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Post by clausdk on Apr 2, 2010 12:55:36 GMT
I bought a Samson SR850 on Wednesday. I've read the posts from clausdk and expected to get a rather good headphone for the price I paid (58CHF, it's about 36£ at the moment). The initial impression was not bad, but nowhere near my K702. The bass was quite interesting, clearly a different kind of bass as with the K702. I've retested after about 10 hours of burn-in with very varied results. Probably the need a lot more burn-in. I guess the are changing significantly in the first couple of hours. This would explain the very varied impressions I had. At the moment, I can't say a lot about this 'phones. However I'm sure to have found two points where they're not my cup of tea: I don't like the pads although they're better as they look. This point shouldn't be a real problem to solve as AKG pads are an alternative. What me bothers more is the fact that I find them very fatiguing at the moment. I think this is probably because they're not enough burned-in and because the pressure of the pads is a bit too much. I put these 'phones on one of my ceramic heads for burn-in. Usually the placement on the ceramic heads looses the clamping force a bit over the time. The headband itself was fine and I didn't feel an uncomfortable pressure. Even if they won't get exactly my cup of tea, the money is spent fine. And they're very modifiable. All has not been said and done. The SR850 is like the HD681 very easy to drive. The results with an iPod seem to be rather good. Wouldn't it be a good idea to start a new thread for the Samson SR850 and for other HD681 clones (if there are more of them)? First it would be very interesting to know if the SR850 is exact the same as one of the three HD681 variants. Maybe the SR850 is a thing of it's own and only shares some parts with the HD681. I'm not of much help here because I only own the SR850. I can't compare therefore. I have been taking the 850 apart, and they have different drivers than the 681, they look more modern ;D ;D I have also changed the cable and done some other mods to them, I like them better than the 681 and at the danish meet I was not alone.. But it is a matter of taste.. The bad thing about them is that they do need decent amplification, to get the bass right, it is OK out of my Ipod/Meizu, but not something that makes you dance around in the woods naked, but neither are the 681s.. I also like the build better it feels more solid, but the rods is microphonic wich is a bad thing.. Here is some pictures of how they look now, leather pads, leatherheadband and Kimber-cable
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Post by clausdk on Apr 2, 2010 13:06:45 GMT
Given that the unmodded 681s are already very toppy (not a major problem for me as my advancing years are curtailing HF anyway), wouldn't removing the foam increase the HF even more? Not as much as one should think, the real difference comes when one is using a different type of foam.. Just removing the foam normally makes phones more clear sounding,.. I have experimented a lot with the foamtypes, that are normally used to filter my aquariums.. The difference is the permability of the foam, more than the thickness a closed foam brings the highs down and by doing that it increases the bass, the mid area seems unaffected.. Nevertheless using foam in front of the drivers is not the right way to trim phones IMO, as it hurts the overall SQ of the phone..
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elysion
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Post by elysion on Apr 2, 2010 13:52:10 GMT
Where did you find the leather pads? How much do they cost?
Your modded SR850 looks cool. Like the HD681 the SR850 is so cheap it can easily be modded. It's not a catastrophe if they would got damaged while modding.
I wonder if they have different brands for selling different variants of the same general type of headphone. If Claus is right and the Samson SR850 is overall a bit better than the Superlux HD681, then the price difference between them would make some sense.
The Samson brand is well available in Switzerland. Up to date I haven't found a single seller inside Switzerland that sells products with Superlux brand. With postage an imported HD681 would cost me at least the same (or more) than I paid for the SR850. And 58CHF is still dirt cheap.
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Post by elysion on Apr 2, 2010 14:04:42 GMT
I have plans to make a new headband from a single piece of thick leather. Perhaps a thick textile material as used with some MB Quart headphones would do the job too.
The worst problem for me are still the pads. I'm not happy with the pressure of the original pads. I hope the are losing a bit of their clamping force over the time I put them on my ceramic head. As the headband is of auto-adjusting type, I suspect the pads to be the problem. I did not have a problem with the headband at all.
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Post by clausdk on Apr 2, 2010 14:10:14 GMT
Where did you find the leather pads? How much do they cost? Your modded SR850 looks cool. Like the HD681 the SR850 is so cheap it can easily be modded. It's not a catastrophe if they would got damaged while modding. Thanks I got the pads on ebay, but they are not to my liking, sound and comfort is good but I really hate the outside seem.. They were 22 € if I recall correct.. I use the superluxmodels to get better at modding, before I start modding more expensive gear, the 660 is not even a superlux phone anymore. It has become a cross between c-JAYS/Philips and superlux ;D ;D But I am having great fun On an other note my mother inlaw got some leather pieces with her home, to sew leather pads, if it turns out to be a succes, I will be making them avaliable like the headbands. Just imagine how cool it would look with a matching headband/pads in leather. I am on the lookout for some blue leather for a member here and if I could make matching pads it would be awesome, they are with some blue cable already..
