XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Jul 14, 2012 4:49:20 GMT
BTW: Shall we start a FreeNAS thread? It could be a good option for those who have an old PC around. www.freenas.org/Sometimes, a lightweight Linux will be the better option though. But you have to do more by yourself. Yes, do. But I don't have an old PC. My old Pentium 3 PC kaput. I can reuse the shell though after some upgrade respraying and up the ante for the the PSU. Now only 250W. Anyway, most highend NASs use Linux with ext 2 or 3 extension. It will be good that I can build one that's more powerful than the Synology in the CPU department. Btw, how many bays can this Linux NAS project goes to? 12 bays RAID 5 and 6? Aim to be that for the next SOTA NAS when earning again.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jul 14, 2012 5:21:11 GMT
It's probably only limited by the used hardware. Of course, this hardware must be also supported by the respective OS.
If you really want a NAS and not a real server, it's often better to go for something like Synology or QNAP since you'll spend less in the end and have less trouble.
FreeNAS is a good idea though when you have plans to reuse old hardware and/or if you wish to go the really free and open way. Synology uses also Linux, you could even get the source code from them, but it's too specific for their hardware.
I wouldn't recommend to go for FreeNAS if you have to buy the hardware first. You'll go better with a pre-built solution if you have to buy something new. This with the exception of some special demands: If you have special software you want to run on your NAS, a really open solution could be the better option.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Jul 14, 2012 5:25:33 GMT
Ok, noted. Btw, what's the difference between a server and a NAS. Noob question in the area of NAS. Maybe I'm getting mixed up as NAS also have some server softwares for it.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jul 14, 2012 5:56:08 GMT
Ok, noted. Btw, what's the difference between a server and a NAS. Noob question in the area of NAS. Maybe I'm getting mixed up as NAS also have some server softwares for it. Well, the boundaries are overlapping. Most servers are also running without a dedicated monitor and often administrated with a remote and/or web interface. I'd say a NAS is most often quite small, uses mostly embedded or low-power CPU's and comes already with almost every supported software. A "real" server is most often one with a lot more processing power and runs a fully fledged operating system (often also with a full GUI available when you access the server directly with an attached monitor) which allows the use of a very broad bandwidth of software. But really, the boundaries do overlap. Even a old PC with FreeNAS can be described as NAS, even if it is far from being small and energy efficient.
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pagan
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Post by pagan on Jul 14, 2012 6:22:39 GMT
I would advise to look into the FreeNAS software first before buying hardware as some hardware is better supported than others in Linux. doc.freenas.org/index.php/Hardware_Recommendationsexample "Network Interfaces The FreeBSD Ethernet section of the Hardware Notes indicates which interfaces are supported by each driver. While many interfaces are supported, FreeNAS™ users have seen the best performance from Intel and Chelsio interfaces, so consider these brands if you are purchasing a new interface. At a minimum you will want to use a GigE interface. While GigE interfaces and switches are affordable for home use, it should be noted that modern disks can easily saturate 110 MB/s. If you require a higher network throughput, you can "bond" multiple GigE cards together using the LACP type of Link Aggregation. However, any switches will need to support LACP which means you will need a more expensive managed switch rather than a home user grade switch. If network performance is a requirement and you have some money to spend, use 10 GigE interfaces and a managed switch. If you are purchasing a managed switch, consider one that supports LACP and jumbo frames as both can be used to increase network throughput. NOTE: at this time the following are not supported: InfiniBand, FibreChannel over Ethernet, or wireless interfaces. If network speed is a requirement, consider both your hardware and the type of shares that you create. On the same hardware, CIFS will be slower than FTP or NFS as Samba is single-threaded. If you will be using CIFS, use a fast CPU. "
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Jul 14, 2012 12:26:58 GMT
If based on just the NIC and switch, most modern NIC and switch will be able to meet the requirement as detail there. Only thing is there is a lot to read, debug and optimise to get this working at full steam. 10Gbs NIC and switch, crazy? Now? Might as well wait for price to fall first and that will be roughly 1 to 2 years from now.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jul 14, 2012 13:41:19 GMT
If based on just the NIC and switch, most modern NIC and switch will be able to meet the requirement as detail there. Only thing is there is a lot to read, debug and optimise to get this working at full steam. 10Gbs NIC and switch, crazy? Now? Might as well wait for price to fall first and that will be roughly 1 to 2 years from now. I guess, you will be already quite satisfied with the Buffalo NAS and the network hardware you have. It's certainly enough for most tasks. BTW: No need to go for 10Gbit Ethernet. This stuff will remain costly since it is not intended for consumers. It's also limited in cable length, at least for copper wires. And fibre isn't really an option at home if you look at the cost. The note from pagan about FreeNAS (BSD-UNIX) and Linux is true. Always check the hardware you want to use before you go for a specific OS. Like mentioned before, I wouldn't recommend "normal" users to go for a custom NAS solution (I mean a home built soluton), since the commercially available NAS' will do the job usually better with lower costs in the end. If you want to reuse old hardware or if you have special (software) demands, a custom solution will (perhaps) be an option.
