POS Rescue Squad

[rickcr42]

Someone knowing I am one of those "I can fix anything" types just gave me a POS Apex AD-1010W DVD Player (Piece Of Sh*t) for free saying it sh*t the bed and would no longer work.Considering how little can actually go wrong with a DVD player with very few playing hours I first offered to fix it for free,then when the person told me I could take a hammer to it for all he cared did the natural thing and googled the model number so I knew just what the deal was here.

So turns out it was not only a bottom feeder player but maybe even as entry level as it gets since the original "street"price was in the $30 area,not a good sign at all but oh well

so I turn up this page pretty much at the top of the google search and find out there is a DIY software upgrade available and there is an actual forum section having to do with this player at nerdout.com with more info (some not too promising actually ;D ) than I usually have for ANY second hand player even with the service manual !

www.nerd-out.com/darrenk/1110W/AD1010W-1110W.htm

www.nerd-out.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=32

so it is a cheap pice of crap mostly,was dirt cheap even when new,is from a manufacturer that seems to come out with new models every Christmas that have a known build number and so once sold are never again seen in the retail marketplace,not a good thing for consumer confidence,yet it is so damn cute and has so many possible upgrade paths I can't resist taking it on and bringing it up to "system level" as an audio only player with on screen track number indication.

I will do my typical "El Cheapo Player Upgrade" :

1-bypass the entire analog section by using the SPDIF output to an external DAC

2-Either improve the internal power supply or yank the AC cord and in its place add a multipin connector for a NEW external power supply

3-look to see if any internal chassis damping can be done on the cheap

4-add some mass to the player chassis.A combination of a Harwood cabinet bedded to the tin cover with cork in between,maybe a TAR sheet lining the inside of the cover/maybe not,and a top weight-my main "rickmod" to all things cheap and light

5-try both "squishy" and a "rigid" chassis to shelf coupling to see which sounds best

Total cost expected around $30 tops since I have pretty much everything I need to screw around with this in my junk box.

so why bother at all ?

I like the "look" and I love the compact size which in combination with a fairly solid DVD/CD tray would make a seriously nice bedside source for a headphone based playback system.

Step 1 will be to get the POS to recognize a disc then the real fun begins

gotta say I have no idea how I survived before search engines.What a damn nice resource to have available to humans

[rickcr42]

BTW-this picture does not do the player justice.Actually very attractive in the flesh

[PinkFloyd]

Looks like one of those things you buy at the supermarket for £29.99 and, from what I can gather, some of them are real good finds and some of them are right old junk. I bought a "Bush" DVD player for £19.99 at my local co-op (reduced from £49.99 to £19.99) last year and, you know what? It's a bloody good little DVD player. I watch DVDs about twice a year so spending more than £19.99 would have been a waste.

Nice little machine Rick and it's good that you're saving it from the scrapheap. Let us know how you get on with it!

I hear what you're saying about these forums I was surprised to find there were so many people discussing my Bush DVD 2038 £19.99 supermarket purchase, all waffling on about region hacks etc. weird!

I wish you'd get a camera and we can compare the guts of our el cheapo DVD players! I'll take some of my £19.99 supermarket wonder tomorrow and we can discuss the porn.

www.ciao.co.uk/Bush_DVD2038__6325632

[rickcr42]

Nice little machine Rick and it's good that you're saving it from the scrapheap. Let us know how you get on with it!

Absolutely Mikester.

I hope I can get it operational (step 1 obviously) since it really is the type of styling I like in such things with the small footprint and Cassette Deck reminiscent controls.

If there is one thing I mostly find unattractive it is the huge CD/DVD players with nothing but empty space inside forming echo chambers and a "busy" front panel having controls no human will ever use !
I personally am a hit "play" then "stop" when done kind of person who at best may use a pause control to answer the phone

I hear what you're saying about these forums I was surprised to find there were so many people discussing my Bush DVD 2038 £19.99 supermarket purchase, all waffling on about region hacks etc. weird!

one plus for low cost mass market goods is there will be a lot of that particular item out there and any time there is a lot of something the owners will find each other and talk about the good and/or bad.
Another plus is also the minus.Being so cheap you don't get upset if the items shits the bed but instead just go buy another which is really the major problem area with modern mass market goods and why a long term warrantee is no longer the norm with any electronics purchases AND we are seeing the end of the consumer electronics repair tech because the repair is more costly than the replacement.


