Don't shout at me I bought an ipod!

[PinkFloyd]

I've always hated the concept of MP3 and have always considered these people who walk about with headphones plugged into their ears listening to music from these little white devices as SHEEP

So, what do I do? Like a SHEEP I go and buy one of these bloody things Reason? No particular reason other than I thought it would be a good idea to lay down all of my CDs onto hard disk and be able to carry all of my "tunes" about with me. Not for "on the move" listening but for overnight stays in B&B's etc.

Well, I must admit it's a pretty addictive little gadget and good fun "ripping" all of my CDs onto it. Sound quality? it's hard to tell at the moment as all I have at my disposal are Senn HD-600, Senn HD-200 and AKG-K501 all of which (I've been reliably informed) are not the best 'phones to use with the ipod. I've ordered a pair of the el cheapo Senn PX-100 which should give me a better idea of what it sounds like (the stock 'phones are shite) but it doesn't sound half bad with the HD-200..... not "breathtaking" or the last word in hi fidelity but, for what it is, not bad at all

Anyone else here with one? If so it'd be interesting to know what 'phones you use with it etc.

[Stormy]

I use 64 ohm HD-280 Pros and the old HD-600s with my 3rd Gen iPod with no real problems. The output is a little quiet with 300 ohm headphones, but I have found a little utility called "iPodVolumeBooster" for the Mac that lets you double the output power of the headphone amp without distorting the music (not the same as whacking the gain up in the song's properties on your computer beforehand - never do that, it sounds shite for obvious reasons.), at the cost of battery life. I'm sure there must be something similar on the dreaded PC.
It is possible to use the iPod with formats other than MP3 and AAC - WAV, AIFF and Apple Lossless are all suported and work well if you are worried about the sound quality. Granted that won't help the quality of the headphone amplifier in the iPod, but at least it's being fed good quality information at that point.

My old earbuds that came with my iPod in 2003 seemed to be pretty much on a par with the Sennheiser MX400s I replaced them with (I was trying to avoid advertsising myself to muggers with white 'phones). I have since bought and lost some MX500s after losing my original Apple headphones and giving my MX400s to my little brother, but I didn't compare them. What is it with me and losing in-ear 'phones? I would love some Shures or Etymotics, but I'm dreading losing £60+ headphones.

[PinkFloyd]

stormy said:

It is possible to use the iPod with formats other than MP3 and AAC - WAV, AIFF and Apple Lossless are all suported and work well if you are worried about the sound quality. Granted that won't help the quality of the headphone amplifier in the iPod, but at least it's being fed good quality information at that point.

I've been copying my CDs to "itunes" using AAC (320kbps) but already that's 1.4gb gone and that's only 8 albums I've copied to the pod! I'm not really bothered about absolute SQ with this device and would be quite happy with the equivalent of FM broadcast quality as I won't be using this with my audiophile ears on....... more of a toe tapping casual listen type thing when I'm away from home overnight...... I've tried "ripping" (god I hate that word for some reason) in MP3 format @ 192kbps and it's good enough for the job it'll be doing.

I've only had the pod for 2 days so am totally new to this type of thing and any suggestions, tips or tweaks would be most welcome. Best quality sound for as small a file size as possible is what I'm after.

Also, is there an alternative to this "itunes" thing or should I say a "better" alternative without all this podcast shite and bulit in ishop crap. I'd, ideally want to use two seperate computers to "rip" my CD from, again is this possible or will I have to deauthorise the computer it's registered on?

All the best.

Mike.

My old earbuds that came with my iPod in 2003 seemed to be pretty much on a par with the Sennheiser MX400s I replaced them with (I was trying to avoid advertsising myself to muggers with white 'phones). I have since bought and lost some MX500s after losing my original Apple headphones and giving my MX400s to my little brother, but I didn't compare them. What is it with me and losing in-ear 'phones? I would love some Shures or Etymotics, but I'm dreading losing £60+ headphones.

