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Post by dalethorn on Jun 29, 2012 3:00:27 GMT
The tough decision was: white or black. It might not sound important, but the color choices are kind of polarizing - I'd like to have both, but I'm not rich enough.
Anyway, it took all of 5-10 seconds to nail the signature on this little beastie - very recessed highs and lower midrange emphasis. I always look for a simple EQ fix for something like this, and since this is customized for i-devices (and exclusive to Apple in the U.S.) it made the simple EQ task easy - iPhone/iPod treble booster. On the computer with Foobar the same curve worked well, but there it's possible to also drop the lower mids emphasis a little around 200-250 hz.
On the whole I think it's a good deal for the money - it's comfy, looks good, ultra-portable, and can sound good enough for portable use, if not indoors as well.
The bass is quite good, goes all the way down - 30 hz is strong and not muddy to my ears. Bass strength is not as strong as the M50, but meets the so-called neutral level I think. The only midrange issue is the emphasis around 200-250 hz but that's tolerable to me without correction. The highs are so recessed that with treble boost, whether iphone or Foobar, sibilants and other harshness are no issue at all since that boost doesn't raise the treble to the level of the average hifi 'phone.
The good news I thought is that it sounded better to me on i-devices than the P5 does. That's partly because there isn't any EQ setting on an iphone etc. that can make the P5 sound better, so when treble boost is applied to the P3, the highs are better than the P5, the signature is darker, and the bass is clearly better.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 4:56:20 GMT
There seem to be a few headphones selling at premium prices with this kind of sound sig, Dale. Dr Dre, Bose come to mind and the ones I have - Fanny Wangs. Big bass and not much extension in the treble. They kind of flatter but aren't really up to proper listening.
I thought however that the P3 and P5 might be a higher class of headphone.
I guess kids like that phat sound!! It also warms up the Ipod sound which can be thin.
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Post by dalethorn on Jun 29, 2012 14:11:38 GMT
It sure is peculiar Ian. One of the things I notice with this trend is Apple getting these exclusives. If the exclusive relationship and the sound are more than purely coincidental I'd be worried.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 19:30:27 GMT
I wonder whether that is actually the case, Dale. The brands that come to mind in the UK with Apple stores are: Dr Dre Bose P3/p5 There are some others but I forget their names. However, they're all fat sounding so little kids think that Ipods are great. Barry's site is a good education for some perhaps; where it's possible to hear quality files. However, you don't realise how good the quality is until you hear something poor. I'll never forget first hearing two versions of the same piece. One was heavily compressed and limited while the other was way less with the dynamic content still pretty much intact. The difference was massive. Although the uncompressed file was less 'loud' it went louder on the peaks so drums were absolutely top notch and comparing it to the compressed monstrosity was a real education. It seems to me that the 'phat' headphones are trying to add a depth and therefore make people think they hear a massive dynamic on pop music where in fact, it's an artifact of the headphone so everything is tinged with that fat bass. However, it's interesting that with compressed music, Apple may be trying to add the missing dynamics by superimposing a load of bass so perhaps kids are demanding more impact without realising what's missing. What I love about a good headphone coming from a good amp is the way that it can seem as though it has no bass whatsoever on some passages because it just ain't there on the recording and then suddenly ...... wham ..... it takes off. Some headphones do that superbly while others superimpose it permanently in order to create impact from the start. Apple playing the game is very likely imo. A company sent me these Fanny Wang headphones to review, which are pleasant enough and I quite enjoy the warm up they give to the cool Ipods, but I don't think they're revealing. The funny thing is that I do enjoy them though because they are so rich sounding. Apparently, they're not as rich as the Dr Dre headphones but they are addictive in a way. I know you don't like Bose but the ones I tried were even fatter than the Wangs but really comfortable. Your ears could adjust to their dullness with a little time and they were also 'impressive' but low fi. (Not sure - AE1?) They were closed with soft foam padding and quite portable. Is there anything you've stayed with at all? I've stuck with Beyer DT150 for years but that's because my ears are house trained, not because they are brilliant. They're workhorses. The only one I've kept and stayed with has been the Senn HD600 and 650 I guess. However, they are far from perfect. I tend to use whatever's at hand without me having to move too much!!!
