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Post by musicmanic on Nov 8, 2015 22:28:46 GMT
Hi guys,
I switched on my X-Can v2 today and it was dead. So I changed the mains plug fuse to see if it were that. No. I changed the Little Pinkie fuse and the Little Pinkie came on. As soon as I fed the X-Can v2 the fuse blew inside the Little Pinkie.
Does this have anything to do with the tubes? Do they need changing? I got a slight shock from the mains plug when I tried to change the fuse, so a charge has obviously built up there. Does that mean there's an earthing problem?
All has been working fine since I had the X-Can upgrade and bought the Little Pinkie.
Any Ideas?
Thanks
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Post by musicmanic on Nov 8, 2015 22:36:11 GMT
Just a quick update. I changed the mains plug and still the same result, so I dug out my original X-Can v2 (non modified) and nothing is blowing now.
What do I need to do with my modified X-Can v2?
I've noticed I'm using a 3 Amp fuse for my Mains plug and a 250mA for the Little Pinkie. Is that ok?
Thanks
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jc
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Post by jc on Nov 8, 2015 23:31:07 GMT
PinkFloyd is the man that knows these units inside out and I'm sure he'll be looking in when he gets a moment.
In the meantime, if you could completely disconnect and open up the offending X-cans, take some good quality pictures of the boards (components sides and solder side) and post them here. My first guess would be a short circuit of some kind, whether that be solder-work, track or failed component.
If you did the mods yourself then have a good close look over the boards and see if can spot anything that looks iffy. Scorch marks, bulging or leaking capacitors etc.
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Post by musicmanic on Nov 9, 2015 0:54:45 GMT
All looks in order. Didn't smell like anything has burnt out, although there was a smell of something like the components. Here's some files: postimg.org/gallery/1ca1gcfr8/38acfead/Pink Floyd did the mod for me and it's sounded great. Thanks |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2015 1:09:12 GMT
All looks in order. Didn't smell like anything has burnt out, although there was a smell of something like the components. Here's some files: postimg.org/gallery/1ca1gcfr8/38acfead/Pink Floyd did the mod for me and it's sounded great. Thanks Check R113 and R115 (10 ohms) for signs of overheating. It is not unknown for the Output transistors to fail, although there could be other causes that would need to be verified using a Digital Meter. |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Nov 13, 2015 21:21:15 GMT
Hi James, That's your amp all ready to go back to you, no charge for my time. I immediately spotted the failed polystyrene capacitor on the diode and that was what the problem was..... I snipped it off and will snip the rest of them off before sending your amp back to you. They're not necessary / superfluous and are possibly little time bombs that will fail again so, to ensure they don't, I'll call in the bomb squad and have them safely removed from the circuit  You can see the offending culprit here:  I matched you up a perfect pair (matched triodes) of Voskhod 6H23N valves and your V2 is sounding sublime..... I whipped the crappy plastic valve sockets out and replaced them with good quality gold plated ceramic types, they have a much tighter grip / better contact.  I went over the rest of the amp and it's 100% perfect in all respects...... how many years ago was it since I modded it? I can "vaguely" remember it but it seems a long time ago? It was certainly a bit different than my norm (in a good way) with the 3300uF caps and the "cap dampers"...... jeez, that must be 8 years ago? There is nothing that I would change (apart from the polystyrene time bombs!) you've got yourself a damned nice amp there James..... no scorch marks on the boards, a lovely clean example  Anyhoo, to cut to the chase...... she lives!   I'll package her up in the morning and will get her in the post to you when I'm in town tomorrow afternoon. There are no collections up here (FAR north of Scotland) on a Saturday so it will leave the post office on Monday and will be with you on Tuesday or Wednesday. Rest easy, it will return sounding better than it ever has By the way..... I'll pop a couple of fuses into the package for you (250mA / time delay / SIBA) for the poor old Pinkie You won't need "two" but it's always good to have a spare to hand. Thank god that Pinkie did his job or you'd be looking at a pile of burnt toast instead of listening to your music  All the best, Mike. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 21:41:50 GMT
Mike
Have you had polystyrenes fail previously ? I have only had tantalums go s/c despite being well within their ratings.
