Platters, mats and other matters

[fanboi]

When I first got my Rega P2 around 12 months ago the previous owner had already changed the platter from the mdf original to the glass one as fitted to the P3 (and earlier on the P2 also) and had fitted an Extreme Phono platter mat in place of the standard felt one.
He had also fitted an aftermarket counterweight and stub and it was fitted with a Dynavector 10x5 HOMC cartridge.
I received the original platter and mat with the T/T when I bought it in addition to the above mentioned upgrades.
Naturally I had to give them a try.
The result being that I went back to the glass platter and EP mat.
At that time I had a Denon DL110 fitted to a Sansui DD and while I liked the sound it was apparent that the arm was struggling with controlling that low compliance cartridge.
All that was OK for a while until upgradeitis set in, as it will.
The Era Gold came to my place to stay, then I wanted a tonearm wiring upgrade which resulted in an entire Tecnoarm, when that came, I fitted the Denon to the Tecnoarm in the Rega and in combination with the EGV was thrilled to bits.
Not content with that, I was reading good things about acrylic platters and TBH, I was not that impressed with the flimsy plastic sub platter either.
I discovered the Groovetracer sub platter and acrylic platter, they really looked the business, so they came home too and were duly installed along with a Michell record clamp which could now be used on the nice spindle of the GT sub platter.
Generally speaking, at that time, records sounded best when directly on the acrylic platter and clamped.
But, I tend to see things and want to try them, so an Extreme Phono "speed" mat came home.
Net result, back to the bare acrylic, any other combination seemed to lose something in the translation.
Next item fitted, an SRM tech "silent base", motor bearing & bearing damping sleeve.
Of course I had to try their thin silicone mat too.
The base etc are good, they had the added advantage of increasing the height which allowed clearance for the arm cables which on the Tecnoarm are straight down and require more clearance under the plinth than afforded by the standard rubber feet.
I had had to support the feet on wood blocks initially.
Tests of all mat combinations with this new support system came back to that the bare acrylic platter sounded the best to me, an opinion shared by a number of TT manufacturers who had gone there before, but sometimes you just have to find out for yourself.
The Boston Acoustic mat looked interesting but for the entry fee.
I bought another cartridge, a DL103 and a step-up transformer for a little less than that and after some head scratching and forum searching got it all to play very nicely thank you.
Preferred set up still the bare acrylic and clamp.
Then I read about the Funk Firm Achromat and all the palaver sounded enticing and the entry fee not too high, so one of those arrived chez moi this morning.
This one is the business, at least it seems so ATM after several hours of trying the same records with it and without it and a brief revisit of the EP Speed mat.
The Speed mat, none-felt combo seems to create a blurring effect, particularly on massed instruments, whilst definitely damping the effect is muffling, the bare acrylic still appreciably better than it.
The Achromat goes a step beyond, providing clearer separation of massed instruments, deeper bass and seems to improve dynamics.
Particularly listening with headphones and not touching the volume knob between tests with and without, on Beethovens Concerto for violin and orchestra I gained a distinct impression of increased volume, which would, one imagines, be the result of increased cartridge output and tends to support the claims of surface resonance reduction allowing better tracing of the groove.
Some of the bass improvement may be due to altered VTA which, due to other reasons, may have been a little "tail high" on the bare platter and is now virtually horizontal to marginally "tail down".
The best sign is that comparisons and critical listening have more or less stopped and I am just putting on one record after another to see what they sound like.
I think a Beethoven 6 might be nice about now
BTW it is the 5mm thick Achromat I am using.
All findings "to my ears", "in my system", YMMV

[rowuk]

"The best sign is that comparisons and critical listening have more or less stopped and I am just putting on one record after another to see what they sound like."
That to me is what this hobby is all about_enough technology to help you forget it was ever there - immersion into the MUSIC. Congratulations!

"I think a Beethoven 6 might be nice about now"
Christopher Hogwood and the Academy of Ancient Music has an EXCELLENT reading of this and the recording sounds very natural too! They play on historical instruments so the sound is considerably different than the standard recordings. Tempi and dynamics are first rate!

