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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 16, 2009 0:28:04 GMT
As far as I am aware this is a "first" world exclusive under the bonnet preview of the Musical Fidelity V-Can headphone amp. I have been previewing the V-Can for a while and thought it time that the under the bonnet stuff got an airing..... here we go!     MC33079 Quad High-Speed op amp, BD 139 / 140 / C550C transistors.... craptastic Jamicon capacitors all over the place....... Nice to see that MF have eventually fitted 1000uF output caps but sad to see they are not non polar types, sad to see they have fitted 4.7uF input caps and not 10uF non polars. I won't go into detail about what they "haven't" fitted (if price were no object) but will say this is possibly the most tweakable of all their headphone amps to date. Unlike their "X" offerings this little puppy relies on an external DC supply as opposed to an AC supply so, you guessed it, it's essential the provided wallwart is BINNED and replaced by something that will supply quality regulated DC instead of the crap the dinky little wallwart punts out. So much to say about this little amp but let's not run before we can walk...... I hope the pictures are enough to get this thread off the ground. I'll be back  |
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Post by skunkworks on Feb 16, 2009 6:47:16 GMT
Very interesting. Before I bought my X-can v3 I was thinking of buying this one. But then I found the v3 for less money on a local auction site.  |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 17, 2009 22:27:11 GMT
The V-Can is still pretty much in the "burning in" stage having only had about 300 hours of use but, already, it's showing what a very capable amp it is.
I went into this thinking a £95 amp couldn't possibly be "up there" with the likes of a Graham Slee Solo so please don't think I'm some kind of MF (Musical Fidelity) bum boy when I say this amp is not only "up there" but also "beyond" in certain areas.
It's good, it's bloody good. The detail this little puppy brings to your ears is phenomenal, I'm genuinely hearing subtle nuances in recordings that I have never heard before.... not only is the detail "there" it is also "placed" with enough space around it to allow you to home in on it.
Both Miguel and I agree that the X-Can v2 is a "fun" listen..... the V-Can has been injected with laughing gas, it's absolutely MENTAL when it comes to imaging, dynamics, detail, pace, rhythm and timing.... no, really, it is!
It drives most 'phones very well but struggles with the likes of AKG K-701 when you crank the volume right up, just seems to run out of gas, but at low to medium levels it performs admirably with the harder to drive 'phones.
Not a valve in sight and, as far as I know, MF's first valveless headphone amp.... funny thing is, it still possesses the MF house sound but is BRUTALLY honest in it's presentation.... no rose tinted valve spectacles on this baby... what it sees is what your ears get, warts and all.
I've been running her alongside a Graham Slee Solo, a Graham Slee Novo, an x-can v2, a project headbox and the SCHA..... the V-Can comes out top every time, with a wide selection of music and headphones, I read the MF blurb about "high end in a crap package" and thought it sounded like bullshit..... I've heard the amp, it ISN'T bullshit.
Miguel, I'll send her over to you (I'll whip up a 115V PSU) and see what you make of it.....
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 18, 2009 21:18:56 GMT
The only really annoying apsect of this amp, so far, is the immediacy of the volume control.... just crank her slightly from zero and, WHAMMO!, your ears almost burst..... I can see why "What Hi-Fi" didn't spend more than 5 minutes with the amp ;D Bloody annoying and it begs the question "WHY" do MF do this with all their headphone amps?
The answer could well be a perception of "power" to the punter in the shop who cranks the dial 10% of the way an has his ears blown off.... he's gonna think "wow! this is one powerful amp"...... WRONG!
If this is MF's reason for setting the gain too high then they really have to give more respect to the end user.... most of us want to use the full travel of the pot and not the first quarter turn..... we all know (don't we?) that a pot performs at it's best in the mid section (better channel tolerance) and also offers lower noise.... why oh why do they insist on assuming all their customers are idiots who like having their ears blown off?
