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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 17:19:46 GMT
I went down to old memory lane today and listened to the wonderful Deep Purple playing in the Albert Hall in 1969 - their 'Concerto for Pop Group and Orchestra'.
I have always found this to be a strange piece and I've partially found out why today after all these years.
The D2000 just helps the recording integrate SO much more. I always felt that the sound of the orchestra and group were kind of disconnected and they never seemed to gel.
However, the D2000 kicks life into the recording big time to say the least. It has more depth. Lots more 'air' and space and you really do feel as though you're at the concert with the band communicating much more closely with the orchestra than I have ever thought. In fact, you can hear that there is a massive effort on both sides to get the two (kind of opposite) sounds to mix.
Oh the joys of of modern headphones!!!!!!
The emotion contained in this recording is staggering and it never really communicated like this with me ever before. It really smacks you in the face when the band enter after the long orchestral intro and for some reason, they just don't sound as separate as I remember.
Deep Purple performed this again in 1999. Does anyone know of a recording of this? I think it was recorded to DVD but not sure about CD.
I'd like to hear a retrospective performance of this but I'm not sure it's available.
I really wish they'd do a definitive studio version of this.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 18:04:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 19:33:28 GMT
Hi Chris,
Would you believe - Itunes!!! I know it's a crappy download but I wanted to hear differences. Drum cadenza got curtailed (Thank goodness) It's quite slick and well integrated.
The weight of Purple is really nice and they balance well with the orchestra. Actually on headphones, the band have some really lovely moments and the switching between them and the orchestra doesn't feel so stark. It's a bit more integrated.
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Post by dalethorn on Jun 28, 2012 20:02:30 GMT
That should be a heads-up for the music industry. Low-cost mixing boards for everyone. And don't say "app", please.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 20:04:22 GMT
Actually, I'm having a Purple evening with red wine!! I'm now on Purpendicular.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 20:38:36 GMT
That was me a few days ago! If you like Purpendicular also try Accidentally On Purpose, an album by just Gillan & Glover which I personally prefer. iTunes link It's where "Via Miami" comes from (as heard on 1999 Concerto)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 21:03:17 GMT
Thanks Chris. I'll give it a go!
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XTRProf
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Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
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Post by XTRProf on Jun 29, 2012 2:29:09 GMT
I have, I have! I think the unplayed DVD. Yup, unplayed and still seal if I'm not wrong. Wait till you hear if thru a system such as Barry and not HP, man!
But I don't like the Metallica with SO CD. The orchestra seemed to be always playing a catch up game with the band all the time. I sold it in less than a day many moons ago. OMG, there were still people appreciating that album. I hope I don't do the same for this Deep Purple dvd on seeing and listening.
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XTRProf
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Pssst ! Got any spare capacitors ?
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Post by XTRProf on Jun 29, 2012 2:40:05 GMT
This one, right? Yes, indeed I have on searching ............... Still sealed and not watched yet, damn it!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 4:49:45 GMT
Yes, that's the one, Chong.
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Post by dalethorn on Jun 29, 2012 14:16:07 GMT
I remember many, many years ago an Audio magazine review of one of the orchestrated Moody Blues records, which the review summarized as "Mantovani with teeth." Hopefully Deep Purple fared better.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 15:16:38 GMT
Yes, I've always felt doubtful about a rock band with an orchestra, Dale. The two don't seem to mix too well and all too often, the pieces are over romanticised crap. Imo, the Purple piece borders on that but it does contain some rather nice passages.
However, when I first heard it, I had problems hearing the two sit together comfortably. In the 1969 version for instance, the band seem to come in like a ton of bricks after the long orchestral intro. I didn't like it.
On the D2000 it seems to gel better but I think the 1999 recording gels even better. It's not quite the same shock and the balance/mixing is nicer.
In fact, I found it a more satisfying piece of music with some real highs in it emotionally.
I think playing it in retrospect has got it to mature in their minds and it's played with more knowledge.