[rickcr42]

Well NOW you gone and done it dammit !

Since there is no going back it is time to do the "iPOD 101 according to Rickmonster" course so without further disseminating....................

1-use the lossless format only
2-build/buy/borrow/steal a USB DAC
3-Download ASIO4ALL
4-hook up the whole shootin' match to your big rig
5-shoot yourself for buying the damn thing which is just another brick in the Steve Jobs wall

[xerxes]

Well, I wasn't a total sheep, I've got a Sony MP3 dookhickey and I use a pair of Senn PX100's with it. Sound quality of it is OK for on the move, but it certainly isn't going to replace the proper system. I rate the the Senn PX100's though, for small lightweight 'phones I reckon the'yre great, with a bit of emphasis in the bass which adds a bit of weight to weedy sources.

[rickcr42]

BTW Mike,supposedly the Apple lossy compression format sounds as good if not better than CDs when used with a proper USB DAC so you need to do a mini review about your impressions.

I still won't buy one being no fan of digital in general and having al the "toys" I need but am intersted just because

[Stormy]

In my experience, iTunes is the best one for use WITH an iPod. There might be slightly better ones for use with other players or as a standalone, but the interface is pretty straightforward and I like it.

You can turn off most of the stuff you don't want (Music Store links, Podcasts, Videos) in the options menu.

You can use two or more machines to rip your music, as it is only the AAC format stuff bought from the Music Store that has DRM on it and needs to be authorised/de-authorised. Anything you rip yourself, even in AAC will be DRM-free.

From what I have read, a USB DAC might not work because the iPod doesn't actually send music in a form that can be understood by a DAC down the USB cable. This is a major failing with the iPod in my eyes - it really needs a digital audio output. If you find that it will actually work with a USB DAC, please let me know - I have been struggling on with a noisy line-out from the Dock for far too long now.

[marcm09]

good on you mike, hope you got the ipod video
I know that the next version dur to be released soon will be wireless, not too sure if it will have the same audio quality for us audio freaks, I have also seen a prototype ipod video on the net where the whole front face is totally screen with touch screen controls, interesting.

Anyway, apparently the 4th gen ipod was the best sounding and that the 5th gen was a very slight step back in SQ (according to my what hifi mag, but still 5 star rated).

There is an audio shop in town and the owner has an ipod there and I was talking tpo him about if it was anygood thru his hifi setup that he has it running thru. His comments were yes its very good- have a listen thru some of this quite high end gear.

Yes it sounded very good, he was using apple lostless and pretty much between his mac and the ipod was using it for music storage.

He said to get the powered doc as the output sounds alot nicer, he ran a silver wired (I know mike!) 3.5mm to RCA lead by slinkylinks into his preamp.

The other source was his apple laptop (Pc would be same). He uses the USB as an ouput - rather that the soundcard, with a outboard DAC to RCA output and then to the amp.

I happened to listen to this setup when he was trying to sell be a set of grados (I brought the senn's instead). The dac was running into a pre and then into the perreaux shx2 (made here in NZ) and then into the grado, it did however sound very good.

good luck I'm keen to try to build a dac with usb input and rca output - if easily possiable ? I currently have a 3.5mm to rca from my sound car to my amp in the lounge which runs under the house and is 5 meters, but im not too happy with the quality. I know it wont have the sparkle of the Cd player but expect that iot was be better outputting it from the usb into a dac !

comments and thoughs anyone ...

[rickcr42]

From what I have read, a USB DAC might not work because the iPod doesn't actually send music in a form that can be understood by a DAC down the USB cable

The iPOD itself no but the apple lossless software for ripping all CDs to your computer yes is my understanding (will definately come up to speed on this by later today )

The culprit getting in the way of good USB is Windows K-Mixer but there are ways around it and the claim is made (no personal hands on yet) this is the best so far that digital music has produced

www.asio4all.com/

a good blow by blow

www.wavelengthaudio.com/usbdac.html

I have been struggling on with a noisy line-out from the Dock for far too long now

then you should find this little project interesting :

www.tonepad.com/images/photoessays/231.jpg

www.tonepad.com/project.asp?id=55

cheap,easy build due to standard parts and low count,pcb layou usable with press n' peel blue..........