[cyreg]

Hi Nigel (as a moderator), I have a proposel for you.
Please copy and/or move your threadstart and replies 11, 12, 13, 14, 19, 20, 30 from "Dark side of the Moon" at "Your single best ever component purchase" to this thread.
After that we can probably have a nice follow up talk on TT's , tweaks etc. and more enjoy and learn from the replies of GS.
You can delete this reply of course. Thanks Han

[cyreg]

Hi Tony, hope you don't mind my above request to Nigel?
I think it would be nice to have some vinyl issues together.
Maybe even in it's own thread-place within "other equipment"?
Just a thought.

You started out with a very interesting story about your tweaks.
I looked up a few for me unknown subjects, like SRM tech stuff.
It must have cost you alot of money, but as I can read AND understand, it's also a lot of fun going that route. I used to do that for 25 years, with my Thorens TD160, Micro DD40 and Rega Planar3/R200.
Different headshells and -wires, mats, extra arm/headshellweights, heavy/light stands/shelfs etc.
I still ow a genuine in GB manufactured mat, the GA audiosounddisc made from 4mm glass!
Problem is: when you start, there is no end to it.
Sounds do change/better? one way or another, but you loose the intended reference of the manufacturer.

I chickened out and stopped on purpose when I bought my Rega P3 in 2002.
I choose to keep it standard with Rega cartridges and enjoye it alot.
Together with the EraGV in place about a year ago and now with the "planet earth" wall-connection.
As GS did explain and I had to try out (at no cost now).
I am replaying most of my albums with pleasure, but... I'm also thinking about a last standard-TT upgrade. Han

[fanboi]

rowuk
thanks for the recommendation, although I could not seem to find it on vinyl
I did find a CD set on Amazon, I do already have John Gardiners period instrument set and my earliest favourite, von Karajans DGG recodings from the 60s (on vinyl and CD) and the Krips LSO on vinyl.
I have a number of other period instrument recordings including the Pinnock Mozart and rather like the variety they give.

You have previously aired the view, a perfectly legitimate one I would hasten to add, and a very understandable one for a performer, that the technology is purely a means to the end of the music.

I would put the proposition that tinkering, twiddling and tweaking are, in and of themselves, perfectly legitimate pursuits and in fact an essential part of the creative process known to all artisans and artists.
As such, they do not require the justification of a specific outcome, they may be inspired by an envisaged outcome but their legitimacy as activities is not dependent on achieving that outcome.

IME, and I feel you will relate to this, the first thing an artisan/artist must learn is how to use his tools, which includes adjusting them and maintaining them and adapting them to his own way of working as that develops. Then he/she must then learn the characteristics of his materials and how to work with them - and I do mean with them - not on them. After that, the work will tell you how it must be done.
In all this there must be time for play, "what if" time, "wonder what will be the result if I.." time.

I have learnt how to do many things by first trying the things that should not be done so that I might then understand why they should not be done (not by any means always deliberately - it has just worked out that way) - there have been many times when the obvious has eluded me in a quite determined fashion and others when what was obvious to me was not to others.

Enough rambling, I have found a number of your posts intellectualy stimulating, thank you for that.

[fanboi]

Han,
no objection at all to your suggestion. (to add in the other posts)

I did threaten in the other thread to start a new one when I got my thoughts together, as usual with me that took a little longer than I might have anticipated.
And still only half way to what I was thinking of then.

Yes, you are right, it has cost a few dollars and I do not know if I would do the same again, but it has been a lot of fun and listening to the results ATM, I'm a pretty happy camper.

Still, tallying up what I have spent, it would have cost more to buy something a bit more upmarket like a michell or an origin live, a secondhand SME 3012 goes for up to twice what the tecnoarm cost - so ?

I believe the P3 to be a better proposition than the P2 in stock form - but I feel they are both built down to a price rather than up to a performance. From the number of aftermarket mods available for them it would rather appear that others feel similarly and many of these mods address issues that Rega themselves address further up the food chain.

Where does it stop ? - a good question, although I think I have done nearly all that can be done with this one - I do have one mod of my own design to perhaps implement - more on that if and when.
Motor upgrades I think are too expensive - especially when I find an article where some chap has made his own TT and used a modified computer floppy drive motor and speed controller!

WRT Grahams observations on the bass shy aspect - I have yet to compare that.
I have a couple of trials in mind, first I will fit my Sansui DD which is very similar to an SL1200 with an AT95 and try Grahams recommended Genesis recording on both decks.
If that shows better bass on the Sansui, then I will try putting the Rega on the floor although with the SRM base on it I rather doubt I can repeat Grahams experience.