The same old "left channel first / right channel second" scenario applies with the V-Can (as it does with the v2 / v3 / v8) reducing the gain will minimise this artefact and will make for a much more civilised "end user" volco experience...... are you listening MF or are you too busy drinking claret, smoking cigars and playing clarinets??
I have listened "past" this little minor niggle (the pork at "what Hi-Fi" couldn't see past it and stamped it with "3" stars) and I still reckon this is MF's finest headphone amp to date.... given a little work and a small outlay it could well be one of the finest headphone amps out there.......
Why, oh why do they always ramp these things up as "the best thing since sliced bread" but not go the extra mile and actually make them so? Their bullshit rich marketing is becomming very transparent and I'm sick of SHOUTING out to them about silly things like gain, output caps, high temperature caps.... blah blah blah........
Too much claret and clarinet and not enough listening Anthony!
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Post by dejanm on Feb 18, 2009 22:04:54 GMT
Pink,
Do I understand you correctly: you are claiming that this amp is better than V2 ? And you have already moded V2 .... and you are listening not moded V-Can, correct ?
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allenf
250+
tangled up in blue
Posts: 287
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Post by allenf on Feb 19, 2009 7:56:01 GMT
It's a flawed product then?  I can't understand how such a talented designer can get it so wrong with the gain setting. No excuses about impedance please, it just means Senns become unusable a little higher up the dial than Grados... IMO a design which blooms into a comfortably loud volume at around 10:30 - 11:30 will be of "higher quality" subjectively (and costs nothing extra to implement) than one which rips your ears off at 8 o'clock, cheap pot/channel imbalance notwithstanding. Nevermind. |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 19, 2009 12:00:48 GMT
Pink, Do I understand you correctly: you are claiming that this amp is better than V2 ? And you have already moded V2 .... and you are listening not moded V-Can, correct ? Not "better" just different and it's a difference I like! What Hi-Fi say "the sound produced is certainly full bodied, but there’s a lack of subtlety"..... erm, what the hell does a "lack of subtlety" mean? I like my music raw and dynamic, subtle and coloured is ok if you want an easy listen, if you want a warts and all presentation then "subtle" doesn't come into it.... the V-can is NOT subtle, that's the difference |
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allenf
250+
tangled up in blue
Posts: 287
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Post by allenf on Feb 19, 2009 12:51:12 GMT
How does the V-can compare with something like the Heed Can Amp?
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 19, 2009 23:40:28 GMT
I wonder if a mod similar to the one that SandyK discussed w/ you and which has been implemented on the X-Can V2 can be done to this amp to reduce its gain a bit. Well..... I spent a while under the bonnet and the resistors responsible for gain are R8 and R108 (10Kohm).... there is also a parallel 100pF ceramic. I'm still in the process of faffing about with things and currently have 1K in R8 / R108 and 220pF in C8 / 108..... a LOT better but still haven't tried every permutation.... I have soldered in sockets to make resistor rolling possible so it won't be long before I find the perfect value. I got a bit carried away when I was under the hood Miguel, those Jamicon caps were getting on my nerves so I plucked a few select caps from my armoury and installed them in stages (taking notes at each stage).....    Replaced the 4.7uF input caps with 10uF Black Gate non polars (just to try them, no capacitors in this position is ideal)..... fitted some fine golds, some Elna's and some Wimas..... Black Gate 470uF non polar output caps blah blah blah..... Bottom line (so far) my dislike of "Black Gates" has been confirmed..... the 10uF BG insertion was pretty much negligable but the 470F insertion was most definitely noticeable with a resultant muddiness to the sound... these BG's have a few hundred hours on them by the way.... I will be trying the 1000uF / NP Yellow Nitai next as they have given the best results in the X-Can v3. The kingpin in this amp (cap wise) is C5 / C105 (the blue ones) I am currently auditioning precision alternatives (390nF)...... the value alters the entire tonality so it's paramount you get this right, these puppies really are the "tuner" and to "tune in" they have to be be spot on (per channel)...... If you want to go "warmer" then try 500nF or so More to come. |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 20, 2009 11:30:02 GMT