There was a time when you could expect 10-20 years before a repair needed but now the norm is closer to 1-2 with no repair possible many times

[xerxes]

The £37.99 I spent on my Toshiba DVD player seems rather extravgant compared to you two misers.

I just opted for the cheapest player I could find with a name on it that I'd actually heard of before. I think it's actually quite good for the money, the only real let down is the incredibly flimsy case; the little flap that's supposed to spring shut when the drawer/tray closes has lost its spring and now just flaps about, but it still plays discs, so I'm not that bothered.

[PinkFloyd]

Now just how sad is this? I've spent "time" on a Saturday afternoon actually popping the hood and taking pictures of my £19.99 BUSH supermarket special DVD player. Gone are the days where my Saturday afternoons were spent balling nubile young wenches and swilling ale..... on no, these days "entertainment" means taking pictures of capacitors and circuit boards....... oh god what have I done to deserve this!!

Anyways, here's a pic of mine.... maybe we can compare the guts of supermarket DVD players, now that would be fun ;D










BTW, it is relatively "sturdy" in construction. Not bad for under £20

[xerxes]

I don't know who's sadder, you for starting this or me for following your lead.

In any case this is what the princely sum of £37.99 gets you:


Quite a plain, but fairly smart slimline box, which is annoyingly a fair bit wider than your average VCR, Freeview box etc., so it sticks out when you stack it on top of them.

You can also see the little flap that no longer springs closed properly.


The guts.


The main board with a few ICs and lots and lots of teeny, tiny surface mount resistors.


The ultra high quality power supply board.

[rickcr42]

The £37.99 I spent on my Toshiba DVD player seems rather extravgant compared to you two misers.

Cheap Bastard is closer to true

the only real let down is the incredibly flimsy case; the little flap that's supposed to spring shut when the drawer/tray closes has lost its spring and now just flaps about, but it still plays discs, so I'm not that bothered

Very few modern transport mechanisms are worth a shit then you add in the crap chassis that is all empty space inside and you have the worst possible combination for CD stability you can come up with.

First the only reason CDs load from the front in a "tray" is so we can stack shit on top of the player or squeeze the player into a shelf with zero overhaed space so space saving measures and not for any theoretical performance level.You want stable ?

Top load the prick.

Second is chassis size.Because it is already established the POS will be either taking up its own too small shelf or stacked with other audio componants,not a bad idea if the transport needs some mass added to the top and most do,then there needs to be some theoretical semi standard sizing or the gear will look retarded so 16.9 has been deemed "standard" and that means a lot of emptiness inside the chassis unless the player is a true high end model with multiple beefy power supplies and a serious output stage-not something you will find in consumer grade gear.

Next is the cost cutting measures to allow for the under a C-note prices.These normally go to lighter,cheesier,less relaible,easily deformed/easily worn out transport section parts.
anything that moves will wear out eventually so the beefier it is the longer it will last but beefy means expensive metal parts instead of plastic (heat deforms it soooooo easily and inside the chassis,a chassis not vented then weasled into too little a space you get heat buildup then defomities) or cheap pressed "}mystery metal" parts.Thin metal also deforms easily.

So now you have open space which is an acoustic path for airborne vibrations be they human movement or loudspeaker induced,mechanical vibrations from the drive motors and no mass to dissapate the vibrastions and you have what ?

After market acoustic tuning/isolation devices is what ! That $100 bargain just got expensive when you actually try to tame the faults !