Still to get around to doing an exhaustive comparison of the EGV and the "green" Reflex - suppose I had better get that done if I want to sell the EGV after, at the rate I am referring people here there will be no-one left in Aust to sell it to - already killed one sale - doh.

Must admit, that I do not feel the Rega to be bass shy in its present form with the current cartridge, but then, to many, my speakers might be considered somewhat bass light, I find them more than adequate and I do prefer quality to quantity.

Have had an afternoon of listening to different recordings of Beethoven 7, 1 on vinyl and 4 different ones on CD and I certainly did not feel the vinyl was missing anything in comparison to the CD - rather the opposite apart from the performance differences.

Would be interested to hear what you think you might upgrade to.
Glad to hear the "wall shelf" idea gave you an improvement, certainly worth the cost by the sound of it.

[gns]

Another helpful observation - Driving force.

Looking at differences between TTs and the results they give, and remembering back to the sort of reviews the Rega Planar used to get...

It was noted on a number of occasions that the Rega exposed a change in tempo on a particular Dire Straits track that wasn't apparent on any other TT. This was touted as being something miraculous! I must say that I almost noticed the effect on mine but at that time the Rega was not coupled effectively to the planet.

Here, I am going to suggest that the reviewers were talking rubbish

Why? Let's take a look at what actually happens in replay of vinyl:

If you spin by finger alone, a lightweight platter with stylus engaged in the records groove, you may just find that the effort required is greater in sections where there is loud music than where it is run-in or run-out groove.

This is hardly surprising - my Son found it hard going riding his bike on the grass compared to tarmac.

The Rega has some mass to its platter, but the motor is a very weak affair, easily stopped. Its mass is passively coupled to its hub by gravity.

Therefore, my observation is that it will expose a change in tempo - its own!

Change the tempo of bass and you change its character. Placing a 6mm thick solid neoprene mat on the Rega glass platter (with appropriate arm adjustments) reinforces the bass because the rotational mass has increased, plus I doubt it would change tempo so easily like that?

Referring back to the Technics, its platter mass is not quite as great, but it is under direct driving force which takes some stopping! The platter is, after all, one part of the motor! There are a number of similar looking TTs to the Technics, but do they have the same platter/motor arrangement? The Audio Technica PL120 looks identical until you pull off its platter...

Technics supply a slip mat. It is a felt mat. It allows slippage between the record and the platter. Rega supply a felt mat. It sits on a highly polished surface - that of glass - the combination is a slip mat!

As I have always suspected of Hi-Fi: It is not about high fidelity, it is about meddling. It is about playing with sound because the alternative is so boring, yawn...

There is a small dedicated group of people who are capable of and dedicated to making high fidelity highly fulfilling - the opposite of boring, but because of misinformation, the wood cannot now be seen for the trees.

Looking back at the Technics, it will be noted that it is also supplied with a "grippy" rubber mat.

The Technics may not be the be-all and end-all of TTs, but at least it approaches realism. And it does it through proper science, whereas IMHO the Rega's of this world replace a blank canvas with a pre-coloured backdrop.

As Len Gregory (The Cartridgeman) recently said to me "the turntable is a simple device, all it has to do is properly support the record while turning it at exactly 33 and one third rpm (he doesn't play singles...) - you'd think they'd have got it right by now?!"

[serverbaboon]

Perhaps this is why people are raving about using modified DD turntables, HiFi Worlds recent articles about modding Technics 1200 and Lencos. Also the market for Modded Garrard 301/401s. Its all about the bass power and speed stability that a powerful motor seems to give.

I am looking after my father's Rega Planar 2 and was shocked how much give in the motor there was.

[rowuk]

Fanboi,
you are definitely right, tinkering can also be the means to an end! I also learned by doing and have my share of reanimations by coming in contact with the mains.........
If nothing else, I would like to offer a reality check from the stage. I perform a great deal and have an active interest in sound reproduction. I try to post for those interested in the synergies. As most commercial music has NOTHING to do with a genuine stage performance, it is useful to try and get inside the head of the recording engineer. That breed of homo sapien (with the Beyer HD770 phones) is as diverse as we all are on this side of the fence! There are those that try and create a recording that will give us the sense of a natural stage. There are also the techies that enjoy a supernatural approach with images that seem to be etched in stone, sound qualities that can only be duplicated by putting our ears right next to the instruments and soundstages that can have instruments flying around the room. As with us, everything from servant to god!
This is a case of burning the candle at both ends of the recording/playback process.
Only if we can grasp the attitude of the engineer, do we know what to EXPECT at the reproduction end. For the technically oriented, it is almost as important to know who the recording engineer/producer is as the performers!