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Post by dalethorn on Jun 29, 2012 16:15:41 GMT
So Ian, what do you think of my idea - start the kiddies out in kindergarten, each gets their own mixing board and instructions not to mix too loud or otherwise muck up the music? And just as important - NO DUETS please. You know, the kind where you're dead and looking down (or up as the case may be) at us the living folks, and you hear *yourself* singing with Lady Gaga or some such wench that you never met.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 17:27:51 GMT
;D I think some of them are already working in studios. It's a fact isn't it? ........ a) Ugly people work on TV. b) People with speech impediments work on radio. c) People who can't sing become pop stars. d) Children work in studios? Deaf people mix. ......... whatever you shouldn't be doing, just do it to see if you can!! You know, kids can't be told a great deal. They insist that the white eardbuds are good enough. Music isn't loud enough from Ipods. Good music has a phat bass. If you get youngsters to listen to different mixes of the same thing. they choose the bassiest mix every time. Hence the Apple strategy of selling these bassy monstrosities. Someone on here thought I was a bass head a couple of weeks ago when I got the K550. Nothing like what some kids think is right I can tell you!! For me, I try to kind of recreate the sound I hear live in a headphone and I do feel the need for a lift down in the bass, but not for that godawful phat sound. It has to be a good 'type' of bass for me before I can accept it as a good bass. I think kids judge the amount of bass and not the quality. However, I also feel that many hi fi types shy away from bass as well. I'm not sure why. I don't mind a huge bass as long as it's fast and fades away to allow other things through but prefer a more moderate whack with a deep slam. However, some of the recommendations from hi fi types has me wondering why they don't miss the bass in some headphones. Apple are squarely aiming at kids I guess. I see so many with Dre headphones on their heads - a fashion statement as well as a big bass so that they feel it's quality. What a con. I was under the impression that the P3 and P5 might offer the big bass but also a little bit more finesse.
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Post by dalethorn on Jun 29, 2012 18:52:35 GMT
P3 bass is better than P5. Small consolation there. I was at the local park last week and a radio station van was there to support the day's music fest, so I approached the lady guarding the van and asked "Where are the big woofers hiding in your van?" And she looked embarrassed and sheepishly said "Um, we don't have any big woofers." But alas, they were a 'country' music station whatever that is, and I suppose 'country' will catch up eventually.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 19:17:29 GMT
Aaaaah ...... they use a rubber band for the bass. It's surprising how much bass you can develop outside with all that space. The worst place to be is in front of the speakers. It needs to be verfy loud in order to generate enough volume to produce that bass outside but boy, when you stand in front of speakers, you don't hear it. You feel it in your guts. I can hear that bass with earpieces fitted and turned off - through my skin. However, whether you can hear anyone else is another matter. It's so nice to have a fitted earpiece that's receiving everyone clearly so that you can turn it all down and protect your ears. In the bad old days, you'd be standing in front of a set of speakers that squirted out so much power, it could make me feel sick with the vibrations and doing vocals was a joke - you could barely hear yourself above the noise!! It must have sounded awful. Nowadays, things are so much more precise with a little spectacled man out front, monitoring and balancing for you while all you do is just keep playing. It's always a pleasant surprise to hear the band from the outside later 'cos it just doesn't sound like how I remember it!!!! Some guys can really pull clarity out of mud like sound if they're out there monitoring and adjusting what's going on. I must admit, after using the Horizon all this while, I have become a bit of a power freak. I really like the power the amp has and how it's just ticking over - even with a K701. It kind of makes me feel that so many amps are just under-powered.
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Post by dalethorn on Jun 29, 2012 20:52:19 GMT
Well, if I had the wherewithal, I would get some Klipschorns or maybe a set of those Cerwin-Vegas they used in the Earthquake movie, knock out a wall so's to get a longer room, reinforce the walls, EQ the bass flat to 5 hz if possible, then terrorize the neighbors with the opening to Also Sprach Zarathustra by the Pasadena Symphony on that audiophile gold CD. I've had just a taste of that drama with the HQD speakers - nothing like it. Not even my first roller coaster ride. The key is to really pump up the energy around 5 hz and below, since that's what undermines people's sense of a stable earth under their feet.
But when I played bass guitar I didn't do any of that nonsense. I just played to support the leads, and tried to make my notes as crispy as possible.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 22:17:43 GMT
I downloaded an MP3 of the DP/LSO as well. I've had a couple of listens and some of it works quite well, most especially the "movements". Some others were a bit poor and some ohhhhhkayyyy.
When it's good it's better than the '69 effort.
