arcam CD player hit the market, the Arcam Delta 70 CD sold for a cool £495.95. What made the Delta 70 distinguished from much of the competition was the 70 was designed from the ground up. No Philips, Sanyo or Marantz CD players dismantled and used as the CD player basis, and this decision cost Arcam £25,000 to license Compact Disc.
13 years down the road and the Arcam philosophies still hold strong. So what does the Great, Great...Grandson of the Delta 70 do in digital terms? Absolute Sound magazine summed up the FMJ CD23 as "a remarkable machine; and what most makes it special can be summed up in two words: inner detail."
We agree that the CD23 strengths are in the detail it extracts all types of recorded music, piecing them together in a coherent and defined manner. The CD23 is capable of creating a believable sound-stage with a high level of poise and expression, without the clutter and ill timing heard in competing players.
Weaknesses? The CD23 can often sound tonally lean, with a degree of thinness to the upper bass and mid-band. The lower frequencies while defined and well controlled never manage the power and energy when called for leaving certain recording understated.
Having previously had excellent results with modifying the Arcam Alpha 9 CD player it seemed inevitable that modifications to the CD23 would follow. Both share similar designs, with the CD23 seeing upgrades to the power supply & refinements to the Ring DAC system.
The CD23 Comes of Age.
The CD23 is essentially made up of two PCB’s, the main power supply & digital PCB, then the audio circuitry PCB is fixed to an aluminium plate and held upside down on top of the main PCB. The Level-1 modification upgrades the main PCB digital & analogue power supplies, employing Black Gate NX for the analogue power supply. Regulator bypass & local digital de-coupling capacitors are also replaced for Rubycon ZA types.
The OEM master clock is a single transistor discrete design, evidently better than the poor quality CMOS inverter based clocks seen in other CD players regardless of price. We were keen to hear how the Superclock 4-S (SC4) would perform in the CD23 and made this upgrade in isolation and listened.
We were keen to hear how the Superclock 4-S (SC4) would perform in the CD23 and made this upgrade in isolation and listened. We can report that this new clock improves significantly upon OEM oscillator. Most notable is the increase in sound-stage depth and projection, a more flowing, organic, relaxing sense of the music. There's more detail, truth of pitch & timbre, bass delineation.
Tonally the CD23 looses that degree of hardness, leanness heard in the OEM player, with SC4-S the tonal balance has a natural warmth and organic flow which makes listening for longer periods fatigue free. Bass is more sure footed, with added energy and power to ensure that the lower registers are more convincing.
Next we turned our hands to the audio board; input bypass electrolytic de-coupling capacitors are replaced with Black Gate FK type. 5 general purpose bi-polar capacitors in the DCS Ring DAC stage are replaced with Black Gate N type, a critical stage which benefits considerably from the extremely low distortion and low noise offered by this premium grade capacitor. Selected polyester film capacitors in the post DAC analogue stage are replaced with Black Gate NX Hi-Q. The OEM selected op-amps for filter are OP275 and the buffer uses the Burr Brown OPA2134, a 7 year old op-amp designed specifically for audio. The OPA2134 offers mediocre performance, with a laid back, lacklustre sound which tends to soften and veil the sound.
In this final part of the level-1modification we replace the buffer op-amps with the new LM4562 from National Semiconductor. The LM4562 is an op-amp to love, if reading spec sheets gets you going then check the excellent 120db PSRR or the vanishing low 0.00003% THD, the 4562 is the closest to no op-amp we have heard in a long time.
Listening to the modified Audio board even prior to any significant ‘burn-in’ time for components was immediate and clear that the CD23’s sound was now far more accomplished. The harmonic extension on piano notes is simply fabulous, as is transparency of voices. The LM4562 uncovers detailing in recordings that went unnoticed with the OPA2134; you can hear the breath hitting the mic, arranging of instruments, atmospheric noises, which make the music real, lifelike.
Modding the CD23 would be a helluva lot cheaper!!!