Graham,
I think the forces of inertia could be calculated to compensate for any mechanical resistance from the stylus/groove. The standard (easy) solution is just to throw a lot of horsepower and mass at the problem and then discuss the effects of various motor and bearing schemes. I remember the reviews on rubber, neoprene vs aramide fibre drive belts. Quite possibly the difference was that mechanical resistance changing the speed. Never thought about it back then.
Are there any tests about switched mode power supplies making the TT motor sound nervous...........?
In other disciplines, a reduction in mass increases the units ability to quickly recover from an instable state - or move resonance to a more advantageous frequency. B&W Matrix speaker cabinets, Fostex or AER fullrange speaker cones, Van den Hul stylus and cantilever, the use of carbon fibre in formula 1 race cars come immediately to mind.
Oh yes, carbon fibre. It looks cool, is easily molded, conducts electricity, is tough and of stable form - a material for an enclosure for a Graham Slee product?

[gns]

Conducts electricity?

Yes, I suppose it does like any poor insulator. It is resistive - they make carbon resistors because of that property. In this digital age it would be the last thing I would consider for an enclosure. RF is more destructive than the influence of "room" vibrations - at its extreme it is even carcinogenic!

And we ask for more?

[rowuk]

gns said:

Conducts electricity?

Yes, I suppose it does like any poor insulator. It is resistive - they make carbon resistors because of that property. In this digital age it would be the last thing I would consider for an enclosure. RF is more destructive than the influence of "room" vibrations - at its extreme it is even carcinogenic!

And we ask for more?

sorry I asked....................
we use carbon fibre in building model airplanes and can use it as the antenna for the radio receiver. We discovered when placing the wire antenna inside, we had no reception. Turning the fuselage into the antenna was successful however.

[gns]

rowuk said:

gns said:

Conducts electricity?

Yes, I suppose it does like any poor insulator. It is resistive - they make carbon resistors because of that property. In this digital age it would be the last thing I would consider for an enclosure. RF is more destructive than the influence of "room" vibrations - at its extreme it is even carcinogenic!

And we ask for more?

sorry I asked....................
we use carbon fibre in building model airplanes and can use it as the antenna for the radio receiver. We discovered when placing the wire antenna inside, we had no reception. Turning the fuselage into the antenna was successful however.

Wasn't meant in flame at you. The rest of the world perhaps.....?

[rowuk]

gns said:

rowuk said:

sorry I asked....................
we use carbon fibre in building model airplanes and can use it as the antenna for the radio receiver. We discovered when placing the wire antenna inside, we had no reception. Turning the fuselage into the antenna was successful however.

Wasn't meant in flame at you. The rest of the world perhaps.....?

Do not feel flamed........... Carbon Fibre still looks cool and the faraday cage principle worked in the airplane..................! ;D

[cyreg]

Reacting on GS's motorsubject regarding the Planar3 TT, I think Roy Gandy agreed with him and thought so too. In the P3-2000 model he mounted a better more vibration controlled motor straight to the plinth.
In the latest P3-24 incarnation he even choose for the same 24VAC motor as in the P7 with option of separate TT-PSU.
Those are still low torque AC synchron motors, but that's the designers choice and probably because of the "light and rigid" design philosofy. To change records "on the move" as suggested by Rega (let the motor spin untill you stop listening) will have influenced the choice of a felt mat, disturbing the motor the least.

Because I am looking for one last substantial upgrade I did some research on the internet.
I learned (not listened) about other TT's from reviews, users and forums VinylEngine, SteveHoffman, VinylAsylum, Audiogon and more. I investigated the Michell Tecnodec, Funk Firm Vector , VPI Scout(no arm), others and again the Rega's for a few weeks.
Here in Holland the price for above types is 1200-1700 Euro, including a "Rega" arm of some sort/mod.