Next up I'm going to remove the input caps and replace with axial ferrite beads.... then remove the black gate output caps and try the 1000uF Nitai types.... remove the reverse polarity protection diode and fit an axial ferrite bead in its place.... will report back  |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 20, 2009 22:04:03 GMT
Ahhhhh....... that's better! Spent some time adjusting what I did the other day and now have the SQ I am happy with I removed the input caps and fitted axial ferrite bead inductors in their place.... big improvement in clarity, bass response..... removed the reverse polarity protection diode and fitted an axial ferrite bead inductor in it's place..... another improvement, subtle but noticeable...... Axial ferrite bead inductors in position:  Removed the Black Gate output caps and fitted the Nitai 1000uF non polars.... as expected (from experience of using these in v1 / v2 / v3 and v8) BIG improvements in overall tonality, bass quality and clarity (these caps IMO have close to zero insertion loss, they may be cheap but they are excellent and beat the likes of Black Gate hands down when you want the sonic characteristics of a cap to be invisible) The Nitai 1000uF:  Settled on 3k3 for the gain resistor..... the stock 10K is RIDICULOUS and no wonder "what Hi-Fi" were pissed off with the volco...... it was NOT user friendly BLASTING your ears at the 8am position.... not good ;D 3K3 in position (socketed):  Still a bit of experimentation to be done in this area but, for the time being, 3K3 is a good starting point.   As I type this the V-Can is masturbating my ears with a very "honest", revealing sound.... every last nuance and macro detail is being conveyed with total honesty, there is no filler covering the cracks.... in yer face, warts and all delivery. This is good with a well recorded piece but can equate to a pretty harsh listen with a less than well recorded piece of music..... it all depends on what you like, if you like your music warts and all then the V-Can delivers.... if you prefer a silk stocking between you and the music then look elsewhere. Is it worth £95? No..... not at all. Is it worth spending another £150 to make it better? Yes. The stock DC wallwart is a joke, there are a lot of aspects of the amp than can (and need to be improved) be improved.... if you're not DIY inclined then avoid this one like the plague, if you don't mind getting your hands dirty then this one may be for you. I know what I'm doing, have spent a couple of days on it, have thrown in parts I have in stock and designed a regulated linear PSU around it..... not everyone can do this! If you can do it then go for it...... it's worth that extra bit of effort. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2009 22:33:23 GMT
Mike
matt7941 got excellent results when he replaced the MC33079 quad I.C. with the LM837 in his MF A3 , which would appear to use similar circuitry in that area.
Alex
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bullpup
Been here a while! 
How much is that doggy in the window?
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Post by bullpup on Feb 21, 2009 10:41:50 GMT
Great stuff Mike
Bearing in mind the silly money that secondhand X-cans seem to make on Ebay at the moment this has to be a very cost effective alternative. Are you going to do an upgrade kit when you have finished your alchemy?
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 21, 2009 12:05:45 GMT
Hi Sandy,
I will be fitting a Dil14 socket and have the OPA4227, OPA404 and OPA4228 to try.... I'll see if I can get hold of the LM part you mention too.
Mike.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2009 15:43:20 GMT
Mike
You mention doing work on the X_Can V8 - have you written about it as I kept an eye from last year when you said you intended to get one opened up?
