Vallejos
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Post by Vallejos on Aug 3, 2014 13:22:53 GMT
I'm in the market for buying a dac/headphone amp that also works as pre amp. It has gotta have USB in for computer and NAS. So I have filtered it down to Naim dac-v1 and Burson Conductor. I have only read reviews and tests so for the difference in audio quality I have to listen to both the contenders before making any decisions. But never the less it would be appreciated with inputs in the matter.
My thoughts so far, on the two dacs/amps are this:
Naim has a slightly better standard for USB handling than Burson. (Don't know if that really matters?)
Naim has a remot control, Burson don't.
Most people agree to that Burson has a superior audio quality over Naim.
Naim has a god damn killer looks ;-) Burson looks good but not in the same ball game as the beauty Naim :-)
Burson seems to be much more upgrade friendly and has the choice to swap the dac between two different PCBs. The ESS SABRE32 DAC- ESS9018 References DAC PCB and the Burr Brown- PCM1793 DAC PCB. Two different sounds...
Burson seems to deliver more amp power than Naim, for cans that need more power.
The Naim is here in Sweden 4000 SEK (≈ £346 / $583) lower in price to the Burson.
I'm gonna use the unit in my hifi speaker system and with my Sennheiser HD-600 cans. Perhaps the Naim is a better match for my 600 cans... Really would want to listen to these two side by side for better comparison, just swap the cans between the units and listen...
Any thoughts and suggestions and input appreciated :-)
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Vallejos
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Roll With the Changes
Posts: 157
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Post by Vallejos on Aug 5, 2014 6:12:32 GMT
Today I'm gonna test listen these two units. Gonna be interesting.
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Vallejos
100+
Roll With the Changes
Posts: 157
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Post by Vallejos on Aug 5, 2014 19:17:46 GMT
Listened for some hours. This is a tough task, deciding what to live with. I like em both but on different music. The Burson gives a slightly wider stereo perspective, a little more space between the instruments. On music like Mark Knopflers album Privateering it is magic. Ben Harpers "Gold to me" sounds crisp, details with punch. Naim is better with for example Led Zeppelin IV which it delivers with better bass, more musicality than the Conductor that sound flat and dry in comparison.
For me about 50 percent of my music sounds better with Naim and 50 percent sounds better with Burson. But in general I would say that Burson with the 9018 DAC PCB with ESS SABRE32 chip sounds more analytic and with a little more refinement than Naim. There is also a Burr Brown PCM1793 DACchip available. With some music the Naim almost sounds lika a mono recording in comparison with the Burson. The soundstage shrinks and the depth narrows as if all musicians took two steps closer.
But in the end I get confused and it is hard to prefer one over the other. It depends on the music preferred.
One thing I experience with the Burson is its stepped attenuator, that if not in daily use, it needs som turnings before listening. Also had an issue with the USB between my Macbook Pro and the Burson. Got lots of distorsion and noice. Impossible to listen to. Finally I came to think about if a driver was necessary and checked Bursons site and found a driver for OSX, and once installed it worked fine with USB from my Mac. Lets see how it will work with my Synology Diskstation NAS... Have sent Burson a mail about that...
So at least one more session is needed to decide a way to go. Naim seems more integrated and more lik a top modern product while Burson with its stepped attenuator, no remote control seems more like good old hifi :-)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2014 21:57:57 GMT
USB Audio, even Asynchronous USB, has problems, even if you may not be aware of them. Many people use expensive higher quality USB cables with better separation between the noisy incoming SMPS derived +5V USB power wires and the D+ and D- data lines. Some better USB cables are even dual conduit types. Many people also use either an internal PCI card to supply cleaner regulated +5V to external USB devices ( e.g. SOtM USB) or external +5V Linear PSUs such as the iFi USB which has better USB isolation. Quite a few members are also using external DIY +5V Linear PSUs as posted as a project in this forum. You need to take these extra measures to get the best from USB audio by reducing the amount of PC generated RF/EMI that goes along for the ride with the binary data
Alex
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Vallejos
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Post by Vallejos on Aug 6, 2014 11:51:33 GMT
USB Audio, even Asynchronous USB, has problems, even if you may not be aware of them. Many people use expensive higher quality USB cables with better separation between the noisy incoming SMPS derived +5V USB power wires and the D+ and D- data lines. Some better USB cables are even dual conduit types. Many people also use either an internal PCI card to supply cleaner regulated +5V to external USB devices ( e.g. SOtM USB) or external +5V Linear PSUs such as the iFi USB which has better USB isolation. Quite a few members are also using external DIY +5V Linear PSUs as posted as a project in this forum. You need to take these extra measures to get the best from USB audio by reducing the amount of PC generated RF/EMI that goes along for the ride with the binary data
Alex Thanks Alex for your much appreciated input! Seems to be more than 1/0 to the digital chain :-) Need the possibility to listen from NAS or Mac via USB to High resolution music files and to my whole ALAC library :-) Just now listening with my X-Can V3, HD600 and CD from my Primare CD21. Synergy is the word that strikes me. Right now Guns n' Roses- Patience, before that; Mark Knopfler-Daddy's gone to Knoxville and Led Zeppelin- Stairway to heaven. Love this rig :-)
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rowuk
Been here a while!