[rickcr42]

good luck I'm keen to try to build a dac with usb input and rca output - if easily possiable ?

PCM2702/PCM2704 chips.

The '02 has analog out only,the '04 adds the capability to use a spdif out to drive a standard spdif input DAC bypassing the DAC out section of the chip.Easy to work with using adapter boards and has a low parts count overall built straight from the TI eval-board sheet but I beleive the best way to go for a "ready to rock" kit is the Hagerman

www.hagtech.com/hagusb.html

be hard to beat that price and quality point anywhere except maybe from a questionable "DIY for Profit type" or even worse ebay.The reason I say this is i have followed many threads on these designs and it has come to me they mostly have no clue and the fact that a product even works at the end more accidental than science.

Jim Hagerman is a papered EE that KNOWS what is bullshit and what is sound design work and since the price is more than competitive I would personally go with wheta i know to be a solid product over an iffy one from a hobbyist with questionable skills designing by comittee

just my personal opinion

[marcm09]

looks good, my current connection really is shocking and i'm not even bothering to use use it !

[rickcr42]

well there is always the "Ultimate iPOD" to consider

[rickcr42]

or just stick to CD's

[PinkFloyd]

Funny stuff Rick where do you find all these goodies?

I'm still waiting for these Sennheiser PX-100's to arrive, don't you just hate these casual bastards on ebay who grab your money FAST and then come out with "oh, I won't be able to make it to the post office until next week, I may be able to........." Really annoys me that! Anyways, they're on their way apparantly ;D

As to this ipod it's a great little music storage device but this DRM lark is a pile of crap. So you mean to tell me if my hard drive packs in with 200 CD's on it I have to import them all "again" into the ipod? That's just ridiculous.

I installed itunes on my laptop and exported the library from my computer over to it. Plugged the ipod in and everything was wiped from it......... charming! Oh well, that's "progress" for you..... make everything as un-user friendly and inconvenient as possible and charge the earth for the priviledge.

[rickcr42]

As to this ipod it's a great little music storage device but this DRM lark is a pile of crap. So you mean to tell me if my hard drive packs in with 200 CD's on it I have to import them all "again" into the ipod? That's just ridiculous.

first time in the history of consumer electronics the public has gone for a monopoly format hook line and sinker.

Sony Betamax failed because they kept the technology "in house" so you had to purchase a Sony Machine to enjoy the fruits of video recording in the home and the sole reason why the inferior but "open source" VHS machines won the day,the CD was in limbo until SONY and PHILLIPS partnered up then "opened" up or we would have a very different audio world.

The examples of similair "one company builds the product so buy it or go without" attitudes litter the trash heap of good ideas never quite making it to popularity/mass production yet here we are in an age where consumers have MORE available information,are on [paper SMARTER than previous generations (a lie BTW proven daily) and sould be more savvy but proving the human race is going backwards by not only buying in but like you said in the opener "sheep".......and we all know what a Wolf (Apple/iPOD) will do to a sheep

Pathetic and the only reason I will NEVER buy an iPOD until or unless there are manufacturing options available to me.France has it all wrong in their attempt to force Apple to release the source codes by force of law just as the idiots buying these things in masse are wrong (you too bucko ) because if the product did not sell unless the rules changed then the rules WOULD change while as long as the profits roll in and the playing field scewed in apple's favor foget it.