Unless you are a meber of Team Cheap Bastard that is

So unless you are prepared to spend big for a quality transport you need to bring the cheap crap to as close to inert as possible so you can then actually hear what you have and then correct THOSE flaws and all withing a price that makes the initial purchase one that makes sense.

in other words-why buy a cheap player then spend large sums getting it to play nice when the obvious answer would have been to make a better up front purchase decision of the same monetary amount ?

Simple "CHEAP" fixes of the known flaws were the object of an article in Greg Weaver's "synergizing" column in the Sound Stage Online Magazine articles

"A Ten dollar Seismic Sink"

www.soundstage.com/weaver03.htm



and "A Few Freebies More"

www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize091999.htm

especially the "penny box" which is such a cheap.common sense method of adding mass to the top panel of a CDP there have been commercial variants offered at premium prices that do the same thing and in my opinion no more than some trying to cash in on the original Weaver method.

www.soundstage.com/synergize/pics/199909_pennybox.jpg[/img]

the combination of the two is a good starting point because they help eliminate external events from effecting the spinning CD leaving what ?

Internally induced vibrations from the motor.These can be a bitch to get rid of because the cheap ass plastic and stamped metal parts do not leave you much empty space or non-rubbing surfaces to add shit to but when you DO find an area that allows it blue tack is nice.Just stick the shit everywhere then with the cover off use the player and while cycling through ALL the controls look for mechanical interference from the blue tac then remove as much as you must for proper transport operation and no more.

Oh yeah.Don't put it in areas where it may fall off and get cobbed up in the mechanism.If there are gears and or lever bars below what you are adding it to think ahead to worst case if it falls off then make the call whether or not to do the deed


I also like to add some WOOD wherever I can so first I usually measure the lid then bounce to the local lumber yeard where I try to weasle if possible some "free" (I AM the founding member of Team Cheap Bastard afterall ) scraps of 1/2 inch cabinet grade birch veneer plywood so I can wrap the lid in wood.
Usually this "wrap" is all three sides (top/left/right) but sometimes just two end caps and once I even wraped the top in black leather over a couple of sheets of cork then added the end caps of birch play,also over sheet cork,to the sides and i have to say it looked GREAT while also adding a nice amount of both mass and lid damping.All for only a couple of bucks

To the inside of the lid it is TAR sheets as used to damp resonances in automobile sound systems.REALLY heavy stuff easily cut with a pair of shears to size.apply with contact cement as kind of a "tack" then with the outter wood cover in place from the inside drive 3/8 inch screws with washers all over the new tin/wood cover.Screws are cheap so don't be shy dammit ! Make that puke look like a friggin silver and black dart board !

I also like to qhip out my own isolation platforms cut to suit each player and I can not honestly say if they actually improve anything but WTF,they look cool so they are part of my SOP (Standard Operating Proceedure) for all El Cheapo CDP mods.

Recipe-1/2 inch birch ply-layer of sheet cork-1/2 birch veneer ply.

This sits on either "squishy" feet of the above inner tube with the top having spikes (again the cheap ones not the fancy ass high $$$$ ones ;D ) in a triangle pattern "spikes up" so that the points suspend the player.

That takes care of the mechanical part and once i listen to the player for a bit to get the "flavor" of it uneffected by inside or outside influence decide on the electronic upgrade path if anythere really is a point of throwing good money after bad so the decision needs to be "am I doing this to get a better player or doing this just because I can and a waste of time and money in the end"

If the former then usually it is the power supply I look to followed by the analog section if it is used at all (Many time I just plug in an external DAC and call it a day )

I is my experience you get more mileage out of improving the power to the motor and laser than to the digital or analog section-again back to the "get it satble and on spec" part of upgrading which if it is not right no amount of super circuitry can fix later.You need to get the information off the disc accurately first before even thinking about getting that information to sound better so in combination with the above methods is where the high end transports are worth the loot even though it is usually the DAC chip and/or analog section they tout loudest in the ad copy (sexier by far as a selling point)

******************************

back to the Apex :

Opened it up right after I started this thread because it would not play even though it did turn on.With the cover off I witnessed the disc trying to spin up to speed and would nudge ever so faintyl then stop.Figuring "what the hell" I gave it a slight nudge to maybe assist it but nope,would go a half revolution then stop dead then maybe go a bit then stop,go,stop,never rwching full spin speed hence the laser can not read the disc.