Thanks, juke
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 24, 2009 21:16:38 GMT
OK...... quad opamps are ready to be rolled in so it's time to prepare the V-Can to accept these puppies. It's very similar to "valve rolling" in the v2 / v3 etc. except this time you are rolling opamps into sockets instead of valves into sockets. What you will need for this exercise is one HOT soldering iron as MF use that shitty unleaded stuff which is a bastard to melt..... I go for around 480C when I'm dealing with this stuff. First thing we need to do is remove the 14 pin opamp from the PCB. For this you'll need your soldering iron and a desolder pump.... the idea is to quickly melt each solder joint and, as soon as it flows, suck the solder up with the pump..... as soon as you have made your way round each of the 14 joints the opamp can be released from the board:  Don't wreck the opamp by prising it out with pliers.... if you have sucked up all the solder from each individual joint it should pop out intact and ready to be rolled into a socket (more on this later)  Opamp removed from the board. Next job is to fit the 14 pin DIL socket (I find the turned pin types are the best)..... to hold the socket in place while you solder each pad, one at a time, it's a good idea to bend both furthest away pins to hold the socket in place.......  DIL14 socket soldered into position. The secret here is hot iron and FAST.... don't piss about on the joint for more than a split second...... should look like this when you're finished:  There you go...... now can now roll your quad chip of choice into the socket.... for illustration purposes I have rolled in the chip I desoldered:  Simple as that! I'll report back when I have tried a few different chips in the V-Can. |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 24, 2009 21:56:03 GMT
I have also replaced the 16V / 1000uF caps with 16V / 2200uF (Samwha VA series) types.... a slight improvement in air and a bigger improvement in bass response, midrange articulation and dynamics.....   Lots more to try with this puppy before I even contemplate providing a "kit".... so far so good though  |
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oldson
Been here a while!
Older than a well used glove
Posts: 414
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Post by oldson on Feb 25, 2009 22:02:31 GMT
The V-Can is still pretty much in the "burning in" stage having only had about 300 hours of use but, already, it's showing what a very capable amp it is. I went into this thinking a £95 amp couldn't possibly be "up there" with the likes of a Graham Slee Solo so please don't think I'm some kind of MF (Musical Fidelity) bum boy when I say this amp is not only "up there" but also "beyond" in certain areas. It's good, it's bloody good. The detail this little puppy brings to your ears is phenomenal, I'm genuinely hearing subtle nuances in recordings that I have never heard before.... not only is the detail "there" it is also "placed" with enough space around it to allow you to home in on it. Both Miguel and I agree that the X-Can v2 is a "fun" listen..... the V-Can has been injected with laughing gas, it's absolutely MENTAL when it comes to imaging, dynamics, detail, pace, rhythm and timing.... no, really, it is! It drives most 'phones very well but struggles with the likes of AKG K-701 when you crank the volume right up, just seems to run out of gas, but at low to medium levels it performs admirably with the harder to drive 'phones. Not a valve in sight and, as far as I know, MF's first valveless headphone amp.... funny thing is, it still possesses the MF house sound but is BRUTALLY honest in it's presentation.... no rose tinted valve spectacles on this baby... what it sees is what your ears get, warts and all. I've been running her alongside a Graham Slee Solo, a Graham Slee Novo, an x-can v2, a project headbox and the SCHA..... the V-Can comes out top every time, with a wide selection of music and headphones, I read the MF blurb about "high end in a crap package" and thought it sounded like bullshit..... I've heard the amp, it ISN'T bullshit. Miguel, I'll send her over to you (I'll whip up a 115V PSU) and see what you make of it..... as the new owner of a GS solo srg(intro), i am interested in hearing you elaborate on your comments comparing the v-can with the GS range? novo, srg intro, srg/psu1 where would you place the v-can. i already have this (nagging) voice , in my head, saying go and buy 1 and hear for yourself! please tell me its not as good as my solo cheers |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Feb 27, 2009 22:11:15 GMT
I've been listening to a lot of amps / opamps lately and haven't been so "tuned in" in a good while.... to cut a long story short, I rolled in an OPA4227 and it's a total revelation in the V-Can. Very OPA627 in signature and a MAJOR leap up in SQ from the stock chip.... awesome   |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 17, 2009 11:08:34 GMT