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Post by clausdk on Apr 2, 2010 14:19:17 GMT
I have plans to make a new headband from a single piece of thick leather. Perhaps a thick textile material as used with some MB Quart headphones would do the job too. If a piece of thick leather is used like on the 701/2 it would be less comfortable, than soft skin, lots of people find the 701 uncomfy because of the pressure to the head.. Textile would be better IMO. Send me a PM and I can make you one of my headbands, I will be making some this evening anyway... If you want help with your leatherwork I will also be there for you..
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Post by elysion on Apr 2, 2010 17:20:37 GMT
You have PM. Thank you very much for the offer. Of course, I like to get one of the headbands you make. I have no problems with the leather headband of my K702. But you're right with the textile headbands. They are simply more comfortable than leather ones. A good example are my MB-Quart Quartphones 200. The are more comfortable than any other headphone I own and have a textile headband. The K702 is also perfect for my head, but the pressure from the headband is really a bit stronger than with the Quartphones 200. MB-Quart was refounded under the name GermanMAESTRO. They have about the same product line as the former MB-Quart. I'm thinking of getting a GMP400 from them. I have no hurry with this (I already spent more for headphones and accessories in the last few months as planned originally...). I wan't to get them as cheap as possible. In regard of comfort levels GermanMAESTRO / MB-Quart is almost perfect IMO. Good new headbands for HD681 and SR850 don't seem to be a problem and I think there are already many possibilites to make them (partially with leather, single-piece thick leather, textile). And additional possibility would be the material used for security-belts in cars. It's already in about the right width, is very durable and very light. Cutting the textile material from security-belts should be easy but it has to be sewed at the cut edges. As I don't own a sewing-machine I probably have to talk with my mother who has one... Textile headbands do have another advantage: The possibilites for coloring textile materials are almost endless. And you can easily do this at home. Unfortunately security-belts are mostly totally in black. What I miss are really cheap good replacement pads. You can find replacement pads on ebay (like Claus) or buy them from AKG. But in most cases the pads are almost as costly as the headphones themselves. A perfect solution would be a cheap textile headband with only a few cut edges to sew together with just as cheap ear-pad replacements. The color for the textile headband should be white because then it would be possible to colorate it with any color available as textile color. I don't own K500/K501's but I remember them to have a kind of textile material used with their pads. I've also thinked more than once about do-it-yourself pads for headphones. The use of sprayable foams or the foams Claus uses for his aquariums would be a possibility. The "outer shell" of the pads is more of a problem and not as easy to do as headbands. I have a woman in my circle of friends who is tailor. I only see her very seldom, but I can give her a call in the next few days and ask her what she thinks about it. As she is very experienced in her job, I guess she would be very helpful. I don't have a saddler in my circle of friends, but maybe it's an idea to look for one and to talk with him. I wonder if a saddler could make real leather ear-pads within a good price range (if he makes a production run of them). I'd imagine it's a lot of work and probably too costly.
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Post by elysion on Apr 3, 2010 16:40:19 GMT
My stock Samson SR850's have now about 70 hours on them.
They're already a lot better now. But I think they need at least 200-300 hours to come really on song.
The clamping force has already losed a bit because I put the 'phones on a ceramic head while burning-in. Headband pressure was no problem for me at all, but the pressure of the pads. I still don't like the stock pads.
I will let them a while in the stock configuration (beside replacing headband and pads). I'm curious how good the stock SR850 can get after serious burn-in. After that I consider a recabling a good possibility for a solid improvement.
If I interpret Claus' pictures correctly, then he has removed the foam above the drivers. What influence had this modification to SQ, Claus? The stock foam above the drivers feels rather "dense" when I put my fingers on it.