It is we consumers who allow such things and we don't need a law to make it right unless they pass a law that makes being an idiot illegal ;D

[rickcr42]

where do you find all these goodies?

twisted minds have a way of always finding each other,almost as if we have some twisted mental connection or better yet-ESP (evil sensory perception )

[PinkFloyd]

I really only bought this to see what it was all about and I certainly won't be buying another one in future Rick. Jesus, you have to pay an extra £35 for a "remote control" which adds a radio to the thing.....I mean, a "remote control" for something that's smaller than an average remote control?? what a bloody joke

[rickcr42]

getting a bit out of hand folks

www.audiovideointeriors.com/thebuzz/1105buzz/

What I feared would happen due to the former popularity of the MP3 where some had the balls to say 128 bit compression sounded AS GOOD as their CD player and actually mean it because they were clueless and never had been expeosed to true high end audio may now take place with the iPOD

When I read all the bitching about how bad the music industry is and how modern recording engineers have no clue,how compression is overused to squash dynamics then in the next paragraph read " I use my ipod for all my music needs" or "my cell phone sounds as good as my portable CD player with headphones" I want to slap someone because I KNOW this is not only a widely held view but those having this viewpoint are the very ones who purchase the most recorded music and if THEY are satisfied with less then we are all in trouble when the big labels actually give the public what they want

[rickcr42]

BTW-this last line scares the shit out of me because I know for a fact and from experience each generation of "improvement" has been anything but no matter what the press says or how many engineers come out with white papers telling my I am nuts or it is me just not listening correctly

Brente Esry, installer of the theater on our November print cover (page 88), "iPod-like devices capture the sound of the music but not the soul." Interestingly, he predicts that eventually the audio quality on iPods and other players will be as good as that of CD and even DVD

Well shit ! I guess i can now toss my vinyl rig and my analog tape rig into the trash because if the iPod is better than the "perfect sound forever" of the CD and the "way better than CD plus we can give you multiple channel"s of the DVD WTF is the point of me using this out dated and sonically inferior medium other than pure stubborness ;D



.

[rickcr42]

Hey mad mike,came across this and thought of you

www.vonwentzel.net/ABS/

wifi is definately cool and my wife is buggin the shit out of me to set some kind of system up and running so maybe I will become part of the iPOD Generation too when I grow up

**Edit**

read this for background


www.apple.com/airportexpress/









.

[PinkFloyd]

Interesting Rick. Seriously man you should get an ipod (or similar) I was out washing the car today with the thing strapped onto my belt and it was a most pleasurable experience quite similar to the good old Walkman but without the hiss.

I've now transferred about 120 of my CD's over to the ipod and the ease of access to tracks and the size of the thing never ceases to amaze me........ so much so I can truthfully say I "enjoy" this piece of equipment and that's what it's all about.

With Senn PX-100 the sound is what I would describe as warm and euphonic so I think you would like very much. My only major gripe is the internal battery which is not accessible so when it's dead you're looking at either sending it to Apple to get a new battery (and even then they send you a reconditioned ipod and not your own one with a new battery) or dumping it and buying a new one. Battery lifespan is reported as being anything from 1 year to two years so this is one area of the ipod which I find lacking. It would have been so much better if they'd fitted a battery hatch where you could have replaced it yourself..........

Anyways, well worth getting one man

[kittenyberk]

admin said:

It would have been so much better if they'd fitted a battery hatch where you could have replaced it yourself..........

ISTR it's possible to replace the battery, and after a year the warranty is gone anyway, so you may as well

[rickcr42]

Anyways, well worth getting one man

my problem is not ther player itself or the technology,never was,but the single source closed door "Apple or suck ass" aspect.

imagine if all CD players were either a Sony or a Phillips product (joint developers of the Redbook CD format) with ZERO choices from any other manufacturer.Where would the CD be now ?

what about if ALL turnatables had to be an RCA ?

Or all analog tape Magnecorder if reel tape and Advent if cassette ?

how about every single car FM radio on the planet a Delco ?

(just examples to illustrate)

how about every single other format ever invented solely in the hands of the company that developed it with no options for player product choices if you want to buy into the technology itself !