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pagan
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Post by pagan on Jul 14, 2012 14:20:16 GMT
If based on just the NIC and switch, most modern NIC and switch will be able to meet the requirement as detail there. Only thing is there is a lot to read, debug and optimise to get this working at full steam. 10Gbs NIC and switch, crazy? Now? Might as well wait for price to fall first and that will be roughly 1 to 2 years from now. It is not just the NIC card....... chipset's......., any cards you plug in......, etc There are a lot of generic drivers but you really need to do you homework.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Jul 14, 2012 22:45:40 GMT
No worries, I wouldn't be building one now as first, I don't have an old working computer. Second, there is much homework to be done wrt hardware compatability, after Pagan highlighted it, and some compatable hardwares may not be available in Singapore and have to be imported. Third, I already have a Buffalo to be satisfied with for the moment. Most important, I don't have the cash to do another NAS and be OCD crazy over it.
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Post by elysion on Jul 15, 2012 17:41:24 GMT
Those computers shouldn't have problems to decode HD video streams. Most likely an easy task for them. I don't know what case type the Vostro is using, but I'm almost sure you could replace the graphics card if you'd need more power. The notebook is also an almost current model, which is, of course, a good thing.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Jul 16, 2012 10:34:40 GMT
Thanks for the heads up. Btw, last week I updated the Nvidia GT220 and it now seems to be able to do 3D. I don't have a 3D TV attacehd to that i7 PC though but only a 2D Samsiung 32". I must investigate this more.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Jul 17, 2012 4:15:23 GMT
Actually which server is better in the NAS? Windows Server or the Linux based server in some NASs? Thanks.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jul 17, 2012 7:49:19 GMT
Actually which server is better in the NAS? Windows Server or the Linux based server in some NASs? Thanks. For a NAS, the answer is (IMO) very simple: Linux. Simply because Linux uses a lot less resources that any Windows variant does. It's also better for the overall cost since the manufacturer doesn't have to pay license fees to M$. In fact, Linux was a major factor behind the developement of the first NAS systems. At least at the beginning of the success of NAS systems, Linux was almost the only OS that was available for those tasks. There was no Windows variant out then, which has been designed for this purpose. If you have a look at the best NAS systems available (IMO, these are mainly from Synology, QNAP and a few other manufactuers), there is no one that uses Windows. LaCie for example has used Windows XP Embedded combined with Group Logics Etreme-Z IP filesharing software. Extreme-Z IP was the part that made the AFP 3.1+ protocol available on these systems. Without Extreme-Z IP, these systems wouldn't be able to offer support for Apple AFP file sharing. Almost every Linux based NAS offers native AFP 3.1+ file sharing support since the components needed are also freely available under the GPL. If you'd have asked the same questions for "normal" servers, the answer would be more sophisticated. IMVHO, Linux is really the better OS for server tasks, you see that also if you look what the really big servers are running today: All use Linux or at least a different UNIX flavour. Windows Server is only available for servers with a quite limited size. And you PAY depending on the size (speak: CPU cores) of your server! But there is also an argument for Windows Server. A lot of specialised corporate software only runs on Windows Server. M$ does also everything they can to make their solutions as incompatible as possible to open standards. They are only open in areas where they can't go the "closed" way for some reason (for example if their customers won't buy their crap without interoperability for open files formats/standards or because the open way IS already the standard and no one would use the crap from M$). It's VERY ironic that many Windows Server licenses don't run on real hardware today. In fact, these licenses are running in a virtual machine environment like VMware ESX. And what's VMware ESX: It's a customised RedHat Linux which runs the VMware ESX virtualisation software. Think of it like Windows Server is running in a virtual machine on top of a much more stable enterprise Linux environment. In short: The main argument for a Windows Server license is ONLY being compatible to proprietary standards from M$. There's almost no other real reason.