The combination of me not having much free time lately,it being summer and not the time of your for being a house mouse and finally me being mostly whipped from work I set it aside for the entire week but here it is the weekend,it is pouring like a bastard and the forecast is more of the sam for sunday so it is time to fish or cut bait (fix it or gun it out the window).

I will shortly measure all the power supply voltages to see if there is a problem with the "food source" to the motor which i hope there is it being easily fixed but if not I will need to tear into that fking nighmare that is the tray mechanism and that means a total tear down-hopefully NOT but if yes then that will be my focus until

A-I repair the problem or

B-I lose my patience and take a hammer to it


Hopefully "A" tough "B" works for me also




.

[PinkFloyd]

Just look how close your PSU is to the main board! For £39.99 you'd expect better. Look how my PSU and main board are far away from each other this is the quality that £19.99 buys you! All we need to see now is Rick's el cheapo DVD player. Man I'm beginning to "tent" with all this under the bonnet PORN...... somebody shower me down fast!

[rickcr42]

SHIT MIKE ! That Bush is almost identical internally to the Apex and the power supply looks to be the very same board !!!!

The Toshiba is very oviously a better unit than both,not surprising considering they have been about the best bargain in the mass market consumer grade geari n both VHS and DVD players for years.

[rickcr42]

Have my Apex in my hand right now and there is zero doubt about it-the power supply board in the Bush is exactly the same unit

Internal differences are the control board is a small psb mounted to the left of the disc load tray (the bush is below) and the main pcb is "inverted" so it is over the transport by 1/3 the board width making the interior very tight-something I actually like over wide open spaces

[xerxes]

The Toshiba is very oviously a better unit than both,not surprising considering they have been about the best bargain in the mass market consumer grade geari n both VHS and DVD players for years.

....but is it twice as good as the price would suggest?

I did happen to spot the Toshiba in What Hi-Fi magazine a while after I bought it and they rated it as the best DVD player for under £50.00, so it would seem that I picked a fairly good one quite by chance.

[rickcr42]

....but is it twice as good as the price would suggest?

Could be.The Zoran CODEC is definately the better engine so if the internal Digital/analog section used instead of an external DA Converter I think yes.Modded definately.

With an external DAC it would then come down to transport mechanism.Motor & laser power and here it is less defined since likely the actual mechanicals are all from the same factories and ALL power supplies at this price level need a big time update in parts quality or size.

The size part is all about the current draw and what robs the most current on a continuous basis and what for momentary persiods.Always a good idea to have individually decoupled storage capacitors feeding each stage so they ron on;ly from assigned areas but this reaches critical mass at some point and WILL stress the rectifiers if you don't protect them.

Unlike regular analog circuits where a slow turn on profile can may times save the bridge digital has stepped powering and uspessting that timing can cause system lockup so something to consider as well.


My way would be to go straight to an off board "daughterboard" with over rated TO-220 hexfreds bolted to heat sinks for the rectifiers,RF caps and snubbers everywhere I could fit them (including directly across the power on switch),swapping out the line cord then adding in a IEC filtered type,then increases in the output electrolytics to each section with the audio sections,both digital and analog,getting LCR isolation at every single power supply pin to any chip whnever possible.

At the analog section,if kept,losing the entire output section and using a simple coupling cap from the CODEC output pins to the output jacks or depending on if it will be a smart move or not (or enough available chassis space/power supply capacity) an entirely new output section with transformer coupling to the world

[rickcr42]

and BTW ALL these buget decks will benefit from the "Synergy Sandwich" of isolation+added mass



total cost around $10

[PinkFloyd]

but is it twice as good as the price would suggest?