I had to conclude again, as I like the "Rega" type of sound very much, it's still my best choice to stay with Rega without a risk.
To hopefully improve on the now existing wall-earthconnection, I ordered a Rega wallbracket that should help to get the best out of any Rega TT.
Future Rega options will be P3-24/PSU(1050), P5(1200), P5/PSU(1500) and even perhaps a P7(OK, I'll dream on, is too expensive at 2200).
I'll let you know about the difference/improvement? of the wallrack, after that maybe..............
Have fun, Han

[fanboi]

Hi Han,
it will be good to hear what you think of the wall shelf.
I started this thread as a sort of mini review of the benefits or not of various mats and platters that I have tried on the P2 in order to share my observations (of whatever value they may be).
It seems to have digressed a little
This forum seems to be about maximum music for minimum outlay and some assessment of tweaks that might be tried on an aknowledged budget (and very common/popular) TT seemed appropriate.
It is to be remembered in all this, that this T/T as I bought it, cost me 2/3 the price of a new SL1200.
How I came to be in possession of this TT was more a matter of what was available to me at the time than an "I want a P2 because xyz"
I have owned a Sansui SR-525 DD for more than 15 years but not used it much until around 18 months ago when my current "audiophool" phase started in earnest.
Initially I bought a Terratec phono input for my PC and thought to archive my records digitally - at least that was the plan.
Whilst playing around with that arrangement, I decided to see what a cartridge upgrade from the pretty basic pie-in-ear cartridge that was fitted might sound like.
It was at that point that the rot set in
After a brief flirtation with an Ortofon OM10 and an AT91, both of which were noticeable improvements, I fell in love with a Denon DL110. Unfortunately, this rather stiff cartridge was not playing all that well with the arm in the Sansui which was a trifle too light for it and too sloppy and under mass in the counterweight to allow mass loading the cartridge.
I did a little home work and found that, with some surgery, it might be possible to fit an SME 3009, which, if the correct model were obtained (there were quite a variety of arm mass figures for these arms) should allow full control and proper loading of the cartridge.
Around this time I did consider various other T/Ts, Linn was known to me by reputation going back to its introduction, but research showed them to be a very variable product with many upgrades and modifications and a reputation for needing a skilled mechanic, further, they seem to have become something of a cult item and command, to me, silly prices on ebay and the like, so they were out.
I liked the power and speed stability of quality DD turntables and could quite happily ignore the hifi press badmouthing of them.
I also liked the convenience of removeable headshells, despite their assumed inferiority to rigid arms.
Had I been in the market for a new T/T at that time, I might well have bought an SL1200.
(my how the budget has expanded since then )
At this stage, I was scouring ebay for an SME to fit to the Sansui, again, these seem to have become cult objects and were going for around twice what I wanted to pay.
After around 3 months of no success in finding an arm at the sort of price I could find acceptable, I noticed the P2 that I now have, the seller was known to me, I could pick the item up (I would be very wary of having a T/T shipped by an ebay seller), it included $200 worth of upgrades and a $600 Dynavector cartridge with around 50 hrs on it and all for the price of a good used SME 3009.
The seller was genuine, he had just bought a Michell Orbe and Lyra cartridge and the Rega had the latest production motor with the adhesive pad motor mounts rather than the rubber O ring arrangement.
I figured if I did not like it, it would not be too hard to unload and get my money back.
As it happened, I did like it, although along the way I decided that I preferred the Denon to the Dynavector.
If I still had a workshop, or even a decent garage in which to work, I might seriously consider an ex-broadcast SP10 for its huge platter and power, but they all need a plinth built for them and are of very variable quality as secondhand items, from near unused to knackered and tricked up with thick oil.
Another cult object with price no indication of quality. The best arm for them is probably an SME 3012 and you start thinking $1700 for a decent one of those.
Most of the belt drives that interest me have huge platters and all seem around $3000 without an arm so are probably in never land for me.
If the Sansui with the AT95 demonstrates what Graham has described with the SL1200 (yes, they are different but not too so) - then I could consider an SL1200 and unload the Rega.
I do not think I would buy a secondhand SL1200.
One observation I would make is regarding the transfer of energy/vibration into the plinth, on the Rega when playing a record with the amplifier off and using a stethoscope on the plinth, it is possible to hear the music, on the Sansui there is silence. No doubt this is due to the difference in arm bearings, the Sansui arm has knife bearings which are quite sloppy.
It does beg the question of whether this energy transfers back via the platter bearing and spindle into the playing surface.
Perhaps the 2 jewels and 3 piece spindle of the Groovetracer sub-platter reduces this?
I have no way to test this other than listening for clarity and detail.
Perhaps some method of isolating the arm mount from the plinth might be good?
Anyway, I've had a nice ramble in the countryside between my ears, time for some music.
Sade - Diamond Life I think (on black plastic not small silver thingys )