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Post by clausdk on Apr 3, 2010 20:23:37 GMT
My stock Samson SR850's have now about 70 hours on them. They're already a lot better now. But I think they need at least 200-300 hours to come really on song. The clamping force has already losed a bit because I put the 'phones on a ceramic head while burning-in. Headband pressure was no problem for me at all, but the pressure of the pads. I still don't like the stock pads. I will let them a while in the stock configuration (beside replacing headband and pads). I'm curious how good the stock SR850 can get after serious burn-in. After that I consider a recabling a good possibility for a solid improvement. If I interpret Claus' pictures correctly, then he has removed the foam above the drivers. What influence had this modification to SQ, Claus? The stock foam above the drivers feels rather "dense" when I put my fingers on it. Removing the foam does not make a very big change, it is just a habbit I have It makes it easier to hear what I do not like, if that makes any sense I also removed the sticker on the grills, which gives a bit better balance to my ears. A small amount of filterwool in the "outhercup" and removing the piece of paper there gives them a more "open" character and a tiny tiny bit more bass, at least that is what I tell my self about the bass.. What do you wish to change and into what ?? Maybe we could help each other.. My whish is to get a bit more bass out of them and reduce the cups vibrations, the first part is easy just use a more "closed" type of foam, but I would like to do it behind the driver instead, which is a bit more tricky.. Dense is not the right word, so I will stop using that, "closed" is a better word for what I mean. Dense could mean thickker walls in the foam and not less permeable.. That is one of the most frustrating things on theese forums, the lack of words and you probally speak (somekind of) German and me being danish opens a lot of room for irritating language/translating errors, but I am sure we will get a goood result in the end You are probally more used to it than me, having four different languages in your country Have anybody tried Toads papermod from the skytronics, on a pair of superlux ??
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Post by elysion on Apr 4, 2010 3:00:44 GMT
What do you wish to change and into what ?? Maybe we could help each other.. Of course, very good idea. My first problem is: My SR850's are far from being fully burned in the moment. The have changed massively in the first few dozens of hours. Most likely I can't say exactly what's not good with them as long as they're changing. I hope that I can talk about the shortcomings of my SR850 more precisely in a few days. My general feeling of them was that they are too fatiguing. This is already a bit better, but still they're not ideal for long listening sessions. I'm not sure if there's a bit annoying HF (like I have in my HD560 Ovation II) or if it has some relationship with the voluminous bass (I like the bass, but it was almost a bit too much in the first few hours; I think it's getting better though). I guess it could be the vibration of the cups you mentioned which is fatiguing my ears. You're a couple of steps ahead of me, as you already have replacement pads for them. The stock headband is OK for me regarding comfort, but I doesn't look good (the leather ones you make look much better). IMO the pads are the worsest thing with the stock SR850 (and HD681). I intend to burn-in the SR850 fully (I think 150-200 hours should be a solid mark), before I'm beginning to change anything. I have another reason to do this so: I have plans to make (small) headphone-parties. A cheap but good headphone would be great for this purpose, because it'd be possible for almost everyone to buy one without spending much money. Thus it's interesting to see to which point the stock SR850 can grow in SQ. Replacing the pads and the headband is almost a must for extended use. My HD560 Ovation II need also some reworking. The annoying HF there is also fatiguing. I got this one used and it had no foam above the drivers anymore. I replaced the non-existing foam with very fine cloth from an old and very often washed t-shirt. Beside the color it looks a bit similar to the cloth above the K702 drivers (my cloth is not just a fine, but still very fine). Maybe the filterwool you use or other damping material can solve our problems (I hope it does the job also with the HD560 Ovation II). Dense is not the right word, so I will stop using that, "closed" is a better word for what I mean. Dense could mean thickker walls in the foam and not less permeable.. That is one of the most frustrating things on theese forums, the lack of words and you probally speak (somekind of) German and me being danish opens a lot of room for irritating language/translating errors, but I am sure we will get a goood result in the end You are probally more used to it than me, having four different languages in your country I know exactly what you mean. I work for an international corporation since 2007. The corporation has its origin in Sweden and has dependancies in Denmark, Norway, Poland, France, UK and Switzerland. Communication between the dependancies is in English. Imagine the problems which can occur when people with differenct mother tongues talk together in English. But usually there's a solution for everything. Even the differences between the different flavours of German are quite big. The Germans have many dialects just as we have here in Switzerland with our Swiss-German. The Austrians also have a special language style. I understand (almost) every German language variant, this in contrast to many Germans who often have problems with our Swiss-German. Probably it's about the same with the nordic languages. Danish, Swedish and Norwegian are very similiar languages (and I heard they understand each other). But still there are some distinctive differences. To describe in words what you're hearing is sometimes difficult too. Mike is very good with that, although sometimes I get the impression his descriptions are a tiny little bit too euphoric. But that's what music is all about: Music can make you very euphoric and happy.