Not a patch on the BUSH! £39? You were well ripped off! Why pay almost £40 for a Tosh when you can get a state of the ark BUSH for £19.99? Are you mad? BUSH rules!

[rickcr42]

HUH ?

MY APEX RULES !!!!!!!!!!



......if i ever get the damn thing working.......................

[rickcr42]

the bad news is I can't get this prick to work so far and have no idea why.....yet

The good news is the actual transport mechanism is identical to both the above which tells me it is the standard El Cheapo DVD player mechanism and potentially I can pull one from any POS supermarket budget player player and just plug it in

I want this one over any newly purchsed "internal clone" due to the mentioned style and control layout which I like so until I get an actual disc play any mods are on hold.

If I DO get it up and running I am determined to go the external power supply route since no way the cramped interior and small power supply pcb footprint will allow much slack unless I go to small parts that will be no better than what is already there.

I also picked up a second DITB locally ($10 at a pawn shop !!!!!) a have a nice 12 battery I "procured" for free from a defunct security system (told you i was cheap didn't I ?) so I am thinking external battery power DITB with the output stage disconnected,the IV/V-out pins separated then runnning wires to the current RCA outputs add an external mic transformer/resistor passive IV and gain stage for the analog part.

BTW-the mechanism is truly a big time POS and that fkn tiny ass motor does not exactly instill confidence in how much torque to expect for busy passages

[xerxes]

In contrast to our collection of under £50.00 POS DVD players, here's a really beautifully made DIY CD player based around a Phillips CD PRO transport:

www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73089&perpage=10&pagenumber=1

You will have to register to see the pictures, but it's worth a look, the guy has made a fantastic job of the whole thing, with a completely separate and external power supply and a "floating" section for the transport using opposing magnets.

[kittenyberk]

www.bugmenot.com/view/www.diyaudio.com - very handy site

[rickcr42]

In contrast to our collection of under £50.00 POS DVD players, here's a really beautifully made DIY CD player based around a Phillips CD PRO transport:

The phillips transport based DIY CD players have been a staple on the internet for a while.Not exactly "budget" but for a high end build the way to go.

I wish I could remember the link I once had to a Chinese site that had pages and pages of DIY CD players that ranged from simple utility players (transport on a wood slab) to fancy acrylic or custom machined billet chassis,all easy on the eye.

What makes this a high end player ?

Look at the heavy metal/solidly built mechanism then compare it to the above lightweight/underdamped/easily deformed thin plastic mechanism fully meant to wear out or break so you will buy a new player.
would not work in the high end audio gear but is a great business model at the bottom feeder level

[xerxes]

Not exactly "budget" but for a high end build the way to go.

I think the CD PRO mechanism alone is about $300 US, but if you have the tools, materials and the know how, you could still save a packet compared to some of the commercially available products that use this transport from the likes of Krell, Mark Levinson etc. I don't know whether you saw the pictures in the forum thread I linked to, but the player the guy has built compares well to the very best commercially availabe in terms of fit and finish.

Many of the DIY projects I've seen, my own included, look like DIY projects, they may well equal or better the best "off the shelf" products available in sonic terms, but the fit and finish is sometimes not up there with the very best; the home made or generic "hammond type" case, being a bit of a giveaway. This CD transport on the other hand may well sound dreadfull, but it's beautifully finished and would not look out of place next to some of the megabucks kit produced by the worlds most expesive hi-fi brands.

Hats off to Roberto, the builder, for the best looking, most beautifully and professionally finished piece of DIY audio equipment I've seen - so far.

Now show us your stuff.

[rickcr42]

I think the CD PRO mechanism alone is about $300 US

when everything is said and done way more and that is if you even get the part which i understand is a major bitch point.As for quality it is THE transport and used as the basis for all the high end players I know of.

Many of the DIY projects I've seen, my own included, look like DIY projects

You are not the only one for sure.Housing the gear in a classy enclosure is way harder than building it for function alone.