Kind Regards
Alex
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Post by PinkFloyd on Nov 13, 2015 22:08:07 GMT
Mike Have you had polystyrenes fail previously ? I have only had tantalums go s/c despite being well within their ratings. Kind Regards Alex Hi Alex...... in one word....... "never"! I was quite shocked to see that one go SC...... I think it's had about 8 years duty but, STILL, that's nothing..... they should live forever. I'm glad that it did go though as it only took me 30 seconds to pinpoint the cause of the short circuit, it's always good when you can see / smell a bad component....... those silent buggers that don't scream are the hardest to trace The polystyrenes I employed in James's application were RIFA (Evox) so, VERY good quality........ I must admit, it was the last thing I would expect to fail BUT it was the first thing my eye noticed when I opened the package. The particular diode that it failed on happens to be the "hottest" diode on the board so that may explain the failure after 8 years sitting on top of it. I was wrong anyway..... slapping a capacitor onto a UF4007 was nothing more than eye candy...... it did no harm but it also did no good (or did it?). Anyhoo, one failure is one failure too many. Mike. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2015 22:20:10 GMT
Hi Mike I think you just nailed it. That brand is very reliable.
Kind Regards Alex
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Post by PinkFloyd on Nov 13, 2015 22:29:08 GMT
Hi Mike I think you just nailed it. That brand is very reliable.
Kind Regards Alex
I know EVOX / Rifa / KEMET are top quality. |
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Post by musicmanic on Nov 14, 2015 3:30:29 GMT
Thanks Mike, that explains the smell when I opened it.
You modded it for me in 2011 I believe. It's on your forum mod page still. Does the short explain why I got a shock from the mains plug when I touched the pins while changing the fuse?
I'm no expert but I guess if I didn't have the pinkie I would be worse off right?
Could you tell me why an event like this shorts a circuit rather than not switch on at all. I guess the short circuit is created by the pin of the amp's in and the pinkies cable right?
Sorry I'm no expert on electronics but I'd like to know what happens for safety reasons. I do use the amp quite a lot and I guess the heat caused the problem. Thank God I bought the Pinkie.
Anyways a big thank you and I can't wait to hear it sound " better ". The bass is sublime and I get a lot of clarity across the frequency range.
Great job.
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Post by musicmanic on Nov 14, 2015 3:43:30 GMT
Just, another quick question Mike.
I have some standard quick blow fuses in the pinkie now. Is there a difference with the SIBA ones?
Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2015 3:52:56 GMT
Did you remove the mains plug from the AC mains socket before attempting to change the fuse ?
Depending on the type of fuse holder used, you may get a shock when doing this if you touch the fuse or the contacts of the fuse holder . You should always unplug a mains powered device before replacing a fuse, or at the very least switch the device off at it's on/off switch.
Alex |
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Post by musicmanic on Nov 15, 2015 1:15:29 GMT
Did you remove the mains plug from the AC mains socket before attempting to change the fuse ?
Depending on the type of fuse holder used, you may get a shock when doing this if you touch the fuse or the contacts of the fuse holder . You should always unplug a mains powered device before replacing a fuse, or at the very least switch the device off at it's on/off switch.
Alex Yes the cable had been unplugged from the mains and the device but there was still a charge when I changed the fuse(clip in type)and touched the pins while holding it. I guess it was due to the short caused by the faulty X Can but I guess that the fuse bowing in the Pinkie created the short and left a charge. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2015 1:32:51 GMT
Did you remove the mains plug from the AC mains socket before attempting to change the fuse ?
Depending on the type of fuse holder used, you may get a shock when doing this if you touch the fuse or the contacts of the fuse holder . You should always unplug a mains powered device before replacing a fuse, or at the very least switch the device off at it's on/off switch.
Alex Yes the cable had been unplugged from the mains and the device but there was still a charge when I changed the fuse(clip in type)and touched the pins while holding it. I guess it was due to the short caused by the faulty X Can but I guess that the fuse bowing in the Pinkie created the short and left a charge. In that case, the most that you could have received was a harmless low voltage shock from a charged capacitor.
Alex
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Post by PinkFloyd on Nov 15, 2015 11:39:46 GMT
Yes the cable had been unplugged from the mains and the device but there was still a charge when I changed the fuse(clip in type)and touched the pins while holding it. I guess it was due to the short caused by the faulty X Can but I guess that the fuse bowing in the Pinkie created the short and left a charge. In that case, the most that you could have received was a harmless low voltage shock from a charged capacitor.
Alex
It's the across the line class X2 capacitor |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2015 20:58:02 GMT
The actual voltage across that capacitor would depend on the RMS value of the AC waveform at the time the fuse blew, and with such a small value capacitor, the current supplied momentarily would be very low ?
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Post by musicmanic on Nov 16, 2015 19:43:34 GMT
The actual voltage across that capacitor would depend on the RMS value of the AC waveform at the time the fuse blew, and with such a small value capacitor, the current supplied momentarily would be very low ? Thanks that helps me understand what's going on now. No danger now! |
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Post by musicmanic on Nov 18, 2015 0:23:54 GMT
Mike (Pink Floyd) I can't tell you how happy I am today. I received my baby today and I've been listening for a couple of hours today and from the word go the
sound is absolutely beautiful. You were right about the bass Mike, absolutely unreal. So tight and the stereo image and depth is so much more visible. The separation
between the instruments is so clear,
I've been listening through the AKG's 712 pro.
Thanks again Mike
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Post by PinkFloyd on Nov 18, 2015 21:10:18 GMT
Mike (Pink Floyd) I can't tell you how happy I am today. I received my baby today and I've been listening for a couple of hours today and from the word go the sound is absolutely beautiful. You were right about the bass Mike, absolutely unreal. So tight and the stereo image and depth is so much more visible. The separation between the instruments is so clear, I've been listening through the AKG's 712 pro. Thanks again Mike Hi James, It's not "magic" and I'm not a "Guru", It's quite simply a matter of utilising the best parts for the job in hand. Of course, that takes years of experience and "hands on" knowledge so I may have reached "guru" status but am not yet aware of it I precision matched a pair of 6H23N for your amp James....... am I a Guru? No! A precision match essentially means you have a TRUCKLOAD of valves to hand and have the analytical equipment to hand to sort the wheat from the chaff. Once you have sorted the wheat from the chaff it's a case of going in depth with each valve on an individual basis, seriously. The two that I fitted into your amp were spot on. Tube 1: Side one: Gain 37.9 / Side two: 37.9 Tube 2: Side one: Gain 37.4 / Side two: 37.5 Enjoy the music James. Mike. |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Nov 18, 2015 21:32:59 GMT
The actual voltage across that capacitor would depend on the RMS value of the AC waveform at the time the fuse blew, and with such a small value capacitor, the current supplied momentarily would be very low ? With a class X2 100nF across the line (L/N) and you happen to "palm" the L/N prongs on a mains plug you will most definitely get a tingle...... much the same as a mouth buzz from tonguing a PP9...... Mike. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2015 21:44:17 GMT
The actual voltage across that capacitor would depend on the RMS value of the AC waveform at the time the fuse blew, and with such a small value capacitor, the current supplied momentarily would be very low ? With a class X2 100nF across the line (L/N) and you happen to "palm" the L/N prongs on a mains plug you will most definitely get a tingle...... much the same as a mouth buzz from tonguing a PP9...... Mike. Mike What does a PP9 taste like ? (grin) O.K. I agree with that, as many including myself, have noticed similar from low voltage batteries, but it does suggest that the stored charge is quite low and completely harmless. You can get similar (or worse) by touching the DC output of a SMPS plugpack (either side) with one hand, and an earthed appliance's metalwork with the other hand.
Kind Regards Alex
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Post by PinkFloyd on Nov 21, 2015 21:20:17 GMT
With a class X2 100nF across the line (L/N) and you happen to "palm" the L/N prongs on a mains plug you will most definitely get a tingle...... much the same as a mouth buzz from tonguing a PP9...... Mike. Mike What does a PP9 taste like ? (grin) O.K. I agree with that, as many including myself, have noticed similar from low voltage batteries, but it does suggest that the stored charge is quite low and completely harmless. You can get similar (or worse) by touching the DC output of a SMPS plugpack (either side) with one hand, and an earthed appliance's metalwork with the other hand.
Kind Regards Alex
Have you never licked the terminals on a PP9 Alex? It tastes a bit metallic with an added ZING!!!!We used to do it at school..... everybody would put 10 pence into the pot and the boy who could keep his tongue on the terminals the longest would win the pot. I could keep my tongue on the terminals for about 2 seconds but there was a black boy called Conrad Morgan who could keep his tongue on the terminals for AGES (all day long he claimed). He was the only black boy in the school and the competition stopped as soon as he won the money..... nobody could compete with his ability to "tongue" a PP9 for such a prolonged period. I remember some gossip (at the time) that he was "black" because he was electrocuted at birth and, thus, immune to electric shocks but, looking back, that was a lot of bollocks..... he was black because he was from Jamaica. That was back in the very early seventies and Conrad was the only black boy in the school....... I left London in 1993 and there was not "one" white child in the school and not ONE white member of staff, the entire school was afro caribbean / Asian origin, that's got nothing to do with PP9 batteries by the way, I just thought I'd mention it. Last I heard about Conrad, a few years before I left London, he had changed his name to "Conrad Word" and was (apparently) quite the name in the warehouse dub scene (whatever the hell that was!)...... he was a lovely guy and he went down really well at my 12th birthday party, I'll never forget my Father saying "you could get a years worth of chewing gum out of that one"....... I asked him what he meant (I was only 12) and he said "they make chewing gum out of darkies toenails"...... oh god, I now had the knowledge that black people were "black" because they had been electrocuted at birth and their toenails were Wrigleys main ingredient! I was so naive as a 12 year old back in 1973, nowhere near as clued up as todays' 12 year old, I HONESTLY believed that Juicy Fruit and Double mint was made from Darkies toenails..... my Dad even "proved" it when I questioned him in later years: "they swing about in the trees and their toenails are long and bendy so they can get a good grip on the branches"...... I believed that until I was 16 and then started to have doubts Remember, Alex, back in the day a packet of chewing gum was a packet of chewing gum..... there was no sell buy date and there was no "list of ingredients" on the packaging...... all that was on the packet was "Wrigley Juicy Fruit" so you didn't know (or care) WHAT it was made from..... all you needed to know was, it tasted good and it was chewing gum....... full of delicious sugar I may add! What's all this bollocks these days? Gluten free chewing gum? What's that all about? If you take a fit chewing gum then it's a simple case of avoiding gum you whining bastard! Nut free products? If you have an allergy to nuts there's something wrong with you, you're a freak, you can't sue a Brazil nut if you take a wobbly fit you weird bastard! You can't beat the PP9...... it is / was the most majestic of batteries..... do you see children these days licking the PP9 terminals to win an extra bit of pocket money? No, they are too busy licking each others genitals and "sexting" on their pre paid top of the range luxury 'phones to be bothered with good old fashioned fun such as tonguing a PP9. The western world has gone to the dogs, there is no such thing as childhood, we are soon to become slaves to Asian rule / depravity........ the sad reality is that these people will GLADLY convert our toenails into chewing gum and will be MORE than happy to offer us a new "generation" of communication. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2015 21:48:50 GMT
Hi Mike We were the lucky ones. The traffic wasn't too heavy back then, and you could ride your scooter at breakneck speeds down what are now very busy roads, on the way to my grandparents house, and play with their Border Collie in the backyard near their chook house. I can even remember playing outside in bright sunlight in the backyard, due to Daylight Saving which was still in force after the start of WW2, and my mother trying to get us back in the house because it was getting late, playing marbles with friends, and playing cricket in the middle of the street, and bonfires in the street on Empire Day with all the neighbours there. There was also the wonderful Saturday afternoon movies at the local bug house, rolling Jaffas down the aisle and things like that. I also remember , not long after starting with PMG Dept. , replacing HUGE 1.5V batteries used with some extension phones. Drop one on your foot and you would know it !
Regards Alex P.S. I have since learnt that kids are kids, no matter where they were born. It's how they are brought up that matters, nothing else.
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jc
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Post by jc on Nov 22, 2015 0:34:38 GMT
Hah! I'm just old enough to STILL use my tongue as a first test for a PP9! If it can power up a tongue it's good to go.
Our parents would only worry if were late for a meal ( we were well versed in self protection though ). A bobby could still clip us 'round the lug'ole too.
I agree with all this this allergy faff too, I have one (it's actually an "intolerance") to garlic. So I don't eat it, simples.
WAMMO! Right between the eyes, bullseye, hole in one. Namby pamby parents raise socially mal-adjusted freaks.
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