oldson
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Post by oldson on Jun 27, 2012 20:07:34 GMT
just got a new pc and have overlooked the fact that i no longer have a digital coax output. should i go for an m2tech hiface usb adaptor or fit a pci sound card? i do now have usb 3.0 ports if that makes any difference! thanks
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 21:04:03 GMT
Asus Xonar Essence ST PCI card gets my vote, speaking from experience of that and one of the early HiFaces - way better in my system. Dave.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 22:06:34 GMT
just got a new pc and have overlooked the fact that i no longer have a digital coax output. should i go for an m2tech hiface usb adaptor or fit a pci sound card? i do now have usb 3.0 ports if that makes any difference! thanks I would go for an Asus Xonar Essence as DaveK suggests, although a JK HiFace with the Lithium batteries would also do a good job. Much comes down to how well USB is implemented in your PC and the quality of it's SMPS power. The Asus Xonar D2X, Essence etc. have an additional small 4 pin molex power supply connector for critical areas of the card, that then receives a little more filtering over what on board coax SPDIF would. Alex
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2012 22:24:17 GMT
My understanding was that the HiFace was primarily intended for use with laptops where the soundcard has no SP/dif out and release you from using a dedicated USBdac, just plug into any DAC you want. Later modifications by John Kenny making it a far more serious device. For a desktop the card must make far better sense than a standard HiFace. I was still thinking of getting a HiFaceTwo for my laptop though
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jun 27, 2012 22:30:08 GMT
The ASUS Xonar soundcards rock! I can really recommend them. I have two Xonar Essence STX cards and I'm very happy with them. Sound quality is great and they work also with Linux (great open-source drivers available). ASUS sells also USB audio interfaces in the Xonar series. If you need the flexibility of USB (for using the audio interface with more than computer for example), then they could be worth a look. IIRC, we have already a good review of a Xonar USB interface on RG.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Jun 28, 2012 11:05:21 GMT
Actually, if you already have a DAC, just get the USB to SPDIF interface will be better than what the soundcard DAC can provide.
Btw guys, any 384-24 USB to SPDIF or i2s ready yet?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2012 11:25:07 GMT
ASUS sells also USB audio interfaces in the Xonar series. If you need the flexibility of USB (for using the audio interface with more than computer for example), then they could be worth a look. IIRC, we have already a good review of a Xonar USB interface on RG. Hi Christian, Could you provide a link to this USB audio interface please to ensure I consider the right item.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jun 28, 2012 11:47:56 GMT
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Post by freddypipsqueek on Jun 29, 2012 7:57:07 GMT
I agree with getting a USB to SPDIF converter as opposed to a standalone card. I have tried an EMU0404 and ESI Juli@ and whilst the latter got close a stand alone USB converter has been better and more flexible. I have not tried one of JKs Hifaces but the reviews suggest this would be very capable and a good match all but the best DACs. I have also found that a separate installation of WinXP paired down to minimal drivers etc (as per Cplay) does make a big difference - in my case enough for me to buy a s/h Ibm laptop (with SSD) for music only playback.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 8:16:40 GMT
USB 3.0 provides no advantage over 2.0 audiowise with maybe the exception of higher current capabality. 2.0 is perfectly adecuate for all possible bit depth/sample rate/multichanel combinations. Using a high end PCI or PCIe sound card (Xonar ST, STX, etc.) as a SPDIF source is a little on the overkill side, specially since the extra power connectors they include are only used for powering the analogue line and HP outputs as Dave can testify, their coaxial output works exactly the same when the extra power connector is removed. A much cheaper card will work just as well, having the same basic power filtering, and would still give you access to ASIO drivers on top of WASAPI mode while saving on a costly analogue section you won't be using. I'd recommend using the low latency install mode of Unixonar drivers should you opt for a Xonar. If you prefer the USB route, which is indeed more flexible, you can find a list of some of the available devices here: www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/USB_SPDIF.htm
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 8:31:25 GMT
Hi Javier. IIRC, DaveK reported that coax SPDIF also worked better after the molex PSU went via a JLH.Either he was mistaken (or I am about him saying that ) but sometimes there is interaction between sections that can't be readily explained, just like the question I asked you recently re W7 Ready Boost. Incidentally, I now have a new dual external +5V supply ready to test tomorrow for that weird problem. Regards Alex
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 8:37:24 GMT
Alex, if there is interaction between the two sections, rather than filtering wouldn't it make more sense to leave unpowered the one you are not using (ie removing the Molex)? IMHO no power will be better than any filtered power however good it could be. Disconnecting the extra power efectively turns the analogue section off so you are left only with the one you are actually using and no potential "polution" will make it through. You will have paid dearly for something unused but that is about it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 8:57:56 GMT
Alex, if there is interaction between the two sections, rather than filtering wouldn't it make more sense to leave unpowered the one you are not using (ie removing the Molex)? IMHO no power will be better than any filtered power however good it could be. Disconnecting the extra power efectively turns the analogue section off so you are left only with the one you are actually using and no potential "polution" will make it through. You will have paid dearly for something unused but that is about it. Javier Sometimes it is handy to have both options, especially if you want to try loopbacks for measurements or recording. Regards Alex
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Jun 29, 2012 9:28:22 GMT
Hi Javier,
A nice link you have given there! Btw, is there any that can do 384-24/32 yet?