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pagan
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Post by pagan on Jul 17, 2012 13:02:32 GMT
Another reason The highly educated and qualified experts administrators that can turn to M$ to fix there stuff-ups. And of course,,, at a price
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Jul 17, 2012 15:42:18 GMT
So Linux is the overall server winner in most respects unless you need M$ help for problem solutions. Heh, heh, heh ............... Well, I don't need as It's just a low traffic home network meant mostly for AV and some gaming.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jul 17, 2012 19:51:43 GMT
I've often wondered why some simple things don't work with brand new computers. I've even had a case with a Brother Printer/Fax when we had a problem that was not documented in the manual. There was a (costly) hotline though. The person on the hotline knew instantly what we were asking for. I guess that's their trick to generate a few extra quids from a hotline call with every new printer/fax they sell.
Apple isn't better in that regard. While they had very serviceable models years ago, their newer models can't be easily maintained by yourself. It's a pain to open the cases and they use almost only special parts. Most people will decide to bring their Macs to an Apple store for maintenance or replacement of parts when something is damaged.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Jul 17, 2012 22:28:30 GMT
Talking of Apple, in the Mac Mini, which parts can be changed by us and which surely only by Apple? Need to have some ideas as I also wanted to try a Mac Mini for AV and gaming system latter.
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jul 18, 2012 1:29:15 GMT
Your are on the lucky side, Chong. The Mac Mini is one of the very few Apple computers which is rather easy for service. I didn't have a look at the newest models, but I have one of the first unibody MacMini (still with a Core 2 Duo) around. Changing memory is very easy. Just turn the bottom plate and remove it. Then you have already access to the memory. Harddrive/SSD is more complicated, but should be possible with a bit patience and a guide from the internet. The older Mac Minis (I've had a lot of them), had plastic snap-in cases. With the right tools, it's no real problem to open the cases. The rest needs a bit patience. Still, the MacMinis aren't comparable to my PCs, which are much better regarding service/maintenance. But don't remind me of the procedure I have to do with my flagship PC when I want to change something that requires me to remove the whole motherboard and/or the huge Noctua CPU cooler. It's not as tiny as with the Minis, but really a lot of work. Have a look at ifixit for repair/service guides for various Macs: www.ifixit.com/
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Jul 18, 2012 1:47:29 GMT
Your are on the lucky side, Chong. The Mac Mini is one of the very few Apple computers which is rather easy for service. I didn't have a look at the newest models, but I have one of the first unibody MacMini (still with a Core 2 Duo) around. Changing memory is very easy. Just turn the bottom plate and remove it. Then you have already access to the memory. Harddrive/SSD is more complicated, but should be possible with a bit patience and a guide from the internet. The older Mac Minis (I've had a lot of them), had plastic snap-in cases. With the right tools, it's no real problem to open the cases. The rest needs a bit patience. Still, the MacMinis aren't comparable to my PCs, which are much better regarding service/maintenance. But don't remind me of the procedure I have to do with my flagship PC when I want to change something that requires me to remove the whole motherboard and/or the huge Noctua CPU cooler. It's not as tiny as with the Minis, but really a lot of work. Have a look at ifixit for repair/service guides for various Macs: www.ifixit.com/Ah, thanks very much for the link. Now at least I have not to fear for a Mac Mini when I go that route after some confirmation from you. At least not tied to Apple mercilessly for any maintenance. Btw, how reliable is a Mac Mini so far from the many variations you had tried and managed? Is it it will run and run like "forever" in quote, as for 2.5" Toshiba or Hitachi 3.5" HDDs, without much maintenance? In other words, quite maintenance free?