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Post by elysion on Apr 4, 2010 3:11:45 GMT
This are the first things on the "to-do-list" for my SR850: – Searching for cheap and good replacement pads (I don't wan't to spend more for new pads as I spent for the whole SR850). – Replacing the stock headband with the leather one your are sending me. – Searching for textile materials as alternative headbands. I'd imagine the comfort would be even better with textile headbands. Different colors should be also possible with textile headbands. - Making tests with alternative damping material. Main purpose for me is to remove the cup vibrations (or whatever is fatiguing my ears). I will have a look at ebay for replacent pads. The price (including postage) is crucial to me in the end. Therefore I will also compare for how much I can get original AKG pads (I hope to find velour ones, perhaps those from the K272HD fit well).
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Post by elysion on Apr 4, 2010 3:19:30 GMT
General question (again): Should we start a separate Samson SR850 thread?
I'm not really sure with this. HD681/SR850 are very similiar but they're not exactly the same.
Perhaps the HD681 thread gets too "crowded" if we put everything about the clones in this thread.
And by the way: There are three HD681 variants and the SR850 which is very similiar. Are there any other HD681 clones around? I wouldn't be too surprised if there're a couple of other clones around.
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Post by clausdk on Apr 4, 2010 7:29:43 GMT
General question (again): Should we start a separate Samson SR850 thread? I'm not really sure with this. HD681/SR850 are very similiar but they're not exactly the same. Perhaps the HD681 thread gets too "crowded" if we put everything about the clones in this thread. And by the way: There are three HD681 variants and the SR850 which is very similiar. Are there any other HD681 clones around? I wouldn't be too surprised if there're a couple of other clones around. I do think that the different models are NOT Superlux clones, but AKGclones, at least the outher design, I am quite certain is AKG's.. The insides are different, so clone is not the right word, because a clone is exately like the one before, lookalikes could be a better term, but this is just me babeling.. ;D This thread is already a mess, but you are right there should be another thread..
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Post by elysion on Apr 4, 2010 11:29:07 GMT
Yes. They cloned the AKG K24x Series. The SR850 is kind of HD681 rebrand. Probably from the same OEM manufacturer in China. Mike mentioned the name of this OEM manufacturer (the corporation behind everything), I don't recall the name at the moment. If they also work for AKG, then I'd be possible that all these 'phones have the same origin. Strange, isn't it?
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Post by clausdk on Apr 4, 2010 11:42:25 GMT
Yes. They cloned the AKG K24x Series. The SR850 is kind of HD681 rebrand. Probably from the same OEM manufacturer in China. Mike mentioned the name of this OEM manufacturer (the corporation behind everything), I don't recall the name at the moment. If they also work for AKG, then I'd be possible that all these 'phones have the same origin. Strange, isn't it? The producer is Superlux and are from Taiwan, it is not sure that the Samsons are made the same place, but they sure look a lot like them.. I think that AKG's protection has runned out on the shape, so now it is a free for all and that is why we see all those copies, but this is only a guess.. If that is not the case I do not understand why they do not stop the copying.. All those companies are maybe owned by the same filthy rich people Just like a lot of food and cosmetics in europe are made by Nestlé or Unilever under a ton of brands
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2010 12:02:06 GMT
I'm not sure if there's a bit annoying HF (like I have in my HD560 Ovation II) or if it has some relationship with the voluminous bass (I like the bass, but it was almost a bit too much in the first few hours; I think it's getting better though). My HD560 Ovation II need also some reworking. The annoying HF there is also fatiguing. I have those as well, so if you find a solution do share. What amp(s) are you using? For me, the 560 OvII get most usage on my Ming Da (all valve). They have also found a new freind with the Indeed G2. Both amps are very laid back (G2 a tad too far) in the HF area which suits the sennys well.
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Post by elysion on Apr 5, 2010 8:02:04 GMT
In the last few weeks the K702 was my favourite phone. But before this (while burning-in the K702), I did extended listening with the HD560 OvII, mostly with a stock MF X-Can V2. It sounded great.
At the moment my situation regarding amps is a bit complicated. As I'm quite new to be a headphone-addict my amp armory is still under construction.
I have three X-Cans (all bought used from auctions), a V1 (condition OK, but I have to replace the tubes soon), a V2 (condition good), a V3 (one channel doesn't work at the moment). And I bought four new V-Can for a good price here in Switzerland. The former MF distributor in Switzerland closed his high-end-audio department. Those four V-Cans have been my last change to get new MF products here in Switzerland. My intention is to mod them (at least opamp change for all), but I'm a rookie regarding soldering.
