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Post by Bootzilla on May 7, 2008 20:35:25 GMT
I currently run a Musical Fidelity X-CAN v2 (totally stock) to drive Denon AH-D2000 headphones. The Denons are extremely comfortable and the sound is detailed and dynamic. I could happily live with this setup for a long time.
I recently acquired a universal player with XLR outputs and I started wondering how it would sound connected directly to a headphone amp with XLR inputs.
Does anyone use Denon cans with a headphone amp that has XLR inputs? If so, I would be very interested to hear about it. Any comparisons to an X-CAN based rig would be interesting, as well.
Thanks!
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Post by Bootzilla on May 8, 2008 13:02:36 GMT
You have opened a large can of worms! Many will tell you that XLR's (balanced connections) are only needed for very long cable runs. I and others will tell you that in some setups the sound is better with XLR's provided the entire rig has enough resolution and good sound to take advantage of it. Personally unless you have sunked well over $5,000 into the system (power conditioning, source, amp, power cords, interconnects, cans and their recable) the XLR's will not make a difference. I am now wearing my bullet proof vest and flame proof suit. Good morning, and thanks for the prompt response! I am new here, and I certainly did not intend to raise a controversial subject. My source component is an Esoteric DV-60 universal player, which is plugged into a PS Audio Quintessence power conditioner. As mentioned, the cans are Denon AH-D2000's with the stock cable. (I also have Sennheiser HD580's with the Cardas cable.) I am just wondering if I should upgrade my headphone amp from a stock MF X-CAN v2. I could go the XLR amp route, as the Esoteric has stereo XLR outputs, or I could try some upgrades to my X-CAN amp. Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again!
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Post by Bootzilla on May 9, 2008 3:22:55 GMT
Bootzilla, although I love the X-Can V2 it sure is not in the same price category of the Esoteric or the PS power conditioner. However you can make the X-Can V2 much better by getting the full PinkFloyd kit and one of his Little Pinkie PSU's. BTW, if you get the kit make sure you order the better volume pot, Jalco jack, and a set of heat sinks. Now if you really want to explore a much better amp with a matching much larger price I would suggest you look into Eddie Current's upcoming amp. As an alternative you could consider the Pete Millet amp being sold by Todd the Vynil Junkie. These amps sell for $2,000 and $6,000 respectively. So they better be better than the V2. HeadRoom also makes nice SS amps starting at $1,500 with no dac built in vs. the tube amps that I mentioned earlier. I arrived to the $1,500 by putting the best amp module and adding a beefier psu. You should check their website. However the best recomendation I can make is for you to attend a meet so you can hear some amps and thus make a better decission. I see you are in the USA, what part if I may ask. Good evening, mrarroyo, and thanks for the response/info! I live in Northern New England and would enjoy attending a meet if there were one in my area. I was familiar with the HeadRoom amps but I did not know about the others you mentioned, so thanks for introducing me to those models. I am not planning to spend a bundle on my headphone amplification right now, as I am mostly satisfied with the stock MF X-CAN v2. (Perhaps I am blissfully ignorant of a what an expensive headphone amp can do.) I recently acquired the Denon cans and have been blown away by their sound as well as their comfort (as an eyeglasses wearer, the Sennheiser HD580 vice grip could be quite uncomfortable). Hence, I am looking for amplification that mates well with the Denon's, which as you may know have a very low impedance rating of 25 Ohms. The X-CAN v2 seemingly drives the Denon's with ease, as I can barely turn the volume pot above 9 o'clock. Maybe the way to go is to try some upgrades to the X-CAN v2? I do not presently own a soldering gun, although I am prepared to get one and do some soldering if need be. Do you think I would realize a meaningful benefit if I got a Little Pinkie V3i PSU and the Pink Floyd 6H23P replacement valves? I would feel more comfortable with those upgrades initially, before I attempted any soldering. Thanks again for the insights!
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rickcr42
Fully Modded
Rest in peace my good friend.