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jul 18, 2012 8:31:59 GMT
Computers are not made for eternity. The MacMini is no exception here. It's also rather prone to dust and the ventilation could be blocked by dust.
BTW: Have a look at ifixit.com BEFORE you buy a MacMini. Look for yourself if you can live with it from the viewpoint of serviceability.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Jul 18, 2012 10:37:24 GMT
Computers are not made for eternity. The MacMini is no exception here. It's also rather prone to dust and the ventilation could be blocked by dust. Thanks noted. Actually, it's the same for PC and we have to dismantle once every 2 years to spring clean what's blown inside. Same for LT too. BTW: Have a look at ifixit.com BEFORE you buy a MacMini. Look for yourself if you can live with it from the viewpoint of serviceability. Thanks again. After looking thru some of the Mac Mini 2011 servicing, it's actually a piece of cake as I have done more difficult servicing, modes or assemblies like the Balanced Class D HA. I was from the manufacturing sector before for a long time.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Jul 26, 2012 12:26:33 GMT
Actually, what's the difference between backup and imaging. It seems not all the files are backup in my LT when using Win backup. So the best solution is still 1:1 copying of newer files over into the DAS?
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jul 27, 2012 0:13:07 GMT
You can do a backup in different ways. Imaging is also a kind of backup. An "image" is a 1:1 copy of a whole disk or just a partition on the disk. This makes it possible to restore the whole disk from the image file. Since an image is only a kind of "snapshot", it's only a part of a good backup strategy. Almost no one makes daily images because it can be time consuming. It's a good idea though to make periodically images from your computers, especially when using Windows, which is an OS that is quite prone to damages and corruption (and virus infections). I can't give you a general answer what backup strategy ist best for you, since I don't know what data you have and how you are using it. This article gives you some basic infos: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BackupI'd really recommend you to join a computer user group in Singapore. You seem to have only very basic knowledge of IT and it's almost impossible to communicate everything which would be needed by posts on a forum. In short: You need some practice and I can give you only some bits of theory here on the forum. If you join a computer user group near you, you'll see that the whole stuff isn't as complicated at all.
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XTRProf
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Post by XTRProf on Jul 27, 2012 1:18:01 GMT
I'd really recommend you to join a computer user group in Singapore. You seem to have only very basic knowledge of IT and it's almost impossible to communicate everything which would be needed by posts on a forum. Actually, don't need to as just the basic will seed the correct path to the way as I'm computer savvy enough although not at expert level as I'm not in the computer trade. Now I understand what is backup and imaging and can read up more when needed as I just need to have the concepts right. I asked this as I found out that not everything is backup when using Win backup. The files must be in certain folder to be backup. What I need is imaging as then that can also restore the computer when the HDD crash. Am I correct to say that?
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Jul 27, 2012 1:54:41 GMT
Yes. Images are mainly for restoring a whole disk or partition. They can be also used to deploy a bunch of identical computers. You have to install and configure only one of the computers, the other computers can be cloned with the image from the first computers. You'll have to change only the license codes (if needed), the hostname and perhaps the user accounts. The problem with images is that they are always in the same state as when they have been written. If your image is six months old, you can only restore that state. Regarding the updates for system and programs, this is not a problem since you can reapply all updates. But configuration changes and new/altered data would be lost. It's IMO absolutely OK to make an image every couple of months and to backup the data more frequent with other backup methods. I know almost no one who makes daily images from his personal computer. I'm quite lazy. Usually, I'll backup only my data. It's not a big deal for me to reinstall a system if it should crash. It doesn't happen often, to be more exact, it happens almost never (to me). Since I still have the really important data, a system crash wouldn't be a problem. It would give me only some work to reinstall the system. Since I have a bunch of computers around, it's usually no problem to switch to another computer is a problem can't be fixed instantly. Windows is quite prone to corruption and virus infections. Even some updates from Microsoft itself have destroyed some systems in the past. For Windows, it's even more important to make images frequently than for other operating systems, but the general rule is to make images on a regular base if you really rely on a system and need the ability to restore it fast. I can be a bit lazy at home since I don't have too much really important data. It's a totally different thing for corporate data. I couldn't be that lazy for corporate data.
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