Pain in the ass, ex-patriot yank living in the land of sauerkraut
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Post by rowuk on Aug 6, 2014 17:04:38 GMT
Thinking about cables, I often wonder why the hundred of metres of microphone cable in the studio with extremely low level microphones doesn't completely trash sound - more at least than any metre lengths at home could.
Could it possibly be that the microphones cables are biased by the phantom power and that saves the day? Phantom power would be very easy to implement in a home setting - and a hell of a lot cheaper than expensive interconnects........... Maybe USB interconnects/interfaces have to be rethought.
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Vallejos
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Roll With the Changes
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Post by Vallejos on Aug 6, 2014 18:11:04 GMT
To day I listened to the Wadia 121 dac/pre/phone amp. Wow! What a difference! The music that Burson did not handle very good was absolutely lovely through this baby. Every music I thrower at it came out to my satisfaction :-)
The owner of the hifi store told me Wadia was about to release a new version. But he had no specs nor price. He offered me to order one of the last 121 to a reduced price. The 121 felt so right so I said yes with a smile :-)
I will have it in early next week :-) Can't wait. Now I gotta download some high resolution PCM files just so I can try it. Unfortunatley the Wadia can't handle DSD files so no SACD... But then again it is no big deal for me as my Oppo SACD player does not deliver a DSD signal out. I only have four-five SACD anyway and when I download I can just choose to buy PCM files.
Also I will borrow home a couple of USB cables for listening and se what works best in my system. Maybe this cable thing is a big hen out of a small feather. Will most certainly do the listening with my (non)golden ears :-D
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2014 21:20:20 GMT
Thinking about cables, I often wonder why the hundred of metres of microphone cable in the studio with extremely low level microphones doesn't completely trash sound - more at least than any metre lengths at home could. Could it possibly be that the microphones cables are biased by the phantom power and that saves the day? Phantom power would be very easy to implement in a home setting - and a hell of a lot cheaper than expensive interconnects........... Maybe USB interconnects/interfaces have to be rethought. Hi Robin It would appear that Barry Diament is well pleased with new cables that he is now using in his studio. Just out of bed, but the name Nordost popped into my head there. Barry wrote about this subject in a recent Blog. I will see if I can find a link to it. Regards Alex.
soundkeeperrecordings.wordpress.com/2014/07/
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2014 21:30:14 GMT
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Vallejos
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Post by Vallejos on Aug 7, 2014 9:22:19 GMT
Thanks Alex, I will look inte that. Interesting reading for sure! One question that strikes me is that the Wadia 121 has balanced XLR outputs in the back to connect to a power amp with balanced in (it also has RCA out). My idea is to connect a balanced headphone cable, as those available for the HD600 and HD650 with two balanced connectors? Is that possible without causing any damage to the cans? Reading following in a thread: "The XLR outputs on the back of the Wadia are line out (unpowered) so they will not drive headphones per Drew from moon audio. I should have been smart enough to figure that out but I was hopeful. Oh well--looks like there will be a balanced amp in my future..." So I guess it is not possible then...? :-( But no big deal, the 121 sound great through the headphone output :-) Source: www.head-fi.org/t/698205/wadia-121-balanced-output-question
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