Posts: 4,514
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Post by rickcr42 on May 11, 2008 11:23:04 GMT
be aware that having an XLR output/input may mean one of three things 1-an interface stricly for using balanced cables over long runs (differential inputs cancel out common mode signals with noise and hum being common mode signals ) so while the connection is balanced the actual audio circuitry is single ended 2-a means to connect mixed-topology audio devices so for instance a single ended preamp>single ended to balanced interface>balanced line>balanced input amplifier 3-interconnecting "fully balanced" equipment.That is gear having both a positive and a negative signal path ending in a balanced transducer.In headphones that would mean TWO headphone cables (one for the "+" signal,one for the "-" signal) or with speakers one half the amp driving the "+" terminal and the other half the "-" speaker terminal. done wrong you can actually introduce hum and/or noise and in some cases overdrive an input due to the increase in voltage drive (true balanced device to a balanced input single ended device) so you must KNOW what you are trying to acheive before diving in blindly
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Post by Bootzilla on May 11, 2008 21:15:04 GMT
Bootzilla, IMO the Russian tubes do bring the V2 up a notch or two. Ditto for the Little Pinkie PSU. Being in northern England you are relatively close (at least compared with me) to PinkFLoyd (Mike). So why don't you send Mike a PM on doing the full blown upgrades to your V2. IMO that will keep you happy for many moons to come. Thanks for the post and suggestions. (NOTE: I am in northern NEW England, USA.) I should have mentioned in my original post that I also have a Ray Samuels Audio Emmeline XP-7 headphone amp (with OPA627AP op amps). I am experimenting with it and the Denon cans right now and so far I like the results I am getting. Therefore, I might hold off on upgrading the X-CAN v2 for the time being and use the XP-7 as my single-ended amp while I explore the balanced amp option.
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Post by Bootzilla on May 11, 2008 21:20:54 GMT
be aware that having an XLR output/input may mean one of three things 1-an interface stricly for using balanced cables over long runs (differential inputs cancel out common mode signals with noise and hum being common mode signals ) so while the connection is balanced the actual audio circuitry is single ended 2-a means to connect mixed-topology audio devices so for instance a single ended preamp>single ended to balanced interface>balanced line>balanced input amplifier 3-interconnecting "fully balanced" equipment.That is gear having both a positive and a negative signal path ending in a balanced transducer.In headphones that would mean TWO headphone cables (one for the "+" signal,one for the "-" signal) or with speakers one half the amp driving the "+" terminal and the other half the "-" speaker terminal. done wrong you can actually introduce hum and/or noise and in some cases overdrive an input due to the increase in voltage drive (true balanced device to a balanced input single ended device) so you must KNOW what you are trying to acheive before diving in blindly Thanks for that very helpful discussion. So, are you saying that if I connect the (what I believe to be) fully balanced Esoteric DV-60 universal player to a fully balanced headphone amp but then connect Denon cans to the amp with a standard 1/4" plug, I would not realize any benefit from the balanced connection between the Esoteric and the amp and that I might actually end up with worse sound then if I had kept everything single-ended? If that is even a possibility then it is not worth the risk, hassle, or expense, as I am generally very happy with the sound from my two single-ended headphone amps. Thanks again.
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Post by Bootzilla on May 12, 2008 1:41:03 GMT
Bootzilla, get two (2) the AD797 op-amps to try on your RSA amp. Thanks, I remember shooting out the AD797 with the OPA627AP using the RSA XP-7 and my Senn HD-580's. I preferred the OPA627AP at that time, but I haven't rolled the AD797's back in since I got my Denon's. I might try the AD797's with the Denon's when I get a chance, but the OPA627AP's sound great right now and I am not sure I want to mess with success. What do you like about the AD797? It's been a while since I've listened to it and I've forgotten my impressions of it (other than that the OPA627AP was my favorite of the 1/2 dozen or so op amps I tried (including the AD797) at the time).
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Post by Bootzilla on May 18, 2008 21:24:27 GMT
Bootzilla, get two (2) the AD797 op-amps to try on your RSA amp. I located and re-installed my pair of AD797's and you're right, they sound great! Thanks for reminding me about these excellent op amps.
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