XTRProf
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Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
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Post by XTRProf on Aug 5, 2012 4:11:48 GMT
No war please as this is currently the MOST respectable firm in the computer audio scene. Some of what were so hotly debated that resulted in usually an atomic explosion still apply though in whatever camps you are in. No WW yet?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2012 4:33:07 GMT
No war please as this is currently the MOST respectable firm in the computer audio scene. Some of what were so hotly debated that resulted in usually an atomic explosion still apply though in whatever camps you are in. No WW yet? ZZZZBrought to you by the makers of the Sabre DAC chips that need HUGE amounts of work in the PSU area to extract anywhere near the best from them.
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XTRProf
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Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
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Post by XTRProf on Aug 5, 2012 5:45:52 GMT
I wonder why you are in Australia. You should be Europe where people is concerned about electricity saving. Anway, joke aside, when this is running properly, we wouldn't get any other that can outperform it so far. Serious, I had heard it in various PS configurations. The tube buffer one is still the best to my ears so far.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2012 5:52:42 GMT
Many HiFi nuts in Europe and Asia, especially those in Singapore still like their VERY inefficient valve amplifiers with big transmitting type valves. Many of those would use just as much power heating the big filaments, let alone the dangerous >400V HT supplies than a SS Class A amplifier consuming <100W from a 21-0-21VDC supply ! ;D Balanced + and - Power supplies as used in most recent SS designs, would likely cause much less degradation to the mains supply waveform than a big valve amplifier using only a whopping high voltage +VE supply rail too, just like the CRT TVs did. So which type of amplifier is the most anti-social ? ;D (other than Digital amplifiers. )
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mrarroyo
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Our man in Miami!
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Post by mrarroyo on Aug 5, 2012 11:36:34 GMT
"So which type of amplifier is the most anti-social ?" The ones that do not work!
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pagan
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Post by pagan on Aug 5, 2012 12:48:44 GMT
[/quote] ZZZZBrought to you by the makers of the Sabre DAC chips that need HUGE amounts of work in the PSU area to extract anywhere near the best from them. [/quote] And no other Dac has this problem? Allan
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2012 21:44:22 GMT
Allan My comment was directed at ESS because THEY are the ones beating the drums here about how great they are! ;D Perhaps they need the assistance of some experienced DIYers to point out weaknesses in their typical implementation, and to help them further refine their products ? Alex
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2012 23:23:49 GMT
I'm curious, did you actually get to watch both videos (there is another one after the one Chong linked)? they go on for nearly 1.5hrs but certainly very, very interesting to say the least.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 1:58:20 GMT
I'm curious, did you actually get to watch both videos (there is another one after the one Chong linked)? they go on for nearly 1.5hrs but certainly very, very interesting to say the least. Javier I watched one for quite a while before realising just how much longer it had to go. You only need to have a quick look at the lengthy Twisted Pear threads in DIY Audio to realise how much more needs to be done with the Sabre DACs in the PSU areas, to extract the best from them. Have a look at what Leo's photos reveal about the extent he needed to go to to obtain very high sound quality from them. You shouldn't need to use numerous Salas or Paul Hynes shunt regulators and additional power transformers.with a DAC chip to obtain a huge leap in SQ, not that the Burr Brown chips are that much better in that regard. Alex
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 7:41:42 GMT
Alex, I'm sure that would also apply to Cirrus Logic, AKM, Wolfson, Sharp, Sony, Philips and any other DAC ever made, as Pagan points a few posts above. In fact, wouldn't it apply to any electronic or even electric device? I'd say that just like a car manual doesn't describe how to make yourself the best petrol/diesel and take it for granted that you'll use the best available quality, maybe chip DAC makers just take for granted a PS of good quality will be used with their products, moreso with the top of the range ones. They give an implementation example in their data sheet as a starting point that meets their specs and leave the rest to the creatitivity/enegineering/preferences/beliefs of the manufacturer. If you would have watched the whole video you would have learned that ESS's CEO is an audiophile from the "can hear unmeasurable things" camp. Which I find quite surprising for an engineering firm. Even their CTO, who I believe would know a thing or two about digital after 30 years in the job, says it was audiophiles and their claims who drove them to design the Sabre DAC and develop all the technology it includes improving over plain vanila Sigma Delta chips. I'd recommend, if you find some spare free time, to go through both videos. They are not too difficult to understand and explain many interesting things about digital audio and its problems though, obviously, bragg about how their products are so much better than their competitor's.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2012 8:56:18 GMT
Hi Javier Any time I feel like being bored shitless, I will watch Cricket or perhaps the Aussie Olympians. It was the bragging part that turned me off. It should be blindingly obvious from reading the various threads here and in DIYAudio, that the manufacturers' recommended power supplies don't even come remotely close to extracting the best from their DACs. Allan also is well aware of just how much improvement can be obtained with many different DACs and other gear when a great deal of attention is paid to feeding the beasts. Regards Alex P.S. To put it quite bluntly, we shouldn't need to use exotic or expensive PSU solutions like the Salas, Paul Hynes, or even JLHs to obtain very good results.Neither should we need to use multiple transformers for improved isolation. P.P.S. I forgot to mention John Kenny's LiPo batteries ! ;D
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pagan
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Post by pagan on Aug 6, 2012 9:40:42 GMT
Alex, I'm sure that would also apply to Cirrus Logic, AKM, Wolfson, Sharp, Sony, Philips and any other DAC ever made, as Pagan points a few posts above. In fact, wouldn't it apply to any electronic or even electric device? I'd say that just like a car manual doesn't describe how to make yourself the best petrol/diesel and take it for granted that you'll use the best available quality, maybe chip DAC makers just take for granted a PS of good quality will be used with their products, moreso with the top of the range ones. They give an implementation example in their data sheet as a starting point that meets their specs and leave the rest to the creatitivity/enegineering/preferences/beliefs of the manufacturer. If you would have watched the whole video you would have learned that ESS's CEO is an audiophile from the "can hear unmeasurable things" camp. Which I find quite surprising for an engineering firm. Even their CTO, who I believe would know a thing or two about digital after 30 years in the job, says it was audiophiles and their claims who drove them to design the Sabre DAC and develop all the technology it includes improving over plain vanila Sigma Delta chips. I'd recommend, if you find some spare free time, to go through both videos. They are not too difficult to understand and explain many interesting things about digital audio and its problems though, obviously, bragg about how their products are so much better than their competitor's. It was an interesting video, all of it. From the point of view that they actually listened to them, besides going just by the spec's was something not really expected. I think AKM did listening tests too, maybe, Wolfson??, not sure,, as for the others,,,, well numbers, ESS states in the video that they looked at cleaning up the DC, because it was audible, and they had measurements for it too. What does seem surprising is how clean the DC needs to be, and how it seems to be audible. We'll see if the next gen Dac from ESS has improved it the area. From the designers point of view, it has to reach certain numbers for the EE's to be happy, also, and, with that, it has a manufacturing/implementation cost to be considered. From the DIY point of view, well....
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