The linked player is nice if you are into that type of style,I am not.and the fit and finish impeccable,but for a DIY "Slam Job" that would be easy for most anyone to build check out this puppy



something anyone could build.Say a simple solid maple slab to mount to the actual transport mechanism then suspended in a standard steel hammond chassis (hammertone paint of course ) on coil springs and a cover for the motor

good content on the page here for the DIYer

www.audiodesignguide.com/thePlayer/thePlayer.html

Now show us your stuff.

soon,very soon.am in the process of a total system cosmetic redesign so that each individual unit looks like it was a planned part of the whole rather than a haphazard after thought.I THINK I have the final cosmetics nailed but still need to do some mockups to know.

[xerxes]

The linked player is nice if you are into that type of style, I am not

I know what you mean, it's certainly not understated, but regardless of the "styling" the standard of finish is superb. Having said that, I think a tripod design is good for stands etc., much easier to level than anything with 4 feet and inherantly stable provided the base is large enough.

With regard to the linked tablet PC player, this is something I've been interested in for a while. I already have a spare PC I've put together from parts I had left over after upgrading my main PC. I deliberately selected quiet components so that the finished PC is virtually silent and ideal for music server duties. I just need to find the right USB enabled DAC at the right price to try it out. There is one at www.audiodiylab.com/ that looks interesting. It uses two PCM1794 DACs in dual mono configuration offering upsampling to 24bit/192Khz. It's still in development at the moment and I will wait to see some feedback from the first builders before I take the plunge, but it's currently high on my list of possible candidates.

soon,very soon.am in the process of a total system cosmetic redesign so that each individual unit looks like it was a planned part of the whole rather than a haphazard after thought.I THINK I have the final cosmetics nailed but still need to do some mockups to know.

Excellent, I really like to see what other people have made. Unlike Mike, pictures of PCBs don't "do it for me", but I do like to see the weird and whacky things some people come up with. I actually took my degree in Product Design, so I guess I'm more interested in the look and feel, fit form and functionality of products than some. Having said that, I would allways buy an audio product with my ears rather than my eyes. I also appreciate that producing a one off, beautifully engineered case from great slabs of CNC machined aluminium or exotic hardwoods, quickly gets very expensive and will end up costing far more than the components in them.

[rickcr42]

I also appreciate that producing a one off, beautifully engineered case from great slabs of CNC machined aluminium or exotic hardwoods, quickly gets very expensive and will end up costing far more than the components in them.

DIY does allow for a certain artistic freedom that even mods do not allow with the billet aluminum or exotic hardwoods not only many times making a good "look" but performing double duty as resonance control with the one being mostly inert due to the high mass and the other a substance that has a pleasing "tone" to the vibration decay profile.

Where this becomes more pain in the ass than a good thing is when you try to make everything work at the system level at which time you find no two things will fit on the same shelf,will stack or even look right in combination so where the "form follows function" has to depart to be replaced with "I expect to have A-B-C-D in use together and need to make this happen" which replaces the individual look with a systemic design where EVERYTHING comes into play :

1-heat generation and air flow around the device
2-impedances to determine interconnect length (I do a lot of passive crap )
3-Control layout and access (what controls do I use daily,what are no more than a one time set-up control and can be placed on the rear panel)
4-size-is the "thing" a stand alone device or part of a mini-grouping ?
5-Cost and availability.This is the real bitch part of it and why I am at the re-design point AGAIN though this time cosmetics only.Having the idea is just part of it with actually trying to find a commercial part that makes it reality step #1 then actually finding that part for sale at a reasonable price part #2 and why you either see one single very cool audio device that has no shot at looking right in any system even though it looks cool alone or most gear looking just like all the other gear because of the availability of reasonably priced chassis.

Custom route-hard work and expensive/Stock part route-easy but boring


I am trying to walk a line between both-cheap commercial chassis jazzed up with wood accents and exotic knobery and all the while it must work in the context of system.this is the truly hard part of DIY.Getting something to look as good as it sounds

[xerxes]

exotic knobery

Another one for the Ricktionary.