I really like that "chicken head knob"! Mike, should the rubber feet be further apart? Those are not the stock feet Miguel, they are the ones I use on the Little Pinkie and, NO, they should not be further apart.... the amp sits very solidly on the deck and has an extra bit of height to accomodate the chicken head knob (again, not stock)..... nice little amp ain't it? |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 17, 2009 11:31:03 GMT
Are you going to do an upgrade kit when you have finished your alchemy? Yes! I am working on the instructions right now and should be in a position to supply kits within a couple of weeks. I have decided to go with the superb SAMWHA VA series of capacitors, which are long life, low impedance and 130C temperature rated... great for audio and the use of them in the V-Can will ensure many, many years of trouble free service, ie: they won't leak and bulge after a year like the stock Jamicons tend to. The kit will include a full compliment of capacitors and include, higher rated filter caps (2200uF), higher rated input caps, non polar output caps etc. etc. High quality radial ferrite links will be included to replace the reverse polarity protection diode and to jumper over the input caps should the owner decide to remove them. I will also supply the 3k3 resistors to alter the gain and make the volume control a bit more "useable", I will also be providing a turbo kit which will comprise the above along with a DIL14 turned pin socket and OPA4227. So, there will be a cap upgrade and a cap and opamp upgrade kit available which takes the V-Can to another level of perfomance altogether... I have yet to experiment with the OPA404, I'll be trying that soon. |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 17, 2009 19:39:28 GMT
I'm also going to try OPA4134 and OPA4132 but they are only available as SOIC.... shouldn't be too difficult to extend the legs and solder them onto a DIL14 turned pin socket. Glue a centre mount onto the DIL14 socket then attach chip (small blob of epoxy) and then solder on thin hook up wires to the legs and then solder the wires into the DIL14 socket.... easy enough with a large magnifying glass and steady pair of hands Will report back with my chip rolling escapades shortly. |
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Post by skunkworks on Mar 18, 2009 16:07:12 GMT
This deserves a  Will there also be a upgrade set for the V-dac? |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 19, 2009 11:36:59 GMT
This deserves a Well... thank you very much Mr. Skunk I do try my best to get the most out of these amps whilst, at the same time, keeping the cost down.... there's no point buying a £95 amp and then spending £200 on it populating it with all sorts of boutique components is there? I aim to get the best out of the amp (immediate improvements, not those subtle types) and then offer a kit that will not cost the earth. The kit I am proposing to offer for the V-CANS will be £35, this will include all the capacitors, ferrite links, gain resistors and a comprehensive instruction sheet (which I have now prepared) I will also be offering a turbo kit which will comprise all of the above PLUS DIL14 socket and opamp for those wishing to replace the opamp. I have still to evaluate OPA404KP, OPA4134, OPA4132 and OPA4228.... OPA4227 totally transforms the SQ from quite good to bloody awesome... it will be interesting to hear what effect the others mentioned has. The turbo kits will be priced something like this: V-Cap + OPA4227 £53 V-Cap + OPA4228 £53 V-Cap + OPA4132 £50 V-Cap + OPA4134 £45 V- Cap + OPA404KP £60 Hopefully each opamp will have it's own sonic signature (ie: warm, neutral, organic etc.) and V-CANS owners will have a choice dependant on their sonic preferences.... the above prices reflect the difference in cost between the opamps and don't necessarily mean the most expensive sounds the best! |
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Post by PinkFloyd on Mar 19, 2009 12:01:49 GMT
PS: Chicken head knobs, pointy knobs and conventional knobs are also available (as are the high quality rubber feet) as well as high quality gold plated quad Phono sockets (the stock ones are gold on the connectors but tin everywhere else / CHEAP).... this is a great little amp to Turbo charge and it won't take a lot of effort to get it sounding awesome as well as looking awesome! The enclosure is actually not as shitty as What Hi-Fi make out, it's solid and a nice shape, the only thing spoiling it is all that tacky writing on the top... some 800 grade wet / dry paper and an aerosol can of paint is all that's required to get rid of that..... In fact. you could spray it all... end panels, the lot! I'll be spraying mine, just a case of deciding which colour to go for.... black is just Soooooooo yesterday isn't it? What about pure white? a nice mirror finish white would be great and the chicken head knob would look the dog's bollox up against it..... yeh, white Right, I'm off to get a couple of spray cans of paint.... watch this space  |
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