[rowuk]

Fanboi,
if vibrations travel in the direction of the plinth, they will also travel in the other direction. You can short circuit these vibrations by adding (much more) mass. Decoupling the arm would perhaps limit the plinth vibrations (through the bearings, but environmental soundwaves would still come through the disk) but also reduce the mass of the arm assembly, thus making it MORE susceptible to airborn vibrations. The arm bearings on the Sansui probably aren't losing that much energy, the plinth is probably doing a better job of not getting excited.
A dead plinth is a good plinth. That is where I think you should start.
Mass is not the only way to stabilise. There are matrix schemes (like in the B&W matrix series speakers, or fibreglass boats or airplanes) that keep the mass low to also keep the kinetic energy low.

[Deleted]

"or fibreglass boats or airplanes"

What,no carbon fibre ?

[fanboi]

I posed the question
"Perhaps some method of isolating the arm mount from the plinth might be good?"
more rhetorically than anything else but with the inspiration of having read the following article some time ago - www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/pedersen_e.html
Which is more the sort of decoupling I might have thought of.
"A dead plinth is a good plinth." - to the best of my knowledge there are no acoustically inert materials - only the resonant frequency changes - that given, some will dissipate spurious energy more efficiently than others. IIRC I did mention the situation in respect of lack of workshop facilities, which rather precludes the manufacture of an alternative plinth.
A mass loaded perimeter frame for the plinth bonded with an elastomeric adhesive might be a possibility.
And of course a unipivot arm would also obviate that problem.
".....plinth is probably doing a better job of not getting excited." - the tried and trusty knock on wood whilst listening on the 'scope says not. The arm pillar is solidly connected to the plinth with a clamping nut in similar manner to the Rega arms hence it would appear that the dissipation of spurious energy is occuring in the bearings and headshell mechanical connection.
One of the tweaks I have read to improve the performance of this cartridge on Rega type arms involves a form of constrained layer damping at the cartridge/arm interface by the insertion of two short lengths of .8mm copper wire crossways between the cartridge and the mount plate and the use of either nylon cartridge bolts or nylon washers on the bolts.

[Deleted]

"and the use of either nylon cartridge bolts or nylon washers on the bolts."

fanboi
I seem to remember doing similar things many years ago. Things like that can sometimes make a worthwhile difference to some cartridges. From memory, I was using a Dynavector fitted with a parabolic stylus at the time.

SandyK

[rowuk]

sandyk said:

"or fibreglass boats or airplanes"

What,no carbon fibre ?

There is premanufactured fibreglass that puffs up into a multidimensional structure when soaking it with resin. We used it for large model airplanes to get a stiff but low resonance fusilage. I built some bass reflex speaker cabinets for a Mazda dashboard out of this stuff. It was not "inert" but no frequency was really "excited" by it either.

Graham suggested coupling to something heavy. That could be accomplished with spikes.

There was a mod for Sennheiser headphones with some self adhesive bitumen stripping. Could be a convenient way to add mass here too without making a mess!

[Deleted]

Robin
I was being facetious, and having a sly dig at your post about using the model aircraft's body as an antenna. I think you won that round on points !
Regards
Alex

P.S.
Why not Voyager in a carbon fibre case ? Not for shielding, but strength.

[rowuk]

Carbon fibre is very expensive.
I am sure that cases even if made in China by children under 10 years old using carcinogenic resin, would raise the cost another 20 Quid. Now if Graham let those kids solder the Voyager together, he could probably save the ............................... (first put flame retardent suit on with kevlar armouring).............. 20 Quid and keep the price the same.
I think that carbon fibre looks extremely cool!

[fanboi]

sandyk said:

Robin
~ snip ~
Why not Voyager in a carbon fibre case ? Not for shielding, but strength.

Lack of impact strength would be a good reason.
Kevlar would be a much more appropriate choice.