First I have to get the equipment needed (and the parts of course). I have some friends who can help me with this. Most likely I need a lot of time to get all amps working the way I like them...
Or long story short: My amp armory is limited at the moment.
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Post by elysion on Apr 5, 2010 8:11:18 GMT
If I find a solution for the HF with the HD560 OvII, I'll share. For sure!
It's not my top priority at present, but I hope to find time for this in the next few months.
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Post by attilio on Apr 5, 2010 16:23:52 GMT
I wish I had the nerve to take that lot on, you have my sincerest admiration Attilio
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Post by elysion on Apr 6, 2010 13:48:35 GMT
In the last few weeks the K702 was my favourite phone. But before this (while burning-in the K702), I did extended listening with the HD560 OvII, mostly with a stock MF X-Can V2. It sounded great. At the moment my situation regarding amps is a bit complicated. As I'm quite new to be a headphone-addict my amp armory is still under construction. I have three X-Cans (all bought used from auctions), a V1 (condition OK, but I have to replace the tubes soon), a V2 (condition good), a V3 (one channel doesn't work at the moment). And I bought four new V-Can for a good price here in Switzerland. The former MF distributor in Switzerland closed his high-end-audio department. Those four V-Cans have been my last change to get new MF products here in Switzerland. My intention is to mod them (at least opamp change for all), but I'm a rookie regarding soldering. First I have to get the equipment needed (and the parts of course). I have some friends who can help me with this. Most likely I need a lot of time to get all amps working the way I like them... Or long story short: My amp armory is limited at the moment. Good news: First problem solved. My X-Can V3 just got a pair of vintage 60's Phillips Heerlen E88CC SQ (Special Quality) NOS tubes with goldpins. The channel problem is fixed (probably one of the stock tubes was bad). The SQ tubes sound heavenly with deep punchy bass (togehter with K702). I will try again with the HD560 OvII and the SR850 as soon as the new tubes are reasonably burned-in. I'm very happy with the new tubes.
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Post by derekrumble on Apr 20, 2010 10:40:00 GMT
So the fuss is dying down now about the HD681s. People are starting to come out of the woodwork and agreeing that the treble is a bit hard, they are only good with a filter, they need new pads, etc etc.
But that misses the point. How on earth can a sub-twenty quid 'phone be a top quality item? It can't. What these 'phones do is give good.. no... very good... value for money. As they are, from the box, they are a lively and involving listening experience. No tiring colourations; yes, a but peaky at the top... and the bass is tuned a tad on the fullsome side but this doesn't detract from their sheer musicality.
Cheap enough to be considered disposable, robust enough to last a long as you need them. Perfect travelling comanion with a laptop, MP3 player or whatever.
At twenty quid you're allowed to appreciate their strengths but to carp on about how they don't quite do this and that is a bit much. In a Yahoo group I belong to I flagged up these phones as good value - and one guy quickly looks them up on the 'net and immediately says something along the lines of 'but they have a 6dB peak at 6k.... ' Duh... ? Hi-Fi news this moth reviewed a 'speaker costing 10s of grands with a FR that looked like a cross section of the Alps. Come ON !
These 681s are cheap and sound better than you've a right to expect at that price. Good.
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Post by zephyr on Apr 20, 2010 15:13:58 GMT
They are great value for money. Apparently I'm the only one who has major comfort issues with them. Heat & sweat building up, the foam on the insides of the cups is thin and after wearing them for 40-60 minutes my cartilage hurts really bad.
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Post by derekrumble on Apr 20, 2010 16:01:29 GMT
They are great value for money. Apparently I'm the only one who has major comfort issues with them. Heat & sweat building up, the foam on the insides of the cups is thin and after wearing them for 40-60 minutes my cartilage hurts really bad. I agree about the cartilage issue - 1 hour at most for me too. Can't see why or how they hurt - my ears are totally inside the cups but after a while it hurts.
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Post by bobford on Apr 21, 2010 19:17:55 GMT
Do the HD681s leak a lot of sound?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2010 20:20:17 GMT
HD681 is a 'half open' can, a bit misleading as a can is open or closed. An open can leaks almost as much sound to the outside world as towards your ear. A closed can doesn't, or at least it is supposed to, NOT leak sound nor let sound in. An half open can is in between actually and does leak SOME sound. Not nearly as much as an open can but certainly more then a closed can. If you are sitting next to someone in a quiet surrounding they will hear a bit of sound and you will also hear a bit of your environment (TV on e.t.c.)
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