It seems the Musiland Monitor 01 USD $73.95 at 192-24 is the best value for money now. Any body have tried that yet and how it sounded?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 9:42:09 GMT
Alex, unless you are recording and/or measuring very often it would still make sense to leave the Molex off and only connect it when needed or even making an external on/off switch to make it more convenient and easy to use.
Chong, there are no SPDIF chips capable of more than 24/192, that is the limit of the specification. If you want higher than that or even native DSD you will have to get a true USB DAC, so far is the only way.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 9:54:17 GMT
Javier and Alex, As you both know, I am a candidate for having the world's worst memory and it is a real pain with my set up to repeat the experiment but my recollection is that, when the extra (molex) power supply was left off the Xonar ST card the analogue output was disabled but the coax opti/digi output worked OK, as stated above. However my recollection is that the co-ax opti/digi output sounded better to my ears with the molex supply connected. I understand that this is not possible but I thought it really did . Dave.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 10:51:19 GMT
Javier and Alex, As you both know, I am a candidate for having the world's worst memory and it is a real pain with my set up to repeat the experiment but my recollection is that, when the extra (molex) power supply was left off the Xonar ST card the analogue output was disabled but the coax opti/digi output worked OK, as stated above. However my recollection is that the co-ax opti/digi output sounded better to my ears with the molex supply connected. I understand that this is not possible but I thought it really did . Dave. DaveK and Javier It is quite possible that the additional 4 pin molex supply may be providing a better and quieter, low resistance earth reference from the PSU than via the PCI-E slot. Alex
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Post by freddypipsqueek on Jun 29, 2012 20:51:07 GMT
Dave.
I recall each PCI-E slot has limited power so if the molex was connected more current would be available to the digital section. Rememeber the days of video cards without separate power connectors !!.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2012 21:51:04 GMT
I have zero background or experience on which to start pontificating (I like that word ) about what I hear and my 72 year old ears are well below par so I try not to stick my neck out too far - there are a few (though not many on this forum, thankfully ) only too ready to give let me have it from both barrels if I say something that their science says is impossible. So I'm happy that the more open minded can suggest a bit of science that might support my 'impossible' findings . I am convinced that I realy do hear some improvement but my science/engineering background has brain-washed me into believing that science can prove or disprove anything so I admit to being a bit perplexed at the moment . All good fun though, innit? ;D . Dave.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2012 8:15:31 GMT
The analogue section of the ST/STX/D2X works at 12V it gets from the molex connector whereas the digital works at 3.3 & 5V from the PCI/PCIe slot, is not like the extra power connector in the graphics cards. The extra voltage and current are needed mainly for the HP amp, moreso in the powerful ST and STX case, but also the opamps in the I/V and buffer/LPF benefit from working at higher voltages. Though, horses for courses. Even if not "scientific" and unexplainable, if better SQ is achieved by tweaking unused sections of the card it makes sense to do so.
Cheers
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Jul 1, 2012 17:40:23 GMT
decided on the hiface 2. just ordered one from Meier Audio. great price too.
thanks for all the comments
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oldson
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Post by oldson on Jul 30, 2012 20:06:30 GMT
generally pleased with my choice of the hiface2. but annoyingly i do often have to un-plug and re-plug it in, for it to work .
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