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Post by PinkFloyd on Oct 28, 2007 16:33:19 GMT
Bloomin' heck, was just having a look at Head-Fi and noticed a Graham Slee Voyager thread.... had a good read of it and "WTF?" the amp is being judged on it's enclosure?
What on earth is that all about? In real life the enclosure is not only nice looking with a tactile feel about it, it's also bloody practical as it will take a few good knocks and bounce back up every time unscathed.
Comments like "This thing is starting to look like a joke" without even LISTENING to the amp? So now people are judging books by their covers, if the cover is cheap then the story can't be worth reading? Bullshit!
They say it's all about the SQ (as it should be) it now appears "they" were wrong. It now seems it's all about the bling factor and an amp is not to be judged by it's ability to reproduce music in the most natural way, it is to be judged by it's appearance.
One word on that............ BOLLOCKS!
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Post by MrJoshua on Oct 28, 2007 17:29:02 GMT
Mike This was the reaction from most at yesterday's meet too... I've emailed Graham with this and other comments and suggestions. The Green SOLO was almost universally loved, and when I actually got people to listen to the black plastic box people were very impressed with the sound from the Voyager.
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Sol
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Post by Sol on Oct 28, 2007 17:40:06 GMT
While I agree with Mike, you can't get away from the fact that people expect looks!
It's all fegging marketing related ... I know it doesn't sound (sic) related, but when I taught martial arts I tried to attract students to a new club by charging 3 quid. I got very few .. I started charging 6 quid and I had an influx! People thought they are getting something special!
Likewise, wrap a dogs dinner in a nice box and people will assume it's good, wrap a quality in a nice box and it will dissapear of the shelves!
The trouble with the voyager is that a nice ali box would look terrible within in a week of transpirting .. the challenge is to have a rugid box, that also looks good! Diffiuclt one.
Personally, I like the Voyagers looks .. but hey!
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leo
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Post by leo on Oct 28, 2007 17:46:52 GMT
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rowuk
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Post by rowuk on Oct 28, 2007 19:52:43 GMT
There are too many castrated individuals that can only make themselves feel important in the anonymity of the Internet. I don't know what lawn mower does for a living, but I really don't care either. I would suppose that PREJUDICE (judgement before knowledge) is fashionable among some groups. Hi Fi has ALWAYS been that way. Why should we expect headfi to be different?
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leo
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Post by leo on Oct 28, 2007 20:05:03 GMT
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Oct 28, 2007 20:57:57 GMT
It is because of the attack on the Voyager by people who have not listened to it that I stopped posting in Head Fi (6 days since my last post there). If you go to the second page of that thread you will see when I said so.
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leo
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Post by leo on Oct 28, 2007 21:46:26 GMT
Just sorry to see your thread get ruined Miguel, anyway well done mate as it was a good write up, at least some of us appreciated the effort you put into it
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Post by fanboi on Oct 28, 2007 22:12:50 GMT
Good for you Leo, your post seems to have brought back a little sense, although how long that lasts is anyone's guess. Miguel it is a real shame that you have had to withdraw because of a couple of individuals with an apparent axe to grind. I for one, have always found your reviews most informative, helpful and impartial, even if I have not said so. I have great respect for the amount of time and effort that goes into these, the discipline and documentation required, plus the literary skills (not only yours but other serious reviewers such as Pinkie, and others on head-fi) are beyond my natural inclinations. I am merely the happy recipient of these efforts. I do however, think that I have some ability to sift the wheat from the chaff. Head-fi will be the poorer for your leaving. Whatever, I put in my 2 cents worth there as well.
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mrarroyo
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Post by mrarroyo on Oct 29, 2007 1:27:38 GMT
Thanks guys. It is a shame that Head Fi has gone the way it has. Now if you do not have a rig several thousand dollars worth it seems you get laughed at. A pity because we now have amps like the Mini^3 and MiniBox-E which sell for $125 and $150 which are better IMO than some $400 units but which may not get used due to elitism.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2007 2:55:09 GMT
Miguel I second Tony Gs sentiments. Do the world a favour, and if a few people who really matter, from the other forum plead with you to reconsider, accept the invitation. Surely the moderators there can do what they are supposed to do? They are there for guidance, and to hopefully, ensure a higher standard in the long term. FWIW, I noticed that Josh appeared to be a fine steadying influence, as was Leo. Alex
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Post by merton on Oct 29, 2007 3:09:09 GMT
yeah.... they're all full of crap... it's a mess to tread through their posts!
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rowuk
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Post by rowuk on Oct 29, 2007 13:34:59 GMT
Could we have a forum extra for garbage from other fori (the plural of forum?)?
Somehow, I am disturbed when things like this end up right next to the high quality posts from the Slee-Team.
As a rule we do not defecate in our kitchen sinks (although the output through the drain would land in the same place), we have an extra room for that! Nobody minds much if it stinks in there, but the kitchen?
Actually, I am not sure that I need a link to garbage at all. If I am interested in foreign opinions, I will check out the others when I am in the mood!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2007 19:53:27 GMT
"Could we have a forum extra for garbage from other fori (the plural of forum?)?