Ian,
If you get the Accidentally On Purpose album, don't bother about any bonus tracks, really not woth having them.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 22:25:51 GMT
I love that Strauss piece. Everyone knows the opening but not what happens next. What a piece of drama. In that big C major chord at the beginning, the orchestra is directed to do a decrescendo and then a crescendo so that the organ chord pushes through the gap that the orchestra leaves. Such a great piece of scoring. Actually, I really do like Mahler's symphonies a great deal. I have a hilarious recording of Bernstein doing the first. He was as eccentric as ever and really played up the 'Jewish' aspect in the melodies. (The bit where it sounds like, 'There was a soldier, a Scottish soldier' and the minor version of Frere Jacque. A great time in the late Romantic era. I remember the Cerwin Vegas. When they came out, they became very popular in USA but not so much in UK. Probably because UK rooms tend to be smaller.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2012 8:14:03 GMT
I downloaded an MP3 of the DP/LSO as well. I've had a couple of listens and some of it works quite well, most especially the "movements". Some others were a bit poor and some ohhhhhkayyyy. When it's good it's better than the '69 effort. Ian, If you get the Accidentally On Purpose album, don't bother about any bonus tracks, really not woth having them. Thanks Chris. If I'm honest, Deep Purple are a bit hit and miss with me. Also, some of their stuff isn't too well recorded imo. I was listening to the Live in Japan CD and after 'Sweet Child in Time' my mind started to wander!! Mind you, I have the attention span of a gnat. Here's a shocking trade secret ...... Deep Purple sound great on the Fanny Wangs. There, I've said it. The added weight really enhances their recordings. I'll try 'Accidentally'. EDIT: Got it! Not what I was expecting. Deep Purple sound has gone from the two of them. Is it back to roots here - good old fashioned rock 'n roll? 'Via Miami' almost has a 50's sound about it. Also the lack of upfront and in yer face guitar with the use of synths through the whole album. Oh ... hold on, Purple have returned .... 'I Can't Dance to That' A lot of old rockers go back don't they ... I'm thinking of the Led Zeppelin's singer who did that country type vocal album with someone else. I quite like this album, Chris. It's nicely thought out with a nice variation of stuff on it and it's recorded so damned well. I do miss Jon Lord though. Maybe I'm geared towards keyboards, but he is a great player. You know, he wrote excellent articles on rock keyboard techniques in the 70's and 80's which are marvellous. He wrote pieces for keyboard, in notation which were fantastic pieces to improve specifically 'rock playing' technique. Clever man hiding there in Deep Purple!! Another one I miss is Keith Emerson. Having looked at some of his stuff really closely, you realise what a virtuoso he really was. Also, with him and Jon, their 'articulation' was unbelievable. Jon on the organ and Keith on Moogs. They really thought about how they performed the notes and you find them using all kinds of staccato notes alongside swells and diminuendos which other players don't even think about. Basically, they really play precisely, down to the length of each note and use the volume up and down to allow space for other instruments or cut through like a knife themselves. I really noticed that with Keith a long time ago when I saw him performing Pictures live. His attention to detail on stage was staggering and his technique was legendary. (Jon too, although I like Jon's composition techniques moreso) Do you like Ozzy's stuff? I must admit, although he is completely stark raving mad (But an extremely nice guy), I am fond of his albums. There is an emotional content in his stuff that always comes through so strongly. Some beautiful ballads and almost 'John Lennon' type songs alongside that hard man 'Prince of Darkness' stuff. Unfortunately, Jack has just found out he has MS. Poor Ozzy - had a rough life as well as the ups. I wonder whether the effect of Jack will have a devastating effect on him since he is basically such a strong family fella under all that 'blackness'. I wouldn't be surprised if a real Ozzy appears on record soon, but I do like his music quite a lot as well. The reason I mention him is that some of these songs on Gillan Glover album would really suit him too.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2012 11:20:31 GMT
That goes for me too, things are pretty safe up to "Who do we think we are?" but go a bit shabby on the later albums IMHO, with just a few memorable tracks. When they reformed things started off well again and have been up and down since. If I had to pick favourites, based on being consistantly enjoyable throughout, "Deep Purple(III)", "In Rock" and "Perfect Strangers" do it for me, some others coming in a very close second. DP also have my personal favourite drummer in the form of Ian Paice. It's not until you try to emulate his playing that you realise how slick and talented he is
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