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Post by dalethorn on Jun 29, 2012 20:38:53 GMT
Lessee, the recent Bose OE2i has the most treble rolloff of all, followed by the new Harman/Kardon CL, followed by the B&W P3. The last two fix up pretty well with a treble boost, but there's no fixing the Bose OE2. Even with the same treble boost as the others (i-device treble boost, which is substantial) it sounds dull, dull, dull.
I sent my Beyer DT48A off to Singapore this week, but I know I will never get that model again until I can get better earpads that don't lower the sensitivity in order to boost the bass and treble. I would like to buy the new T90, but I'm already overspent and I need the new Philips M1 more than anything.
I intend to keep the M50 - it's just too good at a good price to let go. The Shure 1840 will stay, because of its uniqueness and I would not want to consider rebuying it at $700 USD. Plus it looks sensational, and the comfort is the best I've ever experienced. The Philips L1 should stick around, because it's a good check against any headphone for bass (with bass reduction EQ). The M50 flat and the Philips L1 EQ'd are comparable in bass response, although the L1 would probably win overall for clarity.
For portability, assuming the new Philips M1 doesn't completely blow away the portables I have, I'll decide between the P3 and the HK-CL. My Sennheiser PX-200ii with 'Rock' EQ has a near perfect signature albeit less overall clarity than the HK and possibly the P3, but they're small and fold away and cost $50, so that's a keeper. Then there's the Bose OE2i. I lay awake at night thinking about those comments that say "Dale, you find all those headphones good, even when they're not good" (quote approximate - i.e. "you have to explain why you're mad when you're not mad", heehee). And I tried really hard with the OE2! Personally, if I were listening at 3AM in dead quiet, I could hear *just* enough highs with treble boost and a good dac/amp to make the OE2 workable. So maybe someone with bat-like hearing could enjoy them more. They are really a darling little fold-up headphone with a small carrycase that can fit into a back pocket, very handy.
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Post by dalethorn on Jul 1, 2012 3:25:39 GMT
I'm still listening to the P3 several days later, playing some FLAC's from Miles Davis' Kind of Blue CD. So given the similarity of the P3 and Bose OE2i I was inspired to write this bit of prose. Perhaps the comparison to the Bose won't inspire anyone to run out and buy either one, but I do find them very useful and the bass response is impressive for such small, light on-ear 'phones.
The new B&W P3 is about the same size, price, and earpiece/earpad configuration as the Bose OE2i, and given that they're both sold by Apple for use with the ipod/iphone etc., it seems like a very apt comparison to make. Both have a substantial treble rolloff and benefit from the i-device treble booster EQ setting. When the EQ is applied, both have good deep bass response, and both have a fairly smooth response from the bass on up. Neither has the level of treble of a typical audiophile headphone when treble booster EQ is applied, and neither has any sibilant or other high frequency irritation issues with this EQ setting. The difference that really stands out for me is the P3 has an emphasis around 200-250 hz that gives it a warmer or darker sound (but not bass-warm), and the OE2i has a lighter sound as if there were a minor emphasis more than an octave higher than the P3. I can't say that either of these headphones has a major emphasis in the midrange or elsewhere, but my impression is that neither is as refined or smooth sounding as most of the more expensive audiophile headphones.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2012 7:31:40 GMT
Funny you say that, Dale. I felt that was a bit harsh when I read it and I thought about it as well!! The thing is, so much (even cheap) gear is pretty good nowadays and you need to be as honest as you can be. I try hard to be as honest as I can. I'm also aware (like you) that your opinions can swing with extended time. I'm well aware of that myself - for instance, I am beginning to understand some people not liking the treble of the K550. I don't find it a problem myself, but after going through piles of headphones and then returning to the K550, it does have a strong top too. Now, I'm used to things like that and my ears simply adjust but perhaps others don't. Frans mentioned that to me recently and I think your ears also adjust pretty quickly. You (and I) tend to overlook the tonal stuff and go for the detail once the ears have acclimatised. You add the eq thing as well but I listen totally naked!! I mean ..... as is. Basically because I know that most people won't use eq with their headphones. The M50 is a good standard headphone to use as a reference imo. I'm still curious about the white ones. The M50 is comfortable for loud listening and it's built like a ton of bricks. One thing I don't get with the M50 is how the Audio Technica 'house sound' has gone. Most of them tend to be quite light sounding. (like the ad700 that you have) I would guess that the DT48 is more a pro tool-like headphone like the Sony V6 series. Very crystal and not necessarily the best thing for music listening; although again, I don't mind that. The one I had a problem with long term was the K701. Short term fine, but in the end, it kind of grated. I'm looking forward to seeing what you make of that one. I'm surprised you didn't want to keep the DT1350, Dale. It's a strange headphone in that it can seem kind of middle of the road and then suddenly on a good recording it takes off. Funnily enough, the comfort issue doesn't seem to be so bad for me and it has a bit more depth than the PX200. I have that as well. It seems pretty lightweight in comparison to the DT1350. Funnily enough, I like the Bose headphone as well and I dared to say so on Headfi. It caused people to start being quite rude to me a few years ago so I rarely go on there any longer. Not a perfect headphone in sound, but pleasant and comfortable. I tried changing the pads but couldn't get them to work well really, but I did like them as well with all their colourations. An amazing bass response too. For portable, I use ie8's with custom fit earpieces because the Senn earpieces don't seal easily. Once sealed, the ie8 sounds like a full sized headphone. However, they are also rolled off up top so they can be played pretty loud with no pain!!
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Post by dalethorn on Jul 1, 2012 11:06:34 GMT
I dream about a more perfect 1350, much as I pine for my old girlfriend/princess in Encino. You know, Valley Girls and all that? Robert Palmer was so right - may he rest in peace.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2012 11:31:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2012 10:42:09 GMT
I dream about a more perfect 1350, much as I pine for my old girlfriend/princess in Encino. You know, Valley Girls and all that? Robert Palmer was so right - may he rest in peace. Valley girls and Robert Palmer? On the DT48? I'm impressed. I expect to receive a DT1350 soon and sure gonna play Ship Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowning Wich on that and the DT48, track treble emphasis and all.
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Post by dalethorn on Jul 6, 2012 12:38:18 GMT
Given how long ago the Encino tour, yep, the DT48 was the only headphone I had then.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2012 13:05:16 GMT
DT1350... Since you have a Sansa custom EQ settings: band1: +2 (+3 ?) band2: -1 (-2 ?) band 3,4 = 0 band 5: 0 (+1?) (sorry for thread jacking )
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crashhot
<100
can I have one of those please...?
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Post by crashhot on Jul 11, 2012 16:35:37 GMT
that answers the question about the P3 I asked a while ago, thanks
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Post by dalethorn on Jul 11, 2012 21:05:09 GMT
Since buying the P3 three weeks ago I've been using them exclusively, and happily. I did an occasional compare to the Harman/Kardon CL, which also sounds good and somewhat lighter, but doesn't EQ as well on the Apple portables. I did one quick compare to the AT M50, which was like comparing a Honda Civic to a full-sized Merc. Still, the P3 sounds very good as a portable, and sounds especially good with a good desktop DAC/headphone amp. I can't think of anything I'd prefer as a portable now, but I'm waiting for the Philips M1 which looks promising.
I've downloaded quite a few 96 khz tracks now from Downloadsnow dot net, from Hdtracks dot com, and even a couple samples from Lessloss dot com. No disappointments with any of those. The P3 sounds good, resolves the details, has decent bass - no problems. I think some critics (if they were being honest) would say the lower midrange is colored, rather than merely having a modest emphasis. The M50 clobbers it, yet -- it still sounds great.
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