Somehow, I am disturbed when things like this end up right next to the high quality posts from the Slee-Team." Rowuk It does disturb the flow doesn't it ? Many members don't look at the other forums, but would want to know about adverse comments about any of our forum members, or well deserved praise. What is wrong with posting this stuff in DSOTM ? SandyK
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Post by PinkFloyd on Oct 29, 2007 22:30:12 GMT
Talk about hypocrisy! There was me waffling on about not pasting in threads from other forums here and a couple of weeks later I start a thread about comments from another forum. It's actually similar, in a way, to the stuff that was being said on the other forum (DIY) with people who haven't even heard or seen the damned thing in real life spouting off crap about it from the comfort of their armchairs. Whatever happened to actually listening to a piece of equipment before stating an opinion? Sandy, you've probably already covered the "hypocrisy" angle in your own head but are too polite to say "you effin Hypocrite!"..... I hold my hands up, I am
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2007 22:48:26 GMT
Mike You were right to post what you did, as far as I am concerned. Perhaps we just need to post these things in a different location? The fact is, that our own members who also belong to the other forums, may miss the posts referred to, as they may only look there occasionally. It gives us a chance to "rally the troops " and perhaps help reverse the damage done by ill informed posters in the other forum itself. It doesn't matter a damn, whether it is Graham's products, Pink Floyd's reviews, or Argus Tuft who is being unfairly represented , or ridiculed. The members of this forum are a very loyal bunch. Let them be aware of what is going on in these special cases. SandyK
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Post by charleyphogg on Oct 30, 2007 1:54:55 GMT
You all ( too many to list, how bout manufactures, reviewers, tweakers... people that have been there and done that ) do such an irreplaceable service to those of us that are looking for opinions, guidance, synergy and what ever else any sane human could ever want.
How could anyone expect or demand that? It is an honor , not some damn right of life!
It seems all forums, hell, the whole internet for that matter, is full of buttwipes that the soul purpose is to do their damndest to ruin it for every one.
Please, don't forget those of us that truely appreciate each and every effort. Each and every millisecond that you slave over your passion, our passion of music.
Unfortunately there is always some yahoo's that only want to yank someones chain. More unfortunatley , when those of you, Graham for example, that go far beyond the extra mile for customers or anyone , it almost seems as they are more suciptible to rediculious attacks.
I don't know how anyone could demand the one on oneshipness (:0 ) some seem to expect. ^^ thats not spossed to look like what it looks like, that was for a made up word!!!!!
I guess the more that you offer, the more people take. Just wanted to say thank you for all each one of you do. Forget the yahoos, remember those of us who really appreciate your dedication and hard work.
Thanks once again, damn sure not for the last time.
Charley Phogg
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Post by bennyboy on Oct 31, 2007 8:20:32 GMT
Bloomin' heck, was just having a look at Head-Fi and noticed a Graham Slee Voyager thread.... had a good read of it and "WTF?" the amp is being judged on it's enclosure? What on earth is that all about? In real life the enclosure is not only nice looking with a tactile feel about it, it's also bloody practical as it will take a few good knocks and bounce back up every time unscathed. Comments like "This thing is starting to look like a joke" without even LISTENING to the amp? So now people are judging books by their covers, if the cover is cheap then the story can't be worth reading? Bullshit! They say it's all about the SQ (as it should be) it now appears "they" were wrong. It now seems it's all about the bling factor and an amp is not to be judged by it's ability to reproduce music in the most natural way, it is to be judged by it's appearance. One word on that............ BOLLOCKS! Ya! It's like that in the HiEnd home audio world as well. I think there's many out there with tin ears(most of HeadFi)that need the eye candy to see if the item is anygood. I've heard some small maker home amps that were Fugly as hell but sounded super uber great! Because of there lack of bling, these independent makers went belly up. A good example is PS audio! Paul and Stan audio, Paul was all into bling and Stan was into value. Paul's designs were pretty but Stans had better SQ. one day they split and Paul got to keep the name PS audio and Stan started new with SuperPhon. Stan's amps were many times better than Paul's but Pauls were total bling and three time the cost. Stan's had no bling and were within any persons budget, they had better SQ, better parts and better build. They were totally plain jane on the outside. SuperPhon is gone and PS is going strong!
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toad
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Post by toad on Oct 31, 2007 9:44:46 GMT
How about a good slogan for the Voyager that conveys it's sound quality.
"A home amp in your hand!"
"A home amp in your pocket!"
"Why compromise on SQ just because you're not at home."
etc etc.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2007 9:51:46 GMT
toad Don't give up your day job ! Your heart is in the right place though. SandyK
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toad
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Post by toad on Oct 31, 2007 10:40:50 GMT
They were just poor examples I thought the more marketing aware types may be able to come up with something a little better than my own weak efforts although I did like the last one
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Post by PinkFloyd on Oct 31, 2007 13:13:27 GMT
Don't venture out unless you've got a voyager. OK shoot me
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xerxes
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Post by xerxes on Oct 31, 2007 14:07:41 GMT
How about:
Graham Slee Voyager: Listen, and see the light.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Oct 31, 2007 14:22:25 GMT
Graham Slee Voyager - Discover the music.
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Post by PinkFloyd on Oct 31, 2007 14:23:43 GMT
Graham Slee Voyager - Boldly goes where no amp has gone before.
;D
Someone please shoot me!
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