Humans were way smarter at one time and would take a pass on any such attempts at a monopoly yet here is a prime example of not just allowing it but by perpetuating it in such numbers leaving the impression this is a proper path to profits and if you think others are not watching then telling their R&D depatments to get busy on competing "closed" formats you don't know shit about how things work in the real world.

Extrapolating such "successes" I can see a very real possible future where we would not just be buying a "name" product but the name and function will be one where if you want to play a certain format you need THAT particular player or go pound salt up your ass and wish

My son has an ipod and there is much to like but the business practice smacks of protectionism and the more products that are sold the less chance anything will change so i will continue to cast "no" vote as my owqn personal protest even though it means nothing.


BTW-I find it extremely dishonest that so many that have no problem with the way apple does business on this product are many times the very same that have a problem with the way microsoft protects its software code but the difference the way i see it is one has total control from every aspect of competition while microsoft leases the actual product for use on the platforms made by MANY competing manufacturers so we in the end have CHOICES when it comes time to purchase a new computer while the ipod is a take it or leave it thing.

I pass

[Stormy]

www.ukipodrepairs.com/ are very cheap compared with Apple, or you can go the DIY route:

secure1.sonnettech.com/product_info.php?cPath=71_74&products_id=159&osCsid=9ec3cca0ddd651a144ae66ac2d6572e5

Sonnet don't seem to make a video iPod battery yet, but it's only a matter of time. It comes with tools and instructions, and $30 for a new 4th Gen battery is pretty good, even when we Brits seem to get stung for the same amount in pounds with these sorts of things.

Rick, I'm not entirely sure what you mean about Apple having a monopoly - they are by no means the only manufacturers of portable MP3 players, they're just the market leaders (partly because they have the budget to advertise themselves more than the competition). Having played with other similar devices by Creative Labs among others, I have to say that I prefer the way the iPod interface works, but part of that stems from Apple discovering a good layout first and other companies trying to do the best they can while avoiding the lawsuits they'd have to face if they just ripped it off. That and the fact that I had already become used to using an iPod.

Argh! I'm now a moderator? What does this entail?

[rickcr42]

Argh! I'm now a moderator? What does this entail?

it means you are screwed dude ! You will be hated far and wide across all continents unless you take the "Huh waht ? was that my job ?" approach

Rick, I'm not entirely sure what you mean about Apple having a monopoly - they are by no means the only manufacturers of portable MP3 players,

most "audiophiles" do not use MP3 but have no problem with apple Lossless compression so pretty much where i am/was going with it.that "code" would allow competing playback machines which always makes for both more features and better pricing simply due to there being competition for the dollar (or whatever the local currency )

sony got burned badly when their far superior Beta format lost to VHS in the video recorder format wars and the only reason they lost was because they were not allowing other manufacturers to build the hardware.VHS went to open source so won the day when there were choices with said choices causing the former $1000 per player price tage to come down to where the average consumer had a shot which was the dawn of the home theater as a viable living room presence.

Next up were the long since relegated to the trash heap laser disc players.Competing formats left the average consumer waiting for things to settle before laying out the greenbacks while those who could afford to purchased both machines from the competing formats and every bit of software as it came out.Where are the laser disc player now ?

Dust is where.

the early days of the CD were the same.sony working on one format,phillips on another with various strays trying to be "the one" but sony learned from the betamax fiasco and rather than compete head to head with phillips they pooled resources and made what we now know as the redbook CD which pretty much tossed all other formats to the trash heap once sony purchased columbiua records and announce the LP would no longer be used for new music,that all forthcoming releases would now be on the "perfect music forever" CD format.

DVD ?

Joint effort.

SACD/DVD-A ?

Still fighting it out,consumers still sitting on the fence,both will fail.

The history of audio says if you want a universal format it must be both accessable to everyone and reasonable in price which means choices otherwise only the wealthy will buy in because they must have everything anyway just because but average joe wants things to be stable or he is not parting with his hard earned